gunsnewing wrote:nixluva wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:ATrain wrote:I agree 10,000%. He should be welcomed to continue as an assistant though
gunsnewing wrote:Amazing when was the last time a Knicks coach had a stretch of 18-6 against tough teams oh wait JVG
I wouldn't mind JVG if he'd like to come back.
That 18-6 was awesome but the loss to Cleveland let me know everything I needed to know.
1 really bad game? How about the losses to the 2 losses each to the Raptors & bucks? Losses to the bobcats, hornets, wizards, cavs, suns, rockets, nuggets, warriors, Nets? All under Dantoni that helped bury the team and cement a 7th seed 1st round matchup with the best team in the NBA?
I can bet that if Melo had played worth a damn all year that it would've made a huge difference in those games. The team got back to .500 and Melo promptly destroyed the momentum they had when he came back!! KILLED IT DEAD!!! 2-8 when Melo came back. Then Melo decides to play hard and the team goes on a win streak, but the offense devolves into ISO Melo and we see that we have a real problem going forward.
Melo wasn't trying early in the season when he put up a few 30+ point games before the risk injury?
Jacking up shots isn't necessarily trying to play team ball and win. He only risked injury cuz he wasn't in great shape which was his own fault. Basically everything that happened to Melo was his own doing. He can't lay blame on anyone else for his failure to lead his team to winning the Div. Title this year. We were only a few wins short of doing that so all those AWFUL games he played for most of the season is what ultimately killed the teams chances. People want to lay it on MDA, but MDA put the ball in his hands and said lead this team!!! No coach can bestow more opportunity to a player than that.
You don't have to dig very deep to know why this team didn't win more games this year. This is why:
MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
Jan 35.6 8.3-21.1 .393 1.4-4.4 .311 5.4-6.8 .789 6.7 4.6 0.4 1.3 2.4 3.4 23.3
Feb 31.5 6.1-15.4 .398 0.6-2.3 .278 3.6-4.4 .829 4.0 3.4 0.5 0.8 2.4 2.1 16.5
Mar 32.1 6.7-16.2 .415 0.9-3.3 .268 5.1-6.5 .782 6.3 3.0 0.5 1.3 3.0 2.3 19.4
You can add in that Melo's inability to succeed while also raising the level of play of his teammates is another reason. He really never did anything to help STAT succeed or Tyson for that matter. For a guy that has the ball as much as he does he has the obligation to make sure his teammates thrive as well. That's all MDA was trying to teach him. That was the whole idea of learning how to get the ball in the post and look for his teammates too. But you've got to TRULY WANT to grow as a player and to accept new things that will help you as a leader. Melo balked at it and finally got his way and now as a team we're stuck in LIMBO. Our other 2 big money players can't thrive playing Melo ball and we can't win that way either.
Woody bet it all on Melo and it came up snake eyes. He should've tried to make Melo see the benefits of team ball at the same time as giving him some ISO.
If there are no better options, such as Phil Jackson, I'm fine with Woodson coming back next year. But we have to have reasonable goals that must be achieved. The Knicks should be no less than a 3-4 seed and should win, at least, a first round series. Any less than that and I don't think Woodson deserves two years. No excuses, we need accountability. If this team is that good, then it needs to happen next year. If we're not that good, then break up the team and rebuild, but pick one.
Solace wrote:If there are no better options, such as Phil Jackson, I'm fine with Woodson coming back next year. But we have to have reasonable goals that must be achieved. The Knicks should be no less than a 3-4 seed and should win, at least, a first round series. Any less than that and I don't think Woodson deserves two years. No excuses, we need accountability. If this team is that good, then it needs to happen next year. If we're not that good, then break up the team and rebuild, but pick one.
No question about the goal will be the 3-4 seed and no doubt in my mind we will be there next year with a full training camp and lin/shump healthy
nixluva wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:ATrain wrote:I agree 10,000%. He should be welcomed to continue as an assistant though
gunsnewing wrote:Amazing when was the last time a Knicks coach had a stretch of 18-6 against tough teams oh wait JVG
I wouldn't mind JVG if he'd like to come back.
That 18-6 was awesome but the loss to Cleveland let me know everything I needed to know.
1 really bad game? How about the losses to the 2 losses each to the Raptors & bucks? Losses to the bobcats, hornets, wizards, cavs, suns, rockets, nuggets, warriors, Nets? All under Dantoni that helped bury the team and cement a 7th seed 1st round matchup with the best team in the NBA?
I can bet that if Melo had played worth a damn all year that it would've made a huge difference in those games. The team got back to .500 and Melo promptly destroyed the momentum they had when he came back!! KILLED IT DEAD!!! 2-8 when Melo came back. Then Melo decides to play hard and the team goes on a win streak, but the offense devolves into ISO Melo and we see that we have a real problem going forward.
If the coach don't coach worth a DAMN and he don't talk to da playas den da playas don't look like day give a damn cause day don't know what hell do give a damn about
Question:
What was the schedule before he came back and what was the schedule after huh? What? I didn't hear you! Can you say it louder?
Go ahead, run away - run Nixluva run!
mrKnickShot wrote:nixluva wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:ATrain wrote:I agree 10,000%. He should be welcomed to continue as an assistant though
gunsnewing wrote:Amazing when was the last time a Knicks coach had a stretch of 18-6 against tough teams oh wait JVG
I wouldn't mind JVG if he'd like to come back.
That 18-6 was awesome but the loss to Cleveland let me know everything I needed to know.
1 really bad game? How about the losses to the 2 losses each to the Raptors & bucks? Losses to the bobcats, hornets, wizards, cavs, suns, rockets, nuggets, warriors, Nets? All under Dantoni that helped bury the team and cement a 7th seed 1st round matchup with the best team in the NBA?
I can bet that if Melo had played worth a damn all year that it would've made a huge difference in those games. The team got back to .500 and Melo promptly destroyed the momentum they had when he came back!! KILLED IT DEAD!!! 2-8 when Melo came back. Then Melo decides to play hard and the team goes on a win streak, but the offense devolves into ISO Melo and we see that we have a real problem going forward.
If the coach don't coach worth a DAMN and he don't talk to da playas den da playas don't look like day give a damn cause day don't know what hell do give a damn about
Question:
What was the schedule before he came back and what was the schedule after huh? What? I didn't hear you! Can you say it louder?
Go ahead, run away - run Nixluva run!
WTF are you talking about? Did Melo play like ISH when he came back or not??? The teams defense which had been stellar thru Linsanity and much of the year dropped from only allowing 93ppg during Linsanity to 110 when Melo came back, then when Melo decided to actually give a Max Effort the day MDA resigned the team when back to only allowing 91ppg during Woody's coaching tenure. This myth that the team only started playing D after MDA left is utter NONSENSE!!! Stick that in your pipe.
Under MDA when things were going well they defended at a high level and everyone was involved offensively. That is how this team needs to work in the future. If they hire Woody he MUST figure out a way to make sure they play team ball most of the time and rely less on Melo Ball except when it makes sense for him to take the lead.
franco12 wrote:I appreciate what he did during the regular season. Truly impressive.And he had a lot to deal with this series- injuries and all.
And Miami simply outclassed us talent wise.
But they just ripped us apart every game, like the knicks had no idea how to do basic things like play defense.
Phil Jackson for 2 years- that is the window with this squad- and I would offer him $10M+ per year.
Woodson can be option C.
Papabear Says
Getting Phil Jackson won't come because the Knicks do not have the components for a championship team. We don't have the pieces. When phil Jackson had the Bulls and the Lakers there were probably 10 coaches in the league could win a ring with Michael Jordan and Kobe. He had the best players. Coming here would ruin his reputation.
JamesKPolk wrote:CrushAlot wrote:JamesKPolk wrote:He's coming back. It's over. Dolan runs this show and his new yes-man (Grunwald) is giving Dolan A+ grades to Woodson.
Grunwald brought in Lin, Novak, Davis, Smith, Jeffries, amnestied Chauncey to get Tyson and brought in Woodson as the defensive assistant. All sound basketball moves in my opinion. What makes him a yes man? Is it because he is a low profile guy?
Davis and Smith sucked here. Not sure why he's praised for those moves.
Not sure why he deserves all the credit for Lin and Novak either, since I highly doubt he saw them being major pieces to this team.
Jeffries was coming back regardless.
The only legit move he made was for Tyson Chandler. The jury is still out on Grunwald. The majority of this team is still Walsh's.
Papabear Says
You guys really make me laugh. There are teams out there just waiting for us to pass on Woodson and they will fight t grab him up
It's truly amazing that these fans keep bringing up MDA to justify what Woodson did and award him the contract. I don't get it. MDA was UNDER contract and there was one set of arguments to fire him or not. Good or bad the team gave him his contract to coach his style of basketball knowing what it was. Then everyone and their mother turned on him for doing just that. Now we have a completely different situation of NOT HAVING a coach under contract and HAVING the opportunity to choose one.
The same fans want to give it Woodson because of 18-5 regular season record and they act like the world of coaching is limited to PJax, MDA and Woodson. So we give him the job, then what? 3 more years of coaching one side of the ball? Because a handful of idiots need to avenge hiring MDA by making an equal and opposite dumb move?
People who wantEd to award the job to everyone from Mark Jackson, to Avery ajohnson to every other wannabe coach just to get rid of MDA, now can't wait long enough to look at other coaches?
Keep making the same type of bad decision when hiring a coach and the expect different results each time. Like Dolan, like fans. Stupid is as stupid does.
I like what Woody did during the regular season. My problem with him is he forgets to run plays for other people besides Melo. He is not good making adjustments in the playoffs. We made the same mistakes every game with the exception being that melo got the ball on the wing a little more. The team had no idea how to use a damn zone! The one thing that can be kryptonite to the heat and we could not use it. Don't get me wrong, if a clear upgrade is not available I would love to have woody back. I just hope woody grows as a coach.
nixluva wrote:gunsnewing wrote:nixluva wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Vmart wrote:ATrain wrote:I agree 10,000%. He should be welcomed to continue as an assistant though
gunsnewing wrote:Amazing when was the last time a Knicks coach had a stretch of 18-6 against tough teams oh wait JVG
I wouldn't mind JVG if he'd like to come back.
That 18-6 was awesome but the loss to Cleveland let me know everything I needed to know.
1 really bad game? How about the losses to the 2 losses each to the Raptors & bucks? Losses to the bobcats, hornets, wizards, cavs, suns, rockets, nuggets, warriors, Nets? All under Dantoni that helped bury the team and cement a 7th seed 1st round matchup with the best team in the NBA?
I can bet that if Melo had played worth a damn all year that it would've made a huge difference in those games. The team got back to .500 and Melo promptly destroyed the momentum they had when he came back!! KILLED IT DEAD!!! 2-8 when Melo came back. Then Melo decides to play hard and the team goes on a win streak, but the offense devolves into ISO Melo and we see that we have a real problem going forward.
Melo wasn't trying early in the season when he put up a few 30+ point games before the risk injury?
Jacking up shots isn't necessarily trying to play team ball and win. He only risked injury cuz he wasn't in great shape which was his own fault. Basically everything that happened to Melo was his own doing. He can't lay blame on anyone else for his failure to lead his team to winning the Div. Title this year. We were only a few wins short of doing that so all those AWFUL games he played for most of the season is what ultimately killed the teams chances. People want to lay it on MDA, but MDA put the ball in his hands and said lead this team!!! No coach can bestow more opportunity to a player than that.
You don't have to dig very deep to know why this team didn't win more games this year. This is why:
MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
Jan 35.6 8.3-21.1 .393 1.4-4.4 .311 5.4-6.8 .789 6.7 4.6 0.4 1.3 2.4 3.4 23.3
Feb 31.5 6.1-15.4 .398 0.6-2.3 .278 3.6-4.4 .829 4.0 3.4 0.5 0.8 2.4 2.1 16.5
Mar 32.1 6.7-16.2 .415 0.9-3.3 .268 5.1-6.5 .782 6.3 3.0 0.5 1.3 3.0 2.3 19.4
You can add in that Melo's inability to succeed while also raising the level of play of his teammates is another reason. He really never did anything to help STAT succeed or Tyson for that matter. For a guy that has the ball as much as he does he has the obligation to make sure his teammates thrive as well. That's all MDA was trying to teach him. That was the whole idea of learning how to get the ball in the post and look for his teammates too. But you've got to TRULY WANT to grow as a player and to accept new things that will help you as a leader. Melo balked at it and finally got his way and now as a team we're stuck in LIMBO. Our other 2 big money players can't thrive playing Melo ball and we can't win that way either.
Woody bet it all on Melo and it came up snake eyes. He should've tried to make Melo see the benefits of team ball at the same time as giving him some ISO.
Me and you were having a pretty-good back forth in the other thread where we were discussing similar issues. Why not address what I said to you in that thread? You are alwasy quik to call people out for not responding to your post....
MSG3 wrote:1) Phil Jackson
2) Jeff Van GundyQuitter
3) Jerry Sloan
4) Mike WoodsonThis should be our options in order. Staying with JR, not finding a way to get Novak open and that loss to Cleveland are unforgivable.
Not sold on Woodson. They have to at least try to get jackson. After that, I would go for Sloan and JVG. I think JVG is the right coach for this team, it's too bad that he will never get the job.
OasisBU wrote:MSG3 wrote:1) Phil Jackson
2) Jeff Van GundyQuitter
3) Rick Carlisle
4) Jerry Sloan
5) Mike WoodsonThis should be our options in order. Staying with JR, not finding a way to get Novak open and that loss to Cleveland are unforgivable.
Fixed
Dont worry about Woodson. He's the 2nd coach to have a problem with Melo, so you can expect him to get fired sometime next year when he cant motivate the star player. Then we will have Woody to blame for next year's 7th seed.
fishmike wrote:Dont worry about Woodson. He's the 2nd coach to have a problem with Melo, so you can expect him to get fired sometime next year when he cant motivate the star player. Then we will have Woody to blame for next year's 7th seed.
this is why I'm not crazy about Melo and Stat endorsing Woodson.
Melo really needs someone to challenge him. We can talk about how fit or fat he is, but its the mental part of the game he and stat need help with.
And I don't think Woodson found a way to use both Melo and Stat effectively.
At least with Phil Jackson, none of the above will be questions. If Phil can't make it work, its Melo, not the coach.
I think Woodson is the right guy for the job. His 18-6 regular season record is still over 1/3 of the season. He had the team playing hard, playing defense and holding the team accountable. Considering he also didn't have a full roster for most of the run says a lot as far as I'm concerned. I think Woody with a full training camp and a full roster gets us to 50+ wins next season and a much higher playoff seed then we were this year.
fishmike wrote:Dont worry about Woodson. He's the 2nd coach to have a problem with Melo, so you can expect him to get fired sometime next year when he cant motivate the star player. Then we will have Woody to blame for next year's 7th seed.
Actually he is the third, since George Karl had admitted publicly to feeling much better (and the Nuggets playing much better) since they traded Melo away to the Knicks. I guess no more headaches.
I think if Phil wanted the job, you would have to get him. I think Melo would be great in the triangle and even Amare should be able to make it work. That being said, I am prefectly comfortable with Woodson coming back. I honestly believe that if this team had Lin and Shumpert for this entire series, we could have beaten Miami or at least taken it to 7 games. Woodson is a solid coach. We need to get our team healthy and add depth. Our biggest need is not a new coach.
Clean wrote:I like what Woody did during the regular season. My problem with him is he forgets to run plays for other people besides Melo. He is not good making adjustments in the playoffs. We made the same mistakes every game with the exception being that melo got the ball on the wing a little more. The team had no idea how to use a damn zone! The one thing that can be kryptonite to the heat and we could not use it. Don't get me wrong, if a clear upgrade is not available I would love to have woody back. I just hope woody grows as a coach.
Run plays for who Novak? Who can even get open after a screen because he is not quick enough against a lightning quick miami defense? Lin's penetration will help a little.
Run plays for Landry Fields?
Smith had a ton of plays run for him and he shot 3-15!
So who exactly are we running plays for other than Melo, Amare, Smith and Chandler on occasion???
ATrain wrote:franco12 wrote:JamesKPolk wrote:He's coming back. It's over. Dolan runs this show and his new yes-man (Grunwald) is giving Dolan A+ grades to Woodson.
this is the other reason I don't want Woodson back.
I'll root for him, and this team for a while longer- but Dolan is really a test of fan loyalty.
He really really is. He better be careful if he doesn't want to lose fans to them Brooklyn boys.
Hey, no. Whatever happened to that true knicks fans going on? Our player suck, we support them. Our coach suck, we support them. Our owner suck, we support them. Being a Knicks fan means blind faith, at least that's what many say. 
Woodson coming back would just lead to another first round exit. Granted the deck was stacked against us in this series but we were simply outclassed from a strategic perspective. Miami came into this and made loads of adjustments against us and we kept running the same plays for Melo.
My choice for coach would be Lionel Hollins - same type of personnel in Memphis and i'll take being as good as the Griz are. That would make us 2nd or 3rd best team in the East. If not Hollins then Sloan but I'm guessing that's a long shot.
Phil Jackson would work out just as bad as Larry Brown. We do not have one person who can understand the triangle let alone 5 guys who can run it.
