Knicks · Would you guys trade Stoudemire for Joe Johnson? (page 3)

loweyecue @ 5/18/2012 1:48 PM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
RonRon wrote:I clearly do not believe that the Amare and Melo pairing works with Tyson Chandler...
Tyson Chandler is DPY for a reason, so its between Melo or Amare, and how to fill the rest of the pieces together.
These 3 players make too much $ and we don't have the ability to add the talent we need, while they do not compliment each other TOGETHER!

I am not sold on the fact that Chandler, Melo, Amare don't work together. I am sold on the fact that those 3 do need a very heady PG/system to make it work.


agree 100%.

Does Woodson and Lin have that in them? Can they manage Melo's ego? Cause when the ball isnt run through him, HIS way he doesnt play hard. He showed that w/ MDA and it cost us a better seeding in the playoffs.

I havent seen enough to expect anything more than what we saw this year.

Lin might have it, Woodson definitely does not. This is why I am having such trouble with Woodson. I love that he made our defense better, but I doubt he is the right coach for this roster. He will go back to Iso Melo and STAT wil average 8-12 puts a game with few opportunities and Tyson will have no offense. Forget system, the guy can't deal with the complexity of calling plays for more than one player. That's pretty sad.

DurzoBlint @ 5/18/2012 2:16 PM
loweyecue wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
RonRon wrote:I clearly do not believe that the Amare and Melo pairing works with Tyson Chandler...
Tyson Chandler is DPY for a reason, so its between Melo or Amare, and how to fill the rest of the pieces together.
These 3 players make too much $ and we don't have the ability to add the talent we need, while they do not compliment each other TOGETHER!

I am not sold on the fact that Chandler, Melo, Amare don't work together. I am sold on the fact that those 3 do need a very heady PG/system to make it work.


agree 100%.

Does Woodson and Lin have that in them? Can they manage Melo's ego? Cause when the ball isnt run through him, HIS way he doesnt play hard. He showed that w/ MDA and it cost us a better seeding in the playoffs.

I havent seen enough to expect anything more than what we saw this year.

Lin might have it, Woodson definitely does not. This is why I am having such trouble with Woodson. I love that he made our defense better, but I doubt he is the right coach for this roster. He will go back to Iso Melo and STAT wil average 8-12 puts a game with few opportunities and Tyson will have no offense. Forget system, the guy can't deal with the complexity of calling plays for more than one player. That's pretty sad.

he only went ISO Melo when it became obvious that no one outside of him and Novak could hit a shot. What else was he supposed to do with Landry Brick Fingers, Amare the Mannequin, Imam, can't shoot but never saw a shot he'd turn down and a revolving door of old useless point guards?

When Lin was running the offense, there was no Iso Melo. When Chauncy was running it there was no Iso Melo. Iso Melo is the result of not having a starting caliber point guard.

SupremeCommander @ 5/18/2012 4:36 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:yes. But I'd rather trade Amar'e for Josh Smith

I was thinking about a trade like that... I'd probably do it. The defense would be top notch.

Why would Atlanta not laugh us out of town at that suggestion? Smith at this point is better in every facet of the game.

I don't agree... but let's say Smith is better at every facet of the game. That still doesn't compensate for the fact the Josh Smith has a history of stringing together one boneheaded play after another. Also, Joe and Amar'e have been proven to work. I like the possibility of the Knicks turning into a defensive juggernaut

yellowboy90 @ 5/18/2012 5:27 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:yes. But I'd rather trade Amar'e for Josh Smith

I was thinking about a trade like that... I'd probably do it. The defense would be top notch.

Why would Atlanta not laugh us out of town at that suggestion? Smith at this point is better in every facet of the game.

I don't agree... but let's say Smith is better at every facet of the game. That still doesn't compensate for the fact the Josh Smith has a history of stringing together one boneheaded play after another. Also, Joe and Amar'e have been proven to work. I like the possibility of the Knicks turning into a defensive juggernaut

Also, SMith wants out of town and would give them a better scoring option. If Woody and Smith didn't have history I would trade STAT for Smith and Williams. ATL could play STAT at the 5 and move Horford to the 4.

RonRon @ 5/18/2012 6:07 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:yes. But I'd rather trade Amar'e for Josh Smith

I was thinking about a trade like that... I'd probably do it. The defense would be top notch.

Why would Atlanta not laugh us out of town at that suggestion? Smith at this point is better in every facet of the game.

I don't agree... but let's say Smith is better at every facet of the game. That still doesn't compensate for the fact the Josh Smith has a history of stringing together one boneheaded play after another. Also, Joe and Amar'e have been proven to work. I like the possibility of the Knicks turning into a defensive juggernaut

its not who u prefer, Smith is in the last year of his contract, making 13.2m vs Joe Johnson( 4year max 20m).
the whole point of this trade is so they can trade Smith for Atlanta is to retain assets, while trading a bad move they made by resigning Joe Johnson to a max deal.

AnubisADL @ 5/18/2012 6:33 PM
Joe Johnson > Josh Smith

Josh Smith = PF versions of JR Smith

Josh Smith is talented but a knucklehead who makes the dumbest plays.

youngandalmostfamous @ 5/19/2012 3:43 AM
Amare is the anchor of the knicks literally and figuratively . He aint going NO WHERE!
RonRon @ 5/19/2012 4:27 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Pau or Gasol *more likely* will be broken up, their twin towers a great, except vs the new breed of the elite in OKC.
They have to get more athletic and gain speed, especially with an aging Bryant. As good as he is, he isn't the same player defensively that he once was.
Without giving up much, they added 3 solid players to their big three, core, with
l
Jordan Hill - solid double double with a pair of blocks and steals, with limited minutes of the bench, and some decent defense. He is a RFA, Lakers could lock him up for long term, at a decent price this off season. In the area of 5mill, it would be a nice offer with the new CBA.

Josh McRoberts who I think deserves some playing time, he probably can start for many teams, and would be much more solid than Amare has been for us.

Ramon Sessions is a great player, very under rated. However, he lacks the play off experience, and is slightly intimidated by feeding Kobe, Bynum, and Gasol, rather then trying to take over at times, which would open up the game for him and the team. He added a 3point shot to his game, and with his age, penetration, could be a MLE candidate.
Lakers have the ability to target Ray Allen, Terry, Billups, Kidd, Nash, or some other players that would fall to the MLE.

I am just saying, like last summer, all the players that we think are attracted to come play in New York, are only attracted by the $.
The way we played ISO ball, with our lack of ball movement, with all the negative attention when we lose, make coming to New York very unattractive.
We have horrible defense, outside of Tyson Chandler, and the don't play team basketball. Melo and Amare are always out to try to get their's and lets face it, not much is left after.
For players, looking for the opportunity to generate stats for their next contract, it makes it less attractive to come over.
This is where I really want to trade Amare, I don't think he meshes with Tyson Chandler, or Melo, which both are suited for half court games.
It is never going to work, if our Center and PF, both aren't post options, and are not good shooters to spread the floor.
Amare is constantly getting exploited defensiveley, where Tyson Chandler has to help and guard multiple positions.
We just don't have the ability to acquire the players that Amare needs with 2 players making MAX.

For Amare to be "great" he is suited to play Center, with the right players to space him out, and with a running game, with athleticism, speed, and ball movement.
He will be exploited on many plays, but if we are constantly running, he will get the opportunity to use his speed and athleticism.
Needing players to space the floor, with players that are long, goood rebounders, good defenders, and great all round games.
It is a total different philosophy, from the defense, that Tyson Chandler, and many of us want to Knicks to play.
It's constantly running, that will tear down the centers, not the 20-25 minutes that a 6th man could use.
He isn't a ball hog like Melo, but he only know's how to be a good player when he is the alpha dog.
Where the offense is run through his ability to roll and take advantage of a Center defending him.

We are not in the same caliber as

OKC
Miami
Chicago
Spurs
Lakers

the players that we want to come at a discount, can get the same offer to play with these franchises.

And for teams like

Memphis
Dallas
Denver
Indiana
Philly
Boston

they are probably even more attractive before us.

RonRon @ 5/19/2012 4:42 PM
while teams make trades that a "fair" and the Laker's don't allow to be pushed around, like how the Knicks do.
Teams always want to get more value for their players through trades for us, always getting the better side of the trade.
We are constantly seem to be okay with that, and that is part of the problem, because we are looking to make $, attract fans, keep the seats full, instead of following the right
steps to build and compete for a ring.
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