Knicks · Harden/Perkins and their 1st rounder (page 4)
ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:For all the beard huggers best shooting guard in the league sabremetic lovers out there:James Harden, 37 minutes, 8 pts, 2-10 from the field, 1-5 from 3, 3-4 FT, 10 rebounds, 2 ast, 1 stl, 4 turnovers, plusminus -4
Good luck throwing max money at that garbage!
I understand not wanting to give Max money to Harden before proving himself as a legitimate number 1 option (even though I don’t know how Harden will ever do that in OKC with two max guys ahead of him) but to call him garbage, IT CLEARLY SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT HARDEN’S GAME.
And by the way even the best players in the NBA have had their bad games and series.Would you pay Harden $20 mill a year if you were an owner after seeing this Finals performance, 1 game out of 4 he actually showed up?
I may be wrong, but I don’t think young players on a rookie ending contract qualify for a $20 million a year salary anymore, I believe the most James Harden can make is around 16 million a year.
While it may be best for teams to pay Top money only to players who have proven themselves as a number 1 option, these types of NBA FRANCHISE PLAYERS are very difficult to obtain these days, so teams have to gamble sometimes and pay for potential.
That’s the reason why the Clippers and Nuggets paid over 40 million to Jordan and my boy Gallo and why the Knicks traded all their assets (and a bunch of picks) for Melo, since he has the potential to be in the same class as Duran and Lebrom. Some times teams over pay, just to secure the talent.Harden's having a terrible finals, game 2 the exception, but he's a capable 2nd or 3rd option ala Ginobili. Do I think he's worth Ginobili ($10mill - $12 mill per)money, perhaps. Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Melo money no way.
We are not that far away, but considering his age, potential and the lack of young true shooting guards in the NBA, I believe his range is a just a little bit higher, may be between ($12mill - $14 mill per year). However, it wouldn’t surprise me if a desperate team offers him a max salary, starting at 16mill per year, since Harden has the potential to be a 20ppg 5apg and 5rpg. A rare kind these days.
Vmart wrote:Harden is single handedly taking over the games, unfortunately for the wrong team.
hahaaha, good one!
JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.
A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
Don't know about that - I love Ginobli's game and he also has proven to be mr big shot. Harden, in my mind still has a lot to prove to be considered as good as Ginobli.
KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.
He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================
49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...
For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
No doubt, if Lebron is defending Harden, he won't be the same. But Lebron is an elite defender with the refs on his side. Throughout the entire series, Harden was called for fouls on Lebron which are not even fouls, including yesterdays game. And Lebron is pushing off with his off hand the whole time, making it even more unfair for Harden to defend.
We were a joke to Miami, we won game 4 because they didn't see us as threat, and came out soft.
Yes Melo had a great game, but Miami is not playing OKC the same way they played us.
Wade, Lebron, and not Heat are not taking bad shots for the entire series because they know what OKC is capable of.
Harden is much better than Melo already, he is worthy of a max contract of over him.
I think he is a top 3 SG in the entire league right now.
So there, I made my statement already, where do you stand, ChuckBuck?
You like to give a kick to Harden when he is playing a bad game/series, make your stand on him now...
Lebron had many poor playoff performances/games in his career, but to judge him on those games, and deny his talent as an elite player in the league would be retarded.
KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
Just for some perspective here are max players that actually maintain good percentages as the focal points:
Lebron James
FG% .531 3P% .362 FT% .771
Kevin Durant
FG% .496 3P% .387 FT% .860
RonRon wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
No doubt, if Lebron is defending Harden, he won't be the same. But Lebron is an elite defender with the refs on his side. Throughout the entire series, Harden was called for fouls on Lebron which are not even fouls, including yesterdays game. And Lebron is pushing off with his off hand the whole time, making it even more unfair for Harden to defend.
We were a joke to Miami, we won game 4 because they didn't see us as threat, and came out soft.
Yes Melo had a great game, but Miami is not playing OKC the same way they played us.
Wade, Lebron, and not Heat are not taking bad shots for the entire series because they know what OKC is capable of.Harden is much better than Melo already, he is worthy of a max contract of over him.
I think he is a top 3 SG in the entire league right now.
So there, I made my statement already, where do you stand, ChuckBuck?
You like to give a kick to Harden when he is playing a bad game/series, make your stand on him now...Lebron had many poor playoff performances/games in his career, but to judge him on those games, and deny his talent as an elite player in the league would be retarded.
Top 3 SG:
1)Wade
2)Bryant
3)Johnson
Everyone else:
Harden
Iguodala
Ginobili
Martin
Gordon
Ellis
Thornton
Allen
ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
Just for some perspective here are max players that actually maintain good percentages as the focal points:
Lebron James
FG% .531 3P% .362 FT% .771Kevin Durant
FG% .496 3P% .387 FT% .860
I said in all three categories, not just FG%, however, the fact that you had to come up with KD and LJ arguably the top two players in the NBA today, to get your point across, really show me how good James Harden can be one day.
KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
Just for some perspective here are max players that actually maintain good percentages as the focal points:
Lebron James
FG% .531 3P% .362 FT% .771Kevin Durant
FG% .496 3P% .387 FT% .860I said in all three categories, not just FG%, however, the fact that you had to come up with KD and LJ arguably the top two players in the NBA today, to get your point across, really show me how good James Harden can be one day.
Wow, you have pretty high standards for percentages, because those are pretty damn good in my eyes for an entire season. And you actually made my point for me, as basically only a few elite guys can average this consistently. Don't think Harden's elite yet by a mile, very good complimentary player, able to put numbers like this on a regular as the focal point of a team, no way Jose.
ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
Just for some perspective here are max players that actually maintain good percentages as the focal points:
Lebron James
FG% .531 3P% .362 FT% .771Kevin Durant
FG% .496 3P% .387 FT% .860I said in all three categories, not just FG%, however, the fact that you had to come up with KD and LJ arguably the top two players in the NBA today, to get your point across, really show me how good James Harden can be one day.
Wow, you have pretty high standards for percentages, because those are pretty damn good in my eyes for an entire season. And you actually made my point for me, as basically only a few elite guys can average this consistently. Don't think Harden's elite yet by a mile, very good complimentary player, able to put numbers like this on a regular as the focal point of a team, no way Jose.
First, where do you get the idea that only Elite players in the NBA get Max money? All Stars and non All Stars have received max or near max money as well before, so the possibility of Harden receiving a big offer is there.
Second, I never said that Harden was an elite player, I said that he has the potential to be a really good one, considering that he is only 22 years old and already compare to Ginobli, I believe you are contradicting yourselves when you call Harden garbage or complementary and then you bring KD and LJ stats to validate this point. I would say that if any player is compare statistically with the Top two players in the NBA, he must be pretty good.
KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
Just for some perspective here are max players that actually maintain good percentages as the focal points:
Lebron James
FG% .531 3P% .362 FT% .771Kevin Durant
FG% .496 3P% .387 FT% .860I said in all three categories, not just FG%, however, the fact that you had to come up with KD and LJ arguably the top two players in the NBA today, to get your point across, really show me how good James Harden can be one day.
Wow, you have pretty high standards for percentages, because those are pretty damn good in my eyes for an entire season. And you actually made my point for me, as basically only a few elite guys can average this consistently. Don't think Harden's elite yet by a mile, very good complimentary player, able to put numbers like this on a regular as the focal point of a team, no way Jose.
First, where do you get the idea that only Elite players in the NBA get Max money? All Stars and non All Stars have received max or near max money as well before, so the possibility of Harden receiving a big offer is there.
Second, I never said that Harden was an elite player, I said that he has the potential to be a really good one, considering that he is only 22 years old and already compare to Ginobli, I believe you are contradicting yourselves when you call Harden garbage or complementary and then you bring KD and LJ stats to validate this point. I would say that if any player is compare statistically with the Top two players in the NBA, he must be pretty good.
There are a few exceptions(Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas obviously), but I'd say the majority of max players are either all star, close to elite status, or were elite not too long ago:
Top NBA Salaries
1. Kobe Bryant LA Lakers
$25,244,000
2. Rashard Lewis Washington
$22,152,000
3. Tim Duncan San Antonio
$21,300,000
4. Kevin Garnett Boston
$21,200,000
5. Gilbert Arenas Orlando / Memphis
$19,569,308
6. Dirk Nowitzki Dallas
$19,092,873
7. Pau Gasol LA Lakers
$18,714,150
8. Carmelo Anthony New York
$18,520,000
9. Amare Stoudemire New York
$18,217,705
10. Joe Johnson Atlanta
$18,038,573
11. Dwight Howard Orlando
$17,885,400
12. Elton Brand Philadelphia
$17,059,726
13. Deron Williams Brooklyn
$16,359,805
14. Chris Paul LA Clippers
$16,359,805
15. Kevin Durant Oklahoma City
$16,324,500
16. LeBron James Miami
$16,022,500
17. Chris Bosh Miami
$16,022,500
18. Dwyane Wade Miami
$15,512,000
19. Paul Pierce Boston
$15,333,334
20. Baron Davis Cleveland / New York
$15,302,181
22. Zach Randolph Memphis
$15,200,000
21. Andrew Bynum LA Lakers
$15,157,667
23. Antawn Jamison Cleveland
$15,076,715
24. Rudy Gay Memphis
$15,032,144
25. Brandon Roy Portland
$14,940,153
26. Chauncey Billups LA Clippers
$14,200,000
27. Chris Kaman New Orleans
$14,030,000
28. Al Jefferson Utah
$14,000,000
29. Andre Iguodala Philadelphia
$13,531,750
30. Carlos Boozer Chicago
$13,500,000
Of course Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose will be on this list once their new contracts go into effect.
As far as Harden, I have nothing against him. He is Ginobili 2.0. Is he having a nightmare finals? Yes. Will it determine the rest of career? No. Is he worth max money as a focal point/main option? No. Will some team desperate for a 2 guard with cap room overpay? Probably. Is he better than Melo at this point in his career? No. Will his percentages be this good if he's the #1 option on another team? Hells no.
ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
Just for some perspective here are max players that actually maintain good percentages as the focal points:
Lebron James
FG% .531 3P% .362 FT% .771Kevin Durant
FG% .496 3P% .387 FT% .860I said in all three categories, not just FG%, however, the fact that you had to come up with KD and LJ arguably the top two players in the NBA today, to get your point across, really show me how good James Harden can be one day.
Wow, you have pretty high standards for percentages, because those are pretty damn good in my eyes for an entire season. And you actually made my point for me, as basically only a few elite guys can average this consistently. Don't think Harden's elite yet by a mile, very good complimentary player, able to put numbers like this on a regular as the focal point of a team, no way Jose.
First, where do you get the idea that only Elite players in the NBA get Max money? All Stars and non All Stars have received max or near max money as well before, so the possibility of Harden receiving a big offer is there.
Second, I never said that Harden was an elite player, I said that he has the potential to be a really good one, considering that he is only 22 years old and already compare to Ginobli, I believe you are contradicting yourselves when you call Harden garbage or complementary and then you bring KD and LJ stats to validate this point. I would say that if any player is compare statistically with the Top two players in the NBA, he must be pretty good.
There are a few exceptions(Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas obviously), but I'd say the majority of max players are either all star, close to elite status, or were elite not too long ago:
Top NBA Salaries
1. Kobe Bryant LA Lakers
$25,244,000
2. Rashard Lewis Washington
$22,152,000
3. Tim Duncan San Antonio
$21,300,000
4. Kevin Garnett Boston
$21,200,000
5. Gilbert Arenas Orlando / Memphis
$19,569,308
6. Dirk Nowitzki Dallas
$19,092,873
7. Pau Gasol LA Lakers
$18,714,150
8. Carmelo Anthony New York
$18,520,000
9. Amare Stoudemire New York
$18,217,705
10. Joe Johnson Atlanta
$18,038,573
11. Dwight Howard Orlando
$17,885,400
12. Elton Brand Philadelphia
$17,059,726
13. Deron Williams Brooklyn
$16,359,805
14. Chris Paul LA Clippers
$16,359,805
15. Kevin Durant Oklahoma City
$16,324,500
16. LeBron James Miami
$16,022,500
17. Chris Bosh Miami
$16,022,500
18. Dwyane Wade Miami
$15,512,000
19. Paul Pierce Boston
$15,333,334
20. Baron Davis Cleveland / New York
$15,302,181
22. Zach Randolph Memphis
$15,200,000
21. Andrew Bynum LA Lakers
$15,157,667
23. Antawn Jamison Cleveland
$15,076,715
24. Rudy Gay Memphis
$15,032,144
25. Brandon Roy Portland
$14,940,153
26. Chauncey Billups LA Clippers
$14,200,000
27. Chris Kaman New Orleans
$14,030,000
28. Al Jefferson Utah
$14,000,000
29. Andre Iguodala Philadelphia
$13,531,750
30. Carlos Boozer Chicago
$13,500,000Of course Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose will be on this list once their new contracts go into effect.
As far as Harden, I have nothing against him. He is Ginobili 2.0. Is he having a nightmare finals? Yes. Will it determine the rest of career? No. Is he worth max money as a focal point/main option? No. Will some team desperate for a 2 guard with cap room overpay? Probably. Is he better than Melo at this point in his career? No. Will his percentages be this good if he's the #1 option on another team? Hells no.
Now we are talking, but also, think about this, some of the guys on that list (Rudy Gay, Andrew Bynum, Andre Iguadala) were not elite either when they were 22 years old; yet they got paid big money because of their NBA skills and potential. James Harden at 22 years old is supposed to get only better and believe me NBA executive know this.
KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
Just for some perspective here are max players that actually maintain good percentages as the focal points:
Lebron James
FG% .531 3P% .362 FT% .771Kevin Durant
FG% .496 3P% .387 FT% .860I said in all three categories, not just FG%, however, the fact that you had to come up with KD and LJ arguably the top two players in the NBA today, to get your point across, really show me how good James Harden can be one day.
Wow, you have pretty high standards for percentages, because those are pretty damn good in my eyes for an entire season. And you actually made my point for me, as basically only a few elite guys can average this consistently. Don't think Harden's elite yet by a mile, very good complimentary player, able to put numbers like this on a regular as the focal point of a team, no way Jose.
First, where do you get the idea that only Elite players in the NBA get Max money? All Stars and non All Stars have received max or near max money as well before, so the possibility of Harden receiving a big offer is there.
Second, I never said that Harden was an elite player, I said that he has the potential to be a really good one, considering that he is only 22 years old and already compare to Ginobli, I believe you are contradicting yourselves when you call Harden garbage or complementary and then you bring KD and LJ stats to validate this point. I would say that if any player is compare statistically with the Top two players in the NBA, he must be pretty good.
There are a few exceptions(Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas obviously), but I'd say the majority of max players are either all star, close to elite status, or were elite not too long ago:
Top NBA Salaries
1. Kobe Bryant LA Lakers
$25,244,000
2. Rashard Lewis Washington
$22,152,000
3. Tim Duncan San Antonio
$21,300,000
4. Kevin Garnett Boston
$21,200,000
5. Gilbert Arenas Orlando / Memphis
$19,569,308
6. Dirk Nowitzki Dallas
$19,092,873
7. Pau Gasol LA Lakers
$18,714,150
8. Carmelo Anthony New York
$18,520,000
9. Amare Stoudemire New York
$18,217,705
10. Joe Johnson Atlanta
$18,038,573
11. Dwight Howard Orlando
$17,885,400
12. Elton Brand Philadelphia
$17,059,726
13. Deron Williams Brooklyn
$16,359,805
14. Chris Paul LA Clippers
$16,359,805
15. Kevin Durant Oklahoma City
$16,324,500
16. LeBron James Miami
$16,022,500
17. Chris Bosh Miami
$16,022,500
18. Dwyane Wade Miami
$15,512,000
19. Paul Pierce Boston
$15,333,334
20. Baron Davis Cleveland / New York
$15,302,181
22. Zach Randolph Memphis
$15,200,000
21. Andrew Bynum LA Lakers
$15,157,667
23. Antawn Jamison Cleveland
$15,076,715
24. Rudy Gay Memphis
$15,032,144
25. Brandon Roy Portland
$14,940,153
26. Chauncey Billups LA Clippers
$14,200,000
27. Chris Kaman New Orleans
$14,030,000
28. Al Jefferson Utah
$14,000,000
29. Andre Iguodala Philadelphia
$13,531,750
30. Carlos Boozer Chicago
$13,500,000Of course Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose will be on this list once their new contracts go into effect.
As far as Harden, I have nothing against him. He is Ginobili 2.0. Is he having a nightmare finals? Yes. Will it determine the rest of career? No. Is he worth max money as a focal point/main option? No. Will some team desperate for a 2 guard with cap room overpay? Probably. Is he better than Melo at this point in his career? No. Will his percentages be this good if he's the #1 option on another team? Hells no.
Now we are talking, but also, think about this, some of the guys on that list (Rudy Gay, Andrew Bynum, Andre Iguadala) were not elite either when they were 22 years old; yet they got paid big money because of their NBA skills and potential. James Harden at 22 years old is supposed to get only better and believe me NBA executive know this.
He will get paid purely on potential, yes. He's very good, but we shall see how good in the next few years.
ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
Just for some perspective here are max players that actually maintain good percentages as the focal points:
Lebron James
FG% .531 3P% .362 FT% .771Kevin Durant
FG% .496 3P% .387 FT% .860I said in all three categories, not just FG%, however, the fact that you had to come up with KD and LJ arguably the top two players in the NBA today, to get your point across, really show me how good James Harden can be one day.
Wow, you have pretty high standards for percentages, because those are pretty damn good in my eyes for an entire season. And you actually made my point for me, as basically only a few elite guys can average this consistently. Don't think Harden's elite yet by a mile, very good complimentary player, able to put numbers like this on a regular as the focal point of a team, no way Jose.
First, where do you get the idea that only Elite players in the NBA get Max money? All Stars and non All Stars have received max or near max money as well before, so the possibility of Harden receiving a big offer is there.
Second, I never said that Harden was an elite player, I said that he has the potential to be a really good one, considering that he is only 22 years old and already compare to Ginobli, I believe you are contradicting yourselves when you call Harden garbage or complementary and then you bring KD and LJ stats to validate this point. I would say that if any player is compare statistically with the Top two players in the NBA, he must be pretty good.
There are a few exceptions(Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas obviously), but I'd say the majority of max players are either all star, close to elite status, or were elite not too long ago:
Top NBA Salaries
1. Kobe Bryant LA Lakers
$25,244,000
2. Rashard Lewis Washington
$22,152,000
3. Tim Duncan San Antonio
$21,300,000
4. Kevin Garnett Boston
$21,200,000
5. Gilbert Arenas Orlando / Memphis
$19,569,308
6. Dirk Nowitzki Dallas
$19,092,873
7. Pau Gasol LA Lakers
$18,714,150
8. Carmelo Anthony New York
$18,520,000
9. Amare Stoudemire New York
$18,217,705
10. Joe Johnson Atlanta
$18,038,573
11. Dwight Howard Orlando
$17,885,400
12. Elton Brand Philadelphia
$17,059,726
13. Deron Williams Brooklyn
$16,359,805
14. Chris Paul LA Clippers
$16,359,805
15. Kevin Durant Oklahoma City
$16,324,500
16. LeBron James Miami
$16,022,500
17. Chris Bosh Miami
$16,022,500
18. Dwyane Wade Miami
$15,512,000
19. Paul Pierce Boston
$15,333,334
20. Baron Davis Cleveland / New York
$15,302,181
22. Zach Randolph Memphis
$15,200,000
21. Andrew Bynum LA Lakers
$15,157,667
23. Antawn Jamison Cleveland
$15,076,715
24. Rudy Gay Memphis
$15,032,144
25. Brandon Roy Portland
$14,940,153
26. Chauncey Billups LA Clippers
$14,200,000
27. Chris Kaman New Orleans
$14,030,000
28. Al Jefferson Utah
$14,000,000
29. Andre Iguodala Philadelphia
$13,531,750
30. Carlos Boozer Chicago
$13,500,000Of course Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose will be on this list once their new contracts go into effect.
As far as Harden, I have nothing against him. He is Ginobili 2.0. Is he having a nightmare finals? Yes. Will it determine the rest of career? No. Is he worth max money as a focal point/main option? No. Will some team desperate for a 2 guard with cap room overpay? Probably. Is he better than Melo at this point in his career? No. Will his percentages be this good if he's the #1 option on another team? Hells no.
Now we are talking, but also, think about this, some of the guys on that list (Rudy Gay, Andrew Bynum, Andre Iguadala) were not elite either when they were 22 years old; yet they got paid big money because of their NBA skills and potential. James Harden at 22 years old is supposed to get only better and believe me NBA executive know this.
He will get paid purely on potential, yes. He's very good, but we shall see how good in the next few years.
Totally true, Eric Gordon may be another one who will receive a big increase in salary in the next couple of years, but may be a little less than Harden due to his past injuries, also look at the teams in the NBA final, both very guard oriented, and the only All Star big man in that series (Bosh) is actually a shooter.
KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:KnicksFE wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:JohnStarksFan wrote:Harden is a Ginobli type - And Ginobli is not a max contract player. Harden has LOADS of potential, but potential alone very rarely gets a max deal. He has a few years and a lot of game to go before he gets that kind of paycheck.A Gonobli type at 22 years old, 4 years from now when Harden reach his prime I belive he is going to be much better.
exactly, Harden has not peaked yet. He is a player that is a triple threat, with penetration, shooting, and the ability to pass.
He is having a bad series, but that doesn't take away his abilities, skills, and potential.He is a great rebounder, with the ability pass, and is one of the best penetration/finishers in the game today.
Hardens averages for the season the whole year
==================================================49.1 FG% making 5/10 FGs made per game
84.6 FT% making 5/6 FTs per game
39.0 3point% making 1.8/ 4.7 per game
4.1 Rebounds
3.7 ASS
1 Steal
2 TOs
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4563...For all of you that are stepping on Harden right now, state if you think he is worth more than Melo and Amare...
Let's see those percentages when he's the focal point of a team without teams keying on Durant and Westbrook. He may score more on another team, but I'd love to see those percentages stay there as the main guy when Lebron or Kobe is guarding him.
That’s irrelevant considering that not even Lebron, Wade or Kobe shoot at such a high percentage in all three categories for a season, so if the percentage decreases a little, as a first or second option, Harden will still be effective due to his versatility.
Just for some perspective here are max players that actually maintain good percentages as the focal points:
Lebron James
FG% .531 3P% .362 FT% .771Kevin Durant
FG% .496 3P% .387 FT% .860I said in all three categories, not just FG%, however, the fact that you had to come up with KD and LJ arguably the top two players in the NBA today, to get your point across, really show me how good James Harden can be one day.
Wow, you have pretty high standards for percentages, because those are pretty damn good in my eyes for an entire season. And you actually made my point for me, as basically only a few elite guys can average this consistently. Don't think Harden's elite yet by a mile, very good complimentary player, able to put numbers like this on a regular as the focal point of a team, no way Jose.
First, where do you get the idea that only Elite players in the NBA get Max money? All Stars and non All Stars have received max or near max money as well before, so the possibility of Harden receiving a big offer is there.
Second, I never said that Harden was an elite player, I said that he has the potential to be a really good one, considering that he is only 22 years old and already compare to Ginobli, I believe you are contradicting yourselves when you call Harden garbage or complementary and then you bring KD and LJ stats to validate this point. I would say that if any player is compare statistically with the Top two players in the NBA, he must be pretty good.
There are a few exceptions(Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas obviously), but I'd say the majority of max players are either all star, close to elite status, or were elite not too long ago:
Top NBA Salaries
1. Kobe Bryant LA Lakers
$25,244,000
2. Rashard Lewis Washington
$22,152,000
3. Tim Duncan San Antonio
$21,300,000
4. Kevin Garnett Boston
$21,200,000
5. Gilbert Arenas Orlando / Memphis
$19,569,308
6. Dirk Nowitzki Dallas
$19,092,873
7. Pau Gasol LA Lakers
$18,714,150
8. Carmelo Anthony New York
$18,520,000
9. Amare Stoudemire New York
$18,217,705
10. Joe Johnson Atlanta
$18,038,573
11. Dwight Howard Orlando
$17,885,400
12. Elton Brand Philadelphia
$17,059,726
13. Deron Williams Brooklyn
$16,359,805
14. Chris Paul LA Clippers
$16,359,805
15. Kevin Durant Oklahoma City
$16,324,500
16. LeBron James Miami
$16,022,500
17. Chris Bosh Miami
$16,022,500
18. Dwyane Wade Miami
$15,512,000
19. Paul Pierce Boston
$15,333,334
20. Baron Davis Cleveland / New York
$15,302,181
22. Zach Randolph Memphis
$15,200,000
21. Andrew Bynum LA Lakers
$15,157,667
23. Antawn Jamison Cleveland
$15,076,715
24. Rudy Gay Memphis
$15,032,144
25. Brandon Roy Portland
$14,940,153
26. Chauncey Billups LA Clippers
$14,200,000
27. Chris Kaman New Orleans
$14,030,000
28. Al Jefferson Utah
$14,000,000
29. Andre Iguodala Philadelphia
$13,531,750
30. Carlos Boozer Chicago
$13,500,000Of course Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose will be on this list once their new contracts go into effect.
As far as Harden, I have nothing against him. He is Ginobili 2.0. Is he having a nightmare finals? Yes. Will it determine the rest of career? No. Is he worth max money as a focal point/main option? No. Will some team desperate for a 2 guard with cap room overpay? Probably. Is he better than Melo at this point in his career? No. Will his percentages be this good if he's the #1 option on another team? Hells no.
Now we are talking, but also, think about this, some of the guys on that list (Rudy Gay, Andrew Bynum, Andre Iguadala) were not elite either when they were 22 years old; yet they got paid big money because of their NBA skills and potential. James Harden at 22 years old is supposed to get only better and believe me NBA executive know this.
He will get paid purely on potential, yes. He's very good, but we shall see how good in the next few years.
Totally true, Eric Gordon may be another one who will receive a big increase in salary in the next couple of years, but may be a little less than Harden due to his past injuries, also look at the teams in the NBA final, both very guard oriented, and the only All Star big man in that series (Bosh) is actually a shooter.
Agree. Could see Gordon closer to $10mill due to his injuries. Lebron is a freak in that the Heat play him at Power Forward when they go small, but he still initiates the offense effectively. Sorta like if Karl Malone had track speed and Magic Johnson's abilities.
It's like your trash him, then you don't want to fully commit to what your are saying....
IF he goes to a team with nobody and #1 option, you will still trash him if he does great
"nobody is there, he can do whatever he want"
If he has decent team around him, you will not give him credit...
Meanwhile look at every team that has won a ring, look and see how many ALL Stars, Stars, GREAT Role players, and supporting cast they all have....
Harden already better than Joe Johnson, come on, deserves that #3 spot on your list.
Wade and Kobe, it is a bit harder to distinguish, they deserve the edge over Harden.
We have to wait to see if Harden can lead a team as the #1 option before fully determining that.
However, Harden has the edge over all 3 of those players due to his age and ability to still improve.
He is one of the rare players in the entire league that has the ability to play legit PG, SG, and SF as good as he can.
I don't think any of this players under here, can play all 3 positions as good as Harden is capable off.
Not many players can do that, of course Lebron can play 4 position heck maybe 5.
Other players that are SG's that can probably play 3 positions but not as good as Harden include.
Wade I think he can play the SF, but would do even more damage to his body. He has the strength, size, and athleticism to play some minutes at it.
Joe Johnson (think he lost a step, more of a shooter without the quickness to penetrate consistently) I don't
Ginobili weights like 180 pounds, that can play 3 positions with his surprisingly strong, athletic, quick/fast, and great foot work/moves.
Iguodala I think AI, is a point/forward that can play legit SG. He is probably the closest to the PG on the term, but cannot play legit PG. Can play Point/forward and help facilitating like how Odom has done in the past.
Eric Gordon, not sure if he can play SF, I think he can play both PG/SG positions. Probably not SF on most nights, but depending on the matchup he can contribute some minutes.
1st tier
-----------
Lebron
Durant
Derrick Rose
2nd tier
--------------
Dwade
CP3
Deron Williams
Young tier, just got off rookie contracts, still has ability to improve
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Westbrook
Harden
Rudy Gay
Bynum
Marc Gasol
--------------------
Iguodala
Granger
Eric Gordon
Hibbert
Harden is at the very least on the same category as the younger max players in Westbrook, Rudy Gay, and Bynum, all make max salaries.
I didn't want to put players that were near 30 or over on these list.
Any one above the cut off line, Marc Gasol, has the ability to move up depending on how they are playing.
OKC /Heat Series
======================
And Lebron is playing PG, while being the PF of the series, with 4 other shooters to spread the floor.
Harden is no match for him, especially in the post, with the way Lebron also pushes off with his off hand.
But OKC wants to conserve energy with Durant for offense, probably hurting Harden's ability to score as well.
He is posting Harden, which totally takes your legs out, a reason why he may be out of it, as well as his injury on wrist being a possibility for this series.
I think Durant and Ibaka are the only 2 players that can defend Lebron. And they both must give him the 3point shot, cause if not they will drive right past them.
And help just cannot come fast enough when Miami puts 5 shooters out there to space the floor, and they all play off Lebron very well with great spacing and movement.