Knicks · Garnett vs Amare (page 1)

I was sitting and thinking if Amare actually backed up half of what he talks he be almost as good as KG.

Sad that a 36 year old KG grabs more boards and plays better defense than Amare while scoring just as many points.

Stats don't tell the whole story. Amare has not finished his story yet.

ramtour420 wrote:Stats don't tell the whole story. Amare has not finished his story yet.

Amare better get, well, a better story. He's half the player KG is, and I hate KG.

martin wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:Stats don't tell the whole story. Amare has not finished his story yet.

Amare better get, well, a better story. He's half the player KG is, and I hate KG.

Well, hmm, at least Amare does't poke guys in funny places. If only SOMEONE could educate Amare about defense, and how to find that nearly lost jumper.

Defense is 70% effort. Amare doesn't show even 1% effort.

I would take KG for the next 3 years in heart beat.

Again, Amare isn't as bad as he is, he just doesn't fit with the players we have.
He has made sacrifices as he always tried to move the ball since the before Melo got here, went from alpha dog to 2nd leader, to being a role player on most nights.
Some of it is his age, some of it is that doesn't play center, PF's are much more agile, and on top of it Chandler cannot space the floor.

It doesn't help that Melo does not move the ball consistently, it doesn't help that Fields can't find a shot, that neither of our PF/C has a post game, that no one could hold their own on D except for Iman, that we had no PENETRATION outside of Lin,.......

I said it all along, when we were losing these games, we needed someone desperately that could penetrate with a good handle, with speed and quickness, because that was the main reason why our offense stunk. And we did try to to move the ball, but no one could penetrate of the handle, with Melo pulling up for fade aways, and Amare getting blocked or TOs.

This is basketball 101, thats why I was upset at Dantoni for not playing Lin, because he gave EVERYONE more than enough chances to try. While Lin did show the ability during the
"garbage" time and then gets sent to D League. Gets a triple double, gets called back, and stays on our bench, as he watches by for like 5-6 games as we get blown out every game.
Well, we need multiple players that have the ability to handle the bball and penetrate. This is why I want Harden so bad and I want DJO from the draft.
We really tried to move the bball many times in the season this year, but when we don't have players that can use the "triple threat, pass, shoot, and penetrate" it becomes useless.
To create high % shots, it comes of the combination of 3 things....

1) Post presence
2) Penetration *usually with speed,quickness*, especially with the PnR,
3) Multiple players with range on the court, 4 shooters generally that can hit the 3 are used much more now

With the abilities of the above, that could break down a team's defense, then these are the things that are secondaries

1) good spacing
2) picks, movement off the ball, cutting

we only have 1 player that can penetrate (Lin), and we don't have anyone that can post up besides Melo. He won't have that ability to do so, unless we have the

1) players that can spread the floor for him
2) won't happen with Amare and Tyson all together
3) players that can handle the bball so Melo doesn't post up from the 3point line to get he ball, which wouldn't really be a post up anymore.

Watch the series of OKC vs Spurs, they are the best examples of a team with OKC *having multiple players that can penetrate*

and

The Spurs, having all 3 with post presence, penetration, and players that can shoot. They mastered the theories of SSOL from Dantoni, while having the defenders to be able
to play good 1v1 defense and great team defense, while not having the weakness's of defense that Dantoni usually has had with his teams.

Lamar Odom, i think he can help the Knicks out but I don't think he will be the same player as he was in Lakers
=================================================================================================================

As for Lamar Odom, I have been thinking, he use to close out games with Gasol. He is a point/forward, but he isn't young anymore. I don't know if he is currently even better than David Lee at point/forward but I think he can still at least help take some pressure of our guards. I just don't know if he would be as effective as he was in LA, given their players that fit the triangle, had good spacing, and Gasol/Kobe/ even Fisher earns a lot of room to spread the floor for him.
Gasol is a very unique player, especially at Center, with his all round game, legit size and length, once had the clear advantage at speed over centers.
He is one of the best passing centers, right with Divac, and Sabonis, but is probably the best one in the league today.
My point, is that Odom, had a center that fit in with his skills, the passing abilities, with the ability to spread the floor to hit the shot.
He is a great at setting screens, cutting, plays PnR with the ability to shoot or cut in, and is a post presence.
We don't have that type of center with us, which teams will force Odom to shoot, just like Amare and Melo.
Unless we go small with Odom at Center with either Amare or Melo at PF, making us very weak on the defensive end.
Odom and the Lakers also excelled with Trevor Ariza, another versatile player that was once very athletic, long, with the abilities to do many things like cut, grab a rebound, steals, blocked shots, finishing or creating a fast break because the system and players allowed him to have much room to operate as the 4th or even 5th option.
I know they won with a ring with Artest as he hit some crucial 3pointers but their makeup of the team changed a lot because Ariza does many things that Artest can not.
Artest is slow but very strong, while Ariza is length, athletic, and versatile. He was also getting great looks at the 3point shot, because it was tough to defend him as the 4th or 5th option, with his ability to finish near the rim.

KG's length is something that Amare doesn't have which helps him in many areas and gives him the advantages including

1) shot blocking and defense
2) rebounding
3) easily passing over his defender
4) getting his shot off

KG also has great foot work that helps him in these areas as well.

Skill wise, he has the ability to post up, and hit anything from inside the 3point shot, even hit the 3pointer at times.
This opens up his ability to penetrate, while Amare forces to go inside, when they dare him to shoot with a half contested shot at best.

He might be a little older, doesn't move as well, or isn't as athletic as he once was, but he is still better than Amare in many areas.

1) he has 110% heart and dedication to the game
2) he backs up all the trash he says, on both ends on the game
3) you might hate him as an opponent, but would love for him to be on your team.
4) he sets great screens *even though a lot of them are illegal*, he has the ability to roam in and roam out for his shot

They have put up similar numbers at times but KG's game is far, superior, team oriented, and all round balanced game.
It wasn't too long ago that KG looked like he was in decline and Amare was looking getting MVP chants.
But we forget that Amare was playing Center, an illusion, that created his stats as the alpha dog, while losing just as many points and possessions on the defensive end.
Simply put, he just doesn't fit in with Melo and Tyson, while no longer being the alpha dog, being able to get the advantages at center, and being a weak link, unable to hold his own or help TC out when TC helps him and others.

RonRon wrote:KG's length is something that Amare doesn't have which helps him in many areas and gives him the advantages including

1) shot blocking and defense
2) rebounding
3) easily passing over his defender
4) getting his shot off

KG also has great foot work that helps him in these areas as well.

Skill wise, he has the ability to post up, and hit anything from inside the 3point shot, even hit the 3pointer at times.
This opens up his ability to penetrate, while Amare forces to go inside, when they dare him to shoot with a half contested shot at best.

He might be a little older, doesn't move as well, or isn't as athletic as he once was, but he is still better than Amare in many areas.

1) he has 110% heart and dedication to the game
2) he backs up all the trash he says, on both ends on the game
3) you might hate him as an opponent, but would love for him to be on your team.
4) he sets great screens *even though a lot of them are illegal*, he has the ability to roam in and roam out for his shot

They have put up similar numbers at times but KG's game is far, superior, team oriented, and all round balanced game.
It wasn't too long ago that KG looked like he was in decline and Amare was looking getting MVP chants.
But we forget that Amare was playing Center, an illusion, that created his stats as the alpha dog, while losing just as many points and possessions on the defensive end.
Simply put, he just doesn't fit in with Melo and Tyson, while no longer being the alpha dog, being able to get the advantages at center, and being a weak link, unable to hold his own or help TC out when TC helps him and others.

RonRon, I got a lot of love for you, but go outside homie! Get some fresh air! This is just too much. Are you writing this from inside a psych ward or rehab center somewhere? Your last 10 posts could be a 100 page book man. I'm worried about you.

Garnett is still better than Amare.

Kevin Garnett in his prime could play almost any position on the floor and play it well. Amare has trouble playing one position.

They should not even be compared.

Woodson's insistence on accountability is going to be put to the test next season with Stat. I hate Garnett but I respect his passion for the game and his never say die attitude.

Although Garnett is a dirty player i would agree he is still a better overall player. Another thing is his jumpshot which is always consistent. remember last season when amare had a great jumpshot. I hope that returns next year

GustavBahler wrote:Woodson's insistence on accountability is going to be put to the test next season with Stat. I hate Garnett but I respect his passion for the game and his never say die attitude.

Agreed. If Woodson is serious about holding people accountable he has to make STAT understand that if he doesn't show the effort on D and just get better at it he won't be a starter. I think STAT has the will to really try and become a good defender. He just has to dedicate this offseason to doing it as well as learn how to protect the ball better.

KG is one of the best players I've ever seen play. This thread is a little off. What's next, getting on Lin for not being as good as Nash?

MSG3 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Woodson's insistence on accountability is going to be put to the test next season with Stat. I hate Garnett but I respect his passion for the game and his never say die attitude.

Agreed. If Woodson is serious about holding people accountable he has to make STAT understand that if he doesn't show the effort on D and just get better at it he won't be a starter. I think STAT has the will to really try and become a good defender. He just has to dedicate this offseason to doing it as well as learn how to protect the ball better.

I hope so. If Stat could at the very least play D as well as most other starters at his position we would be in good shape.

SupremeCommander wrote:KG is one of the best players I've ever seen play. This thread is a little off. What's next, getting on Lin for not being as good as Nash?

I agree, its truly amazing, funny thing is how much people didn't even want to trade Amare for KG in the start of the season,
knowing KG is at least going to be instant cap relief and improve our defense.

Again, I do not think Amare is as bad as he has been playing, but the system, and players have switched on him, while he isn't able to produce those same numbers effectively.
Most importantly, his position has changed from Center to PF, while Tyson Chandler is a great defender, he isn't a scoring threat which creates less room for Stat.

Amare lacks a mean streak.

Vmart wrote:Amare lacks a mean streak.

Amare lacks a strong backbone.

TymeLessKnicks wrote:Garnett is still better than Amare.

Kevin Garnett in his prime could play almost any position on the floor and play it well. Amare has trouble playing one position.

They should not even be compared.

Papabear Says

Amare has butter fingers. The ball keeps slipping out of his hands.Or once he puts the ball on the floor forget it it goes to the other team.

SupremeCommander wrote:KG is one of the best players I've ever seen play. This thread is a little off. What's next, getting on Lin for not being as good as Nash?

If Amare is a max-contract superstar or even just an ordinary all-star, he should be better than any old guy with seventeen years of wear and tear.

When Amare first arrived to NY, he was a whole different player than he is now. Don't know if he was just starving for hiw own team, fed off the big city or what, but he was a monster offensively and very active on D. Right now he is mediocre at best offensively and an embarrassment defensively. With the pieces we currently have, we can't afford to have a black hole that destroys any good work we do defensively and can't even score consistently.

I don't know if Amar'e will ever be what he was that first year, but truth is, if Lin shows he can lead this team and his Linsanity was no fluke, then we will probably be a low-post scoring, rebounding machine power forward away from a solid team that can dream of big things. If you can get value for Amar'e now, don't doubt pulling the trigger.