Knicks · Would you guys trade Stoudemire for Joe Johnson? (page 2)

You trade for Joe because he immediately helps the team spacing. He also can create his own shot.

I see zero reason why Atlanta does that deal without getting a SG back in return though.

Joe Johnson was great in Phoenix and had a great all round game, as a 3rd option.
He became the alpha dog in Atlanta and I am not sure how much is left in his tank.
If he was a Knick, I am not sure if he can still penetrate/defend like he once did, but i think he could fit much better than ATM.

Tyson
Melo
JJ # 6
Iman

with Lin, JR, Novak, or STRETCH 4, a athletic 3, post player 4, or ANYTHING could work, maybe even TD, because of his JJ ball handling skills.

I do not think this is a no brainer, with his age, and that extra year, but it is something I would look in to if I was Grunweld.
ATM does not work, they eat each other space up...

If I had to choose between Rashard Lewis or expiring, *in a sense tanking this year*, to go under cap or trade for JJ for Amare, I think we have to take the gamble n roll the dice....
And no one is going to give us a lottery pick for Stat with an expiring either.
Adding Teague in to the trade, without losing a 1st rounder or Iman, is telling Atlanta to hang up the phone on us.

Especially if we have both our exemptions to use, I prefer to go in to training camp with the roster that we could develop early on the season, not in the middle of the season.
Keeping Lin, Novak, and JR Smith, and having both exemptions are possible now...

Amare for JJ6? Nope.

Melo wants the ball all the time, now JJ6 will want the same neither of then ahold or actually needs to get it.

AnubisADL wrote:You trade for Joe because he immediately helps the team spacing. He also can create his own shot.

I see zero reason why Atlanta does that deal without getting a SG back in return though.

That's the main reason i would do it. We have no spacing in our starting lineup and JJ is one of the most underrated shooters in the game. Maybe Amare and Fields for JJ? That would give them back a semi-SG. Obviously we can't deal Shumpert in that type of deal.

helloharv wrote:Am I one of the only people in the world that think Joe Johnson is a very good player? I don't know if he fits in with our team any better than Stat but the guy can flat out shoot !

You answered your own question. He's a better fit for the simple fact that he can shoot it very well. He was excellent off the ball in PHX during his early years. He hit his prime in ATL and was the man and now he appears to be on the tale end of his prime. Maybe he can revert back to his early days of playing on the wing and really bring something to the lineup that is sorely lacking. I think he would welcome being a secondary guy behind Melo, and alongside Lin and Chandler for a chance to go deep into the playoffs.

i dont understand what some people want out of Stat.
If he is a Knick, he will continue to be the weak link defensively, while hurting his own game, Melo, TC and the Knicks with poor spacing and lack of skills
They do not compliment each other while they make the most money on the team, so they can play together, we had the whole season and a taste of the HEAT to observe this...
Exchanging age vets at this point is about as fair as I think it gets.

Will there really be another team willing to take on Joe Johnson's MAX contract?
It has to be a team looking for a 3rd piece to contend.
Not many? Maybe...

Memphis ZBO + Mayo for Joe Johnson??
Boston picks and *since they under the cap* fillers, while retaining their current core at a slight discount?

I am not sure if Atlanta have any interest in Amare either?
But with Teague, a speedy PG, looking like he has improved his ability to penetrate, it just might work with STAT.
AFter next season, Teague will be a restricted FA.

By doing this deal, I am expecting them to deal Josh Smith or/and AL Horford for young players, draft picks, because they still have good value...
With Josh Smith, he is a player based on athleticism, which will be in a contract year, next season.
AL Horford is not a center, he is a PF, capable of playing center position vs weak opponents.

Atlanta has peaked out with Joe Johnson and are reluctant to acquire additional salary, and its downhill from here.
I look for them to do make some changes this off season and can actually see Amare working there....

Do the salaries actually match up? What is the length of each contract? Would the deal be approved? Would it

Joe Johnson

$19,752,645

$21,466,718

$23,180,790

$24,894,863

Amare

$18,217,705

$19,948,799

$21,679,893

$23,410,988

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.h...

I clearly do not believe that the Amare and Melo pairing works with Tyson Chandler...
Tyson Chandler is DPY for a reason, so its between Melo or Amare, and how to fill the rest of the pieces together.
These 3 players make too much $ and we don't have the ability to add the talent we need, while they do not compliment each other TOGETHER!
Early in the season, I was put on full blast by people here, requesting a trade for Amare for KG, and for asking Amare to be a 6th man...

I don't want to waste time...
I have seen enough last year, this year, with all 3 hurt, and I watch a lot of Knick games....

1) I want a decision to be made on the coach their philosophy,
2) have the coach work it out with management, targeting certain type of players...
3) create a philosophy/blueprint in which to beat the HEAT, Bulls, OKC, Spurs
4) let it be known what our roster will be like
5) so players know what to expect and what they need to do to work on during the summer
6) finding the players that compliment each other that are attainable to follow the system, thru trading Amare or Melo

RonRon wrote:I clearly do not believe that the Amare and Melo pairing works with Tyson Chandler...
Tyson Chandler is DPY for a reason, so its between Melo or Amare, and how to fill the rest of the pieces together.
These 3 players make too much $ and we don't have the ability to add the talent we need, while they do not compliment each other TOGETHER!

I am not sold on the fact that Chandler, Melo, Amare don't work together. I am sold on the fact that those 3 do need a very heady PG/system to make it work.

How can anyone NOT do this? Just because Joe's on the books 1 more year? I mean if there was a better offer maybe but Joe is a bonafide all star and Amare's situation doesn't look good at all. Even if he did return to the form of 10-11 there is a chance he could be re-injured plus he hasn't meshed with Melo at all and doesn't seem to know how to play next a center who clogs the paint.

tj23 wrote:How can anyone NOT do this? Just because Joe's on the books 1 more year? I mean if there was a better offer maybe but Joe is a bonafide all star and Amare's situation doesn't look good at all. Even if he did return to the form of 10-11 there is a chance he could be re-injured plus he hasn't meshed with Melo at all and doesn't seem to know how to play next a center who clogs the paint.

I don't think he truly should have been a #1 go to guy, he did have great skills though.
He wanted the $ and got some nice contracts, but his game would have fit really nice as a 3rd option.
He is much older now but he still has more post moves than STAT, is an average defender, and hit wide open shots.

I do not want a Joe Johnson playing taking bad shots or anyone, even Melo or JR Smith, on a consistent basis.
I prefer to play a style that would help us win games, not achieve STATS or individual numbers.
I am still not sold if Melo understand this, maybe because he has thoughts of opting out of his final year to pull a Joe Johnson like deal on us, rather than WINNING a ring.

RonRon wrote:

tj23 wrote:How can anyone NOT do this? Just because Joe's on the books 1 more year? I mean if there was a better offer maybe but Joe is a bonafide all star and Amare's situation doesn't look good at all. Even if he did return to the form of 10-11 there is a chance he could be re-injured plus he hasn't meshed with Melo at all and doesn't seem to know how to play next a center who clogs the paint.

I don't think he truly should have been a #1 go to guy, he did have great skills though.
He wanted the $ and got some nice contracts, but his game would have fit really nice as a 3rd option.
He is much older now but he still has more post moves than STAT, is an average defender, and hit wide open shots.

I do not want a Joe Johnson playing taking bad shots or anyone, even Melo or JR Smith, on a consistent basis.
I prefer to play a style that would help us win games, not achieve STATS or individual numbers.
I am still not sold if Melo understand this, maybe because he has thoughts of opting out of his final year to pull a Joe Johnson like deal on us, rather than WINNING a ring.

if Joe remembers his time in Phoenix, then he could be a great compliment to Melo. In Phoenix he was neither the 1st or 2nd option and was very effective for them.

martin wrote:

RonRon wrote:I clearly do not believe that the Amare and Melo pairing works with Tyson Chandler...
Tyson Chandler is DPY for a reason, so its between Melo or Amare, and how to fill the rest of the pieces together.
These 3 players make too much $ and we don't have the ability to add the talent we need, while they do not compliment each other TOGETHER!

I am not sold on the fact that Chandler, Melo, Amare don't work together. I am sold on the fact that those 3 do need a very heady PG/system to make it work.

agree 100%.

Does Woodson and Lin have that in them? Can they manage Melo's ego? Cause when the ball isnt run through him, HIS way he doesnt play hard. He showed that w/ MDA and it cost us a better seeding in the playoffs.

I havent seen enough to expect anything more than what we saw this year.

Well Joe J has the most absurd contract in the league which he will never ever come close to justifying. He has not come close to justifying it yet.

Amare was GREAT his first season as a Knick and was clearly hampered by injuries this season. Even then, if you compare their last two full seasons I'd say Amare has been better than Joe J overall.

It seems people on this board are always looking for the next great trade or hire and show ZERO patience. This current Knick team has not even played on full 82 game season together under the same coach. There is a lot of room for growth and improvement if we simply get all our players healthy at the start of the season with a good coach and full training camp.

If the Knicks can't get it done next season then perhaps it would be reasonable to entertain these types of trades.

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

RonRon wrote:I clearly do not believe that the Amare and Melo pairing works with Tyson Chandler...
Tyson Chandler is DPY for a reason, so its between Melo or Amare, and how to fill the rest of the pieces together.
These 3 players make too much $ and we don't have the ability to add the talent we need, while they do not compliment each other TOGETHER!

I am not sold on the fact that Chandler, Melo, Amare don't work together. I am sold on the fact that those 3 do need a very heady PG/system to make it work.

agree 100%.

Does Woodson and Lin have that in them? Can they manage Melo's ego? Cause when the ball isnt run through him, HIS way he doesnt play hard. He showed that w/ MDA and it cost us a better seeding in the playoffs.

I havent seen enough to expect anything more than what we saw this year.

.........................not worth it. Will see next season.

No. Just no. Let Iman develop his game at the 2. Plus he doesn't fit personality wise. Out team gets AMPED up, laughs, jokes, clowns, showboats... and Joe Johnson looks like someone's angry uncle that just stepped in dog sh*t.

yes. But I'd rather trade Amar'e for Josh Smith

SupremeCommander wrote:yes. But I'd rather trade Amar'e for Josh Smith

I was thinking about a trade like that... I'd probably do it. The defense would be top notch.

I am starting to think this may be a decent trade for both teams

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:yes. But I'd rather trade Amar'e for Josh Smith

I was thinking about a trade like that... I'd probably do it. The defense would be top notch.

Why would Atlanta not laugh us out of town at that suggestion? Smith at this point is better in every facet of the game.

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

RonRon wrote:I clearly do not believe that the Amare and Melo pairing works with Tyson Chandler...
Tyson Chandler is DPY for a reason, so its between Melo or Amare, and how to fill the rest of the pieces together.
These 3 players make too much $ and we don't have the ability to add the talent we need, while they do not compliment each other TOGETHER!

I am not sold on the fact that Chandler, Melo, Amare don't work together. I am sold on the fact that those 3 do need a very heady PG/system to make it work.

agree 100%.

Does Woodson and Lin have that in them? Can they manage Melo's ego? Cause when the ball isnt run through him, HIS way he doesnt play hard. He showed that w/ MDA and it cost us a better seeding in the playoffs.

I havent seen enough to expect anything more than what we saw this year.

Lin might have it, Woodson definitely does not. This is why I am having such trouble with Woodson. I love that he made our defense better, but I doubt he is the right coach for this roster. He will go back to Iso Melo and STAT wil average 8-12 puts a game with few opportunities and Tyson will have no offense. Forget system, the guy can't deal with the complexity of calling plays for more than one player. That's pretty sad.