Knicks · Grade Grunwald this off-season up to letting Lin go (page 1)

Not impressed. We got a lot older. I agree you need some vets but you don't need to add three guys approaching 40 to your rotation. Also losing your player with the most upside* for absolutely nothing is pathetic.

*Apologies to Shump, his upside might be higher than Lin's actually.

Lin just killed all the good he did. F

C

I put B- being nice. More like C+. I mean letting lin walk was dumb. Bringing in a new mix new guys. I guess back to square one. This better be a hell of a training camp and people better gel. If not , letting lin walk will look foolish. I wanted him here but the FO wants to move another direction and can agree with them to a certain point. Its funny melo says lins contract is riduculous. Its riduculous you couldn't wait till the off season and come here with all the knicks assets and build from that. I digress.

The "old players" Grunwald signed were to fill out our present team, not be the stars. For that, he did a great job. Especially since we had very few assets to trade. I don't blame him for Lin leaving. We know where the blame lies for that. On Dolan and on Lin.

Getting Camby was a good move. He's coming off a strong season. Regarding Kidd and Kurt, I Don't think either one has much left. I'd like to see Kurt retire as a Knick.

I'm very interested in seeing how Lin develops. I think I read somewhere that he worked out to get physically stronger. That should help his durability, but it might slow him down a little. Also, I'm curious if he's now able to go left. That would make him difficult to guard.

Ira wrote:Getting Camby was a good move. He's coming off a strong season. Regarding Kidd and Kurt, I Don't think either one has much left. I'd like to see Kurt retire as a Knick.

I'm very interested in seeing how Lin develops. I think I read somewhere that he worked out to get physically stronger. That should help his durability, but it might slow him down a little. Also, I'm curious if he's now able to go left. That would make him difficult to guard.

Sorry but I don't wish Lin well. We know Dolan can be a jerk, but Lin and his new agent screwed us in the negotiations. Devious and distrustful.Broke their verbal agreement. Went behind our backs to re-negotiate.

F might be overkill. You have to admit, the team is probably better than it was last year. Camby, Kurt Thomas, Kidd, Felton are great improvements, despite their combined 5000 years of age. All we lost basically was Jeffries, Harrelson, Bibby, Davis.. oh. And Jeremy Lin. Still doesn't make sense from a basketball standpoint.

C

A- Losing Lin was just a business move that didn't go our way. I don't blame New York for not paying this kid Rondo money. I just hope we won't have to see Lin threads popping up a week from now. He's a Rocket so fuk him and go New York.

I hope we do a Miami heat and shut his ass down whenever Knicks face Houston.

for those not giving F's, the knicks could have matched Lin and traded him in January to just about half the league and at least gotten back 2-3 first round draft picks.

Without looking at salary - we could have easily traded him to Orlando (trying to keep Howard), Dallas (restocking with Dirk), or Miami.

You can not defend any grade but F.

franco12 wrote:for those not giving F's, the knicks could have matched Lin and traded him in January to just about half the league and at least gotten back 2-3 first round draft picks.

Without looking at salary - we could have easily traded him to Orlando (trying to keep Howard), Dallas (restocking with Dirk), or Miami.

You can not defend any grade but F.

You might be right, but there is a possibility that even with Lin playing great, not many teams trade for him with that poisson pill. Whit the team we have, Lin was bound for a reduction in his numbers and who knows if the comments on players about his contract would've represented a future problem in the locker room that would've also affected him. Yes, these are suppositions, but have as much value as yours.

Again, I would have matched him and see what I could do later, but the Knicks considered that and still made this decision. Do they know something we don't? We'll see but I don't think it is necessaryly as easy as you mention it.

Knicksfan wrote:

franco12 wrote:for those not giving F's, the knicks could have matched Lin and traded him in January to just about half the league and at least gotten back 2-3 first round draft picks.

Without looking at salary - we could have easily traded him to Orlando (trying to keep Howard), Dallas (restocking with Dirk), or Miami.

You can not defend any grade but F.

You might be right, but there is a possibility that even with Lin playing great, not many teams trade for him with that poisson pill. Whit the team we have, Lin was bound for a reduction in his numbers and who knows if the comments on players about his contract would've represented a future problem in the locker room that would've also affected him. Yes, these are suppositions, but have as much value as yours.

Again, I would have matched him and see what I could do later, but the Knicks considered that and still made this decision. Do they know something we don't? We'll see but I don't think it is necessaryly as easy as you mention it.

this is from my response to the Berger article thread about fans seeing this B&W.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

franco12 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

franco12 wrote:for those not giving F's, the knicks could have matched Lin and traded him in January to just about half the league and at least gotten back 2-3 first round draft picks.

Without looking at salary - we could have easily traded him to Orlando (trying to keep Howard), Dallas (restocking with Dirk), or Miami.

You can not defend any grade but F.

You might be right, but there is a possibility that even with Lin playing great, not many teams trade for him with that poisson pill. Whit the team we have, Lin was bound for a reduction in his numbers and who knows if the comments on players about his contract would've represented a future problem in the locker room that would've also affected him. Yes, these are suppositions, but have as much value as yours.

Again, I would have matched him and see what I could do later, but the Knicks considered that and still made this decision. Do they know something we don't? We'll see but I don't think it is necessaryly as easy as you mention it.

this is from my response to the Berger article thread about fans seeing this B&W.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

That is perfectly clear. If you were the owner of the team, things would be great. You've got a clear mind but a minimal bank acct.

Grunwald did a great job. That's the title of the thread. Your "F" grade should go to Dolan for not matching Houston's offer.

franco12 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

franco12 wrote:for those not giving F's, the knicks could have matched Lin and traded him in January to just about half the league and at least gotten back 2-3 first round draft picks.

Without looking at salary - we could have easily traded him to Orlando (trying to keep Howard), Dallas (restocking with Dirk), or Miami.

You can not defend any grade but F.

You might be right, but there is a possibility that even with Lin playing great, not many teams trade for him with that poisson pill. Whit the team we have, Lin was bound for a reduction in his numbers and who knows if the comments on players about his contract would've represented a future problem in the locker room that would've also affected him. Yes, these are suppositions, but have as much value as yours.

Again, I would have matched him and see what I could do later, but the Knicks considered that and still made this decision. Do they know something we don't? We'll see but I don't think it is necessaryly as easy as you mention it.

this is from my response to the Berger article thread about fans seeing this B&W.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

Dolan's feelings were hurt and that comes before basketball, the Knicks and the fans

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

franco12 wrote:for those not giving F's, the knicks could have matched Lin and traded him in January to just about half the league and at least gotten back 2-3 first round draft picks.

Without looking at salary - we could have easily traded him to Orlando (trying to keep Howard), Dallas (restocking with Dirk), or Miami.

You can not defend any grade but F.

You might be right, but there is a possibility that even with Lin playing great, not many teams trade for him with that poisson pill. Whit the team we have, Lin was bound for a reduction in his numbers and who knows if the comments on players about his contract would've represented a future problem in the locker room that would've also affected him. Yes, these are suppositions, but have as much value as yours.

Again, I would have matched him and see what I could do later, but the Knicks considered that and still made this decision. Do they know something we don't? We'll see but I don't think it is necessaryly as easy as you mention it.

this is from my response to the Berger article thread about fans seeing this B&W.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

Dolan's feelings were hurt and that comes before basketball, the Knicks and the fans

Sorry, but I've missed this. I've seen this written here that Dolan's feelings have been hurt.

How, where, and was there an article or news item or radio show about same?

I just think its irrational- and that isn't out of character for Dolan. But I would think Dollars and Cents would even get through to him.

If it is feelings- then part of it must be Dolan thinks its MSG that made Lin great, and in Houston, he'll just be another marginal star from a marketing stand point.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

franco12 wrote:for those not giving F's, the knicks could have matched Lin and traded him in January to just about half the league and at least gotten back 2-3 first round draft picks.

Without looking at salary - we could have easily traded him to Orlando (trying to keep Howard), Dallas (restocking with Dirk), or Miami.

You can not defend any grade but F.

You might be right, but there is a possibility that even with Lin playing great, not many teams trade for him with that poisson pill. Whit the team we have, Lin was bound for a reduction in his numbers and who knows if the comments on players about his contract would've represented a future problem in the locker room that would've also affected him. Yes, these are suppositions, but have as much value as yours.

Again, I would have matched him and see what I could do later, but the Knicks considered that and still made this decision. Do they know something we don't? We'll see but I don't think it is necessaryly as easy as you mention it.

this is from my response to the Berger article thread about fans seeing this B&W.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

Dolan's feelings were hurt and that comes before basketball, the Knicks and the fans

Sorry, but I've missed this. I've seen this written here that Dolan's feelings have been hurt.

How, where, and was there an article or news item or radio show about same?

I just think its irrational- and that isn't out of character for Dolan. But I would think Dollars and Cents would even get through to him.

If it is feelings- then part of it must be Dolan thinks its MSG that made Lin great, and in Houston, he'll just be another marginal star from a marketing stand point.

whats the other explanation? Either that or Dolan listens to Melo and JR Smith about Lin's ridiculous contract and the tension it will create in the lockeroom.

Dolan was at risk... If a Lin-lead team started to win MSG would have a monster on their hands. They would prefer yes men they can control. Melo is perfect.. big enough a star to be called a star, not good enough to bring the wins that allows him to call the shots.

Grunwald did good in getting Kidd. Adding Camby was a decent move too. After that he failed the team miserably. Addition of KT and Felton does absolutely nothing for me that's all good in nostalgia land, we don't know what the Knicks will get out of Felton and KT is washed up long removed from his past. If Felton. Comes in out of shape I will have a hard time rooting for him.

I don't mind losing Lin but needed to get something rather than nothing for Lin. That's all water under the bridge now. Grundwald I give him a D grade.

C.

He was doing well (A-), but in the past week this is what we've done:

Jeremy Lin
Jared Jeffries
Dan Gadzuric's non-guaranteed contract
Georgios Printezis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Cash considerations

for

Raymond Felton
Kurt Thomas

Equivalent of a student doing well over the semester, and just bombing the final exam.

markvmc wrote:C.

He was doing well (A-), but in the past week this is what we've done:

Jeremy Lin
Jared Jeffries
Dan Gadzuric's non-guaranteed contract
Georgios Printezis
Kostas Papanikolaou
Cash considerations

for

Raymond Felton
Kurt Thomas

Equivalent of a student doing well over the semester, and just bombing the final exam.

Getting Felton was a great move in the context of the situation. When Lin came back with the renegotiated offer, the Knicks right then made the decision to not bring Lin back. IMO. So we didn't have a starting point guard. At that time, Felton was probably the best PG available and especially at our limited salary offer. Grunwald snapped him up as quickly as he could. If we didn't have Felton and we let Lin go, who would be our starting PG?

franco12 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

franco12 wrote:for those not giving F's, the knicks could have matched Lin and traded him in January to just about half the league and at least gotten back 2-3 first round draft picks.

Without looking at salary - we could have easily traded him to Orlando (trying to keep Howard), Dallas (restocking with Dirk), or Miami.

You can not defend any grade but F.

You might be right, but there is a possibility that even with Lin playing great, not many teams trade for him with that poisson pill. Whit the team we have, Lin was bound for a reduction in his numbers and who knows if the comments on players about his contract would've represented a future problem in the locker room that would've also affected him. Yes, these are suppositions, but have as much value as yours.

Again, I would have matched him and see what I could do later, but the Knicks considered that and still made this decision. Do they know something we don't? We'll see but I don't think it is necessaryly as easy as you mention it.

this is from my response to the Berger article thread about fans seeing this B&W.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

Berger also said no GM is trading for Lin with that third year of his contract.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

franco12 wrote:for those not giving F's, the knicks could have matched Lin and traded him in January to just about half the league and at least gotten back 2-3 first round draft picks.

Without looking at salary - we could have easily traded him to Orlando (trying to keep Howard), Dallas (restocking with Dirk), or Miami.

You can not defend any grade but F.

You might be right, but there is a possibility that even with Lin playing great, not many teams trade for him with that poisson pill. Whit the team we have, Lin was bound for a reduction in his numbers and who knows if the comments on players about his contract would've represented a future problem in the locker room that would've also affected him. Yes, these are suppositions, but have as much value as yours.

Again, I would have matched him and see what I could do later, but the Knicks considered that and still made this decision. Do they know something we don't? We'll see but I don't think it is necessaryly as easy as you mention it.

this is from my response to the Berger article thread about fans seeing this B&W.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is clearly black and white,

Simple - the Knicks match the contract.

If there is a personality issue, then the Knicks trade him January of 2013. Crap, you could keep him on ice the whole friggin time. You get back at least and ending contract and draft picks. Dallas, Orlando, Miami, Toronto- plenty of teams you could easily move him to.

If there is no personality issue, and they keep him, but is a bust, then they waive him and spread the $14M cap hit over three years. Dolan has blown bigger money on worst things.

If there is no personality issue, and the keep him, and his play is Linsane, guess what- he is worth every cent you pay in the luxury tax, and maybe you find a taker for one of the other big three contracts we have before the tax hit.

How the heck is that not clear, rational thinking?

Dolan's feelings were hurt and that comes before basketball, the Knicks and the fans

Sorry, but I've missed this. I've seen this written here that Dolan's feelings have been hurt.

How, where, and was there an article or news item or radio show about same?

I just think its irrational- and that isn't out of character for Dolan. But I would think Dollars and Cents would even get through to him.

If it is feelings- then part of it must be Dolan thinks its MSG that made Lin great, and in Houston, he'll just be another marginal star from a marketing stand point.

whats the other explanation? Either that or Dolan listens to Melo and JR Smith about Lin's ridiculous contract and the tension it will create in the lockeroom.

Dolan was at risk... If a Lin-lead team started to win MSG would have a monster on their hands. They would prefer yes men they can control. Melo is perfect.. big enough a star to be called a star, not good enough to bring the wins that allows him to call the shots.

Pretty sure you would blast anyone that posted a conspiracy theory like this. Hahn said Lin wanted to be a Rocket. Berger said the contract was untradeable. There is a lot of good information out there about the uniqueness of this situation and why the Knicks should have or shouldn't have matched. The only emotion I have heard referenced in everything that I have read about this was that the Knicks were upset that the Rockets broke an unwritten rule and changed the contract they negotiated during the moratorium (Amick's column).