Knicks · Does anyone else want to keep the Melo, Amare, Chandler & Lin group through training camp and next season? (page 1)

I would like to give this core group a full training camp under Woodson before making and big moves. IMO, the talent is there and if they have a full training camp they can do well. I agree we should add a backup PG, defensive PF (or get Jeffries involved). We should make small trades but I don't think its a good idea to break up this core group without giving them a full training camp.

I agree that this team needs another shot at it. This season sucked from the very beginning. The Summer was a disaster with both STAT and Melo having issues with their health. A fresh start with Woody as the coach could be just what they need. It helps that Melo likes him and will play for him and everyone else falls in line behind that as well. That means there's unity from top to bottom.

The real issue is what will Grunwald do??? He's the one on the hotseat cuz he's got to make something out of nothing. Will he make meaningful additions or not? Also HOW is he gonna be able to improve the team with few resources and almost no money. If Grunwald can't improve the team this summer it's gonna be a long 82 games.

Grunwald has the MLE, LLE and Vet Min to offer. Lin likely takes all of the MLE. So what does he do to fill out the rest of the roster?

Silverfuel wrote:I would like to give this core group a full training camp under Woodson before making and big moves. IMO, the talent is there and if they have a full training camp they can do well. I agree we should add a backup PG, defensive PF (or get Jeffries involved). We should make small trades but I don't think its a good idea to break up this core group without giving them a full training camp.

I agree with everything except Jeffries- to me Jorts is our backup PF and JJ2 needs to be held on to as well- I like having backup size on the bench with youth- I was suprised Woody didn't use Jorts more but I guess he didn't trust him-

Yep, yep, yep. I want them to spend their time together during this off-season more than they spend time with their wives and girlfriends. I want them to bond and actually care for each other so they will have that chemistry when they are on the court, damn it! Honestly, they were kind of just thrown in together this season. How are you going to play with someone you barely know? Especially when they were from different teams before, they were more of rivals than team mates. That's why it's called a team.

In a perfect world we could get decent value for Stoudemire, but since that is unlikely, i am very content giving this core group another season with one condition:

We must find a SG who can really shoot the basketball. Not taking anything away from Shumpert because he's a big part of the future, but as long as our core is what it is, Shumpert is better served as the 6th man. This team needs a 3-point marksman who can force teams not to double on the core players. This summer there are some decent options that include Jodie Meeks, Brandon Rush, Courtney Lee, etc. Not sure how we can land someone, but we have to. Fields is probably the one who will have to be S&T for this type of player, but it will go a long way in seeing if this team will really work.

Id love Anthony Parker. I could be wrong but I think he's a free agent who probably isn't going to get paid much.

I'd like to see what this team can do with a full camp, health, and a coach named Phil Jax.

I do not know how I feel about it. I can see it working even if STAT starts but goes to the bench early so he can start the second qtr. Things that will needed to be added is more 3 and 4/5 PnRs plus more motion backside. Also more screens to get Melo and STAT into their desired ISO areas. Make it easier for them to get into their ISO spots earlier in the clock so they can pass out if a shot/drive is not there.

Regarding Trading STAT:

Can teams Amnesty a player they traded for in year or two after the trade? If so Why wouldn't a team that is on the cusp wouldn't want to take a stab at getting STAT low and if it doesn't work out have the option to Amnesty STAT and get him off the books to create more cap space.

I could see a team like Milwaukee maybe Doing a S&T with Ilyasova plus Gooden and Udrih for STAT and Fields. For them it gets Gooden and Udrih contract if the books plus give them a Big and a semi-defensive three. They also have the opportunity if they can not make a run of Amnesting STAT and create more room instead of using it on Gooden.

yellowboy90 wrote:I do not know how I feel about it. I can see it working even if STAT starts but goes to the bench early so he can start the second qtr. Things that will needed to be added is more 3 and 4/5 PnRs plus more motion backside. Also more screens to get Melo and STAT into their desired ISO areas. Make it easier for them to get into their ISO spots earlier in the clock so they can pass out if a shot/drive is not there.

Regarding Trading STAT:

Can teams Amnesty a player they traded for in year or two after the trade? If so Why wouldn't a team that is on the cusp wouldn't want to take a stab at getting STAT low and if it doesn't work out have the option to Amnesty STAT and get him off the books to create more cap space.

I could see a team like Milwaukee maybe Doing a S&T with Ilyasova plus Gooden and Udrih for STAT and Fields. For them it gets Gooden and Udrih contract if the books plus give them a Big and a semi-defensive three. They also have the opportunity if they can not make a run of Amnesting STAT and create more room instead of using it on Gooden.

Amnesties cannot happen after this off season. So it was available last summer and this summer - thats at least how I understand it.

mrKnickShot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I do not know how I feel about it. I can see it working even if STAT starts but goes to the bench early so he can start the second qtr. Things that will needed to be added is more 3 and 4/5 PnRs plus more motion backside. Also more screens to get Melo and STAT into their desired ISO areas. Make it easier for them to get into their ISO spots earlier in the clock so they can pass out if a shot/drive is not there.

Regarding Trading STAT:

Can teams Amnesty a player they traded for in year or two after the trade? If so Why wouldn't a team that is on the cusp wouldn't want to take a stab at getting STAT low and if it doesn't work out have the option to Amnesty STAT and get him off the books to create more cap space.

I could see a team like Milwaukee maybe Doing a S&T with Ilyasova plus Gooden and Udrih for STAT and Fields. For them it gets Gooden and Udrih contract if the books plus give them a Big and a semi-defensive three. They also have the opportunity if they can not make a run of Amnesting STAT and create more room instead of using it on Gooden.

Amnesties cannot happen after this off season. So it was available last summer and this summer - thats at least how I understand it.

Upon research we are both wrong. It has to be a player already on contract with the team prior to the CBA agreement and it can happen one time whenever.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/sports/basketball/each-nba-team-can-waive-one-bad-contract.html

And many teams might simply hold onto their amnesty card for a future year. According to a draft of the rule, a team can use the provision in any off-season, subject to two restrictions: the player must have been signed before July 1, 2011, and must be on the team’s current roster.

In other words, a team cannot sign or trade for a player now and apply for amnesty later. The provision is meant for past mistakes, not future cap calamities.

yeah, i'd like to keep the group together. include Shump as a big piece to the puzzle.

there's always the trade deadline next year.

if the group doesn't work, maybe Lin and Amar'e can be packaged then.

management won't, but I think you need to explore trading Stat. Melo, Lin and Team Ball provide enough scoring to win, and there is some good defense.

Stat really hurts with the D he plays (none) and his inability to help Chandler on the boards.

So many times we played great d, and then gave up an offensive rebound. If I could trade Stat for someone like Faried or Reggie Evans, I think it would improve our team balance and strengths.

nixluva wrote:I agree that this team needs another shot at it. This season sucked from the very beginning. The Summer was a disaster with both STAT and Melo having issues with their health. A fresh start with Woody as the coach could be just what they need. It helps that Melo likes him and will play for him and everyone else falls in line behind that as well. That means there's unity from top to bottom.

The real issue is what will Grunwald do??? He's the one on the hotseat cuz he's got to make something out of nothing. Will he make meaningful additions or not? Also HOW is he gonna be able to improve the team with few resources and almost no money. If Grunwald can't improve the team this summer it's gonna be a long 82 games.

Grunwald has the MLE, LLE and Vet Min to offer. Lin likely takes all of the MLE. So what does he do to fill out the rest of the roster?

if he can parlay Amare/Fields into a starting 2guard that can actually shoot I'll look into getting a Grunfeld fat head. Hell take on a bad contract if you have to but Amare must be moved. Even IF his back gets better which, I'm not holding out hope for, there is still the issue of his knees.

I have lost all faith in Amare

Nope. The first thing we need to do is get rid of Amare because he is done. Then we need to get rid of Melo, because he is a me-first player. Then we need to get rid of Chandler because he has no offensive game. Lin's a d-league scrub, so he's gotta go too. Woody's problem is his name isn't Phil, so he is also outta here!

Best option is to blow it up because with this group although we could make the playoffs, we could not win a championship. It is championship or nuttin. What we need is a bunch of rookies and yoots. Give Phil Jackson 3 or 4 years with these rookies, and THEN we will be championship bound!

We need an expert here on trading players so we don't rehash this thing again and again. If it is impossible to trade a player, there is no need to keep talking about it, IMO.

BasketballJones wrote:Nope. The first thing we need to do is get rid of Amare because he is done. Then we need to get rid of Melo, because he is a me-first player. Then we need to get rid of Chandler because he has no offensive game. Lin's a d-league scrub, so he's gotta go too. Woody's problem is his name isn't Phil, so he is also outta here!

Best option is to blow it up because with this group although we could make the playoffs, we could not win a championship. It is championship or nuttin. What we need is a bunch of rookies and yoots. Give Phil Jackson 3 or 4 years with these rookies, and THEN we will be championship bound!

joke post

BasketballJones wrote:Nope. The first thing we need to do is get rid of Amare because he is done. Then we need to get rid of Melo, because he is a me-first player. Then we need to get rid of Chandler because he has no offensive game. Lin's a d-league scrub, so he's gotta go too. Woody's problem is his name isn't Phil, so he is also outta here!

Best option is to blow it up because with this group although we could make the playoffs, we could not win a championship. It is championship or nuttin. What we need is a bunch of rookies and yoots. Give Phil Jackson 3 or 4 years with these rookies, and THEN we will be championship bound!

LOL couldnt have said it better myself! Trade for the young Gallo & Mozvov and bring in Phil then everyone is happy!

gunsnewing wrote:

BasketballJones wrote:Nope. The first thing we need to do is get rid of Amare because he is done. Then we need to get rid of Melo, because he is a me-first player. Then we need to get rid of Chandler because he has no offensive game. Lin's a d-league scrub, so he's gotta go too. Woody's problem is his name isn't Phil, so he is also outta here!

Best option is to blow it up because with this group although we could make the playoffs, we could not win a championship. It is championship or nuttin. What we need is a bunch of rookies and yoots. Give Phil Jackson 3 or 4 years with these rookies, and THEN we will be championship bound!

LOL couldnt have said it better myself! Trade for the young Gallo & Mozvov and bring in Phil then everyone is happy!

We're talking about Knicks fans here. We can't be happy no matter what.

OKC is a lot better than Miami, whether ALL STARS or Stars, athleticism, talent, shooting, bench, and all departments...
Miami dominates us....

Enuff said, my first short post!

statandmelo1234 wrote:

BasketballJones wrote:Nope. The first thing we need to do is get rid of Amare because he is done. Then we need to get rid of Melo, because he is a me-first player. Then we need to get rid of Chandler because he has no offensive game. Lin's a d-league scrub, so he's gotta go too. Woody's problem is his name isn't Phil, so he is also outta here!

Best option is to blow it up because with this group although we could make the playoffs, we could not win a championship. It is championship or nuttin. What we need is a bunch of rookies and yoots. Give Phil Jackson 3 or 4 years with these rookies, and THEN we will be championship bound!

joke post

Shh! ixnay on the okejay ostpay.

I'm in agreement. But it's not going to work without the right pickups. From watching teams that win with team ball, like the Spurs, Clippers, Pacers, it's clear what we need, and Silverfuel is dead on: a backup PG for Lin, and a backup PF/SF. Actually we need 2 more guards.
We need 5 guards to be good money.
Spurs: Parker, Neal, Green, Mills, Ginobli
Clippers: Paul, Williams, Bledsoe, Young, Foye
Pacers: Collison, Hill, George, Barbosa, Jones

Right now: Knicks: Lin, Shumpert, Fields, (Douglas :( ) AND? (Don't say Smith, he's gone)

In addition we need a strong PF off the bench. Harrelson is great, fundamentals, IQ, good touch even if he can't jump, SMART post/lane D. BUT he lacks that fire that Chandler has and that presence is needed off the bench. Someone like Kenyon Martin, Reggie Evans, Al Harrington.

The number 1 thing that STAT and Melo need to work on? I know you think Defense, but it's passing. Learning how to be part of a pick and roll, a give and go, learning how to draw the double team and dish, and move the ball around. With Lin, Amare, Melo on the floor together and able to move the ball around, there should be plenty of buckets to share. No need for iso every trip down the floor. It means going back to school, this game is no different from anything else. Adapt or die. Time to teach old dogs new tricks.