Knicks · Other teams in East improved or regressed? (page 1)

Ill start off by saying that I think the Knicks have improved. No matter what--the PG position offers much more stability from game 1 from starter to back up and Jason Kidd comes with a winners pedigree. We also have improved on interior defense with Camnby and KT although it will be up to our coach to use both sparingly--especially Camby to get the best combination of production while limiting injury(which is key) Our shooting guard position still needs to be improved. Im not big on Smith as a starter and we have no idea when of if Shumpert will be back+ hes not really a SG. I have to assume with the names we see out there that this is priority 1 right now. Our season depends moreso on how we can stay injury free and use the depth to cut down on collective minutes much like what the Spurs do. Id like to see Tyson Chandlers FGA's go up--he is one of the best % players in the league--we have older PGs who know what to do at all times and we need to move away from centric ball to mobile and attempt to get easier looks. The key to our season is health. If we remain healthy --this will be the only season IMHO of the next 3 that we have a chance to compete for a championship---guys will get older and were stuck with them--its win now or bust and we do haev a legit chance.

Nets --improved but truly a strange brew that will take time to mesh even with the talent upgrade. This team is desperately in need of Brook Lopez staying healthy as its the smallest team in the league---they have 1 player taller than 6-9--Lopez--if he goes down you cannot compete in the nBA that small. Lopez also has to pick it up as well and play a more physical brand of basketball. I do NOT think the Nets are as good as the Knicks---UNLESS Lopez is a healthy 22-8-1.5 C--then it will be close.

Bucks --quietly a much improved ballclub that have some scary matchups. They had a solid draft and when you go up and down the roster you cant say thats a guy who will sit for sure--they are a deep talented team --especially in the backcourt and have multiple long defenders in the frontcourt good rebounding outside shooting etc... its an improved team a team that will have to find a rotation that fits them best.

Indiana--improved they have more size that they did not have in the frontcourt and improved off their bench with Green and Augustine. This team IMHO is a tad better than the Knicks

Miami--they added Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis who give them an improved bench and depth. They really did not address their one weakness--in the middle but thid is a unique team that plays outside in and these players help the cause.

Boston --improved its SG position and bench despite losing Allen by adding Lee and Terry. Whole season rests on the ability of KG to stay healthy. Added some size in the draft--no idea if its good enough to contribute in the nBA yet

Washington improved but its not a good team--just better than a 20 win team

Raptors upgrade their PG position quite dramatically with Lowry in overall team ball at the C position with Jonas Valanciunas and have added athletes on the wings with Ross and Fields. This team could be a .500 team--a vast improvement from 23 wins but short of upper echelon teams.

Regression--Hawks Bulls(as of now) Sixers Orlando--all slight to moderately worse as of now unless Howard moves

Does not matter Charlotte DEtroit and Cleveland

Miami's biggest weakness is inside. And the easiest way to crack the code is to have elite inside scoring supported by excellent PG penetration and passing. In Lin we lost the best penetrating guard we have had in a while, but Felton can still be useful if he can breathe life into the battered and beaten corpse of Amare Stoudamire and get him close to the PnR greatness he once enjoyed. the problem is that the Heat's defense is excellent against guard play so we need a good offensive system - this for me is the biggest worry or the Knicks going into this season. We didn't even look to upgrade on this position and we continued with this very one dimensional coach. I thought the Knicks front office would have learned their lesson by now about people who primarily coach one side of the ball. But this is the Knicks.

East has improved but so have we. Terry was a big upgrade for Boston and Ray was huge for Miami. The nets got JJ but I still think we're better. Chicago didn't need rose last year in the reg season but well see if they can repeat their performance without him. Potentially, we could grab the top seed. But I think Miami and Boston mesh better. Bkn, Chi, and Ind might also. We could be looking at another low playoff seed if we don't play up to our potential. I would guess about the 4 seed especially if we start slow like we usually do.

Only teams in the East at this point that are better than us are the Heat, Celts and Bulls (assuming Rose gets back at some point and the is close to his oldself.)

I think we have the talent to finish as the 4th best team in the east, a tad better than the Pacers. Essentially, the Pacers replaced Collison with Augustine and in my eyes is a step back. Green is better than Jones so it evens out I guess. But, after Woodson took over, before the injuries we were a better team than the Pacers and I believe we still are. The Sixers, Hawks and Magic all take major steps back.

Would love for Woodson to get creative with his rotations and play Kidd with Chandler for extended periods because of familiarity and Kidds vision will get Chandler a few more easy shots per. Would also love to see Camby out there with Stat for long stretches. Camby wont get in Stats way the way Chandler does and would still provide the rebounding and defensive help Stat needs when he's on the floor.

SG is our glaring weakness. JR is super hot and cold as we all know which makes for a perfect 6th man. Until Shump gets back, I think we'll see a combo of Kidd/Felton in at the same time quite a bit. Smallish backcourt but not as small as a typical pg combo would look. We will lack some shooting with this combo but it does give us two willing ball movers in at the same time....

Uptown wrote:Only teams in the East at this point that are better than us are the Heat, Celts and Bulls (assuming Rose gets back at some point and the is close to his oldself.)

I think we have the talent to finish as the 4th best team in the east, a tad better than the Pacers. Essentially, the Pacers replaced Collison with Augustine and in my eyes is a step back. Green is better than Jones so it evens out I guess. But, after Woodson took over, before the injuries we were a better team than the Pacers and I believe we still are. The Sixers, Hawks and Magic all take major steps back.

Would love for Woodson to get creative with his rotations and play Kidd with Chandler for extended periods because of familiarity and Kidds vision will get Chandler a few more easy shots per. Would also love to see Camby out there with Stat for long stretches. Camby wont get in Stats way the way Chandler does and would still provide the rebounding and defensive help Stat needs when he's on the floor.

SG is our glaring weakness. JR is super hot and cold as we all know which makes for a perfect 6th man. Until Shump gets back, I think we'll see a combo of Kidd/Felton in at the same time quite a bit. Smallish backcourt but not as small as a typical pg combo would look. We will lack some shooting with this combo but it does give us two willing ball movers in at the same time....

I think the pacers had a lot of breaks last year especially playing the magic in the playoffs. I still think they are a good team but wont be as good

Chicago's regressed with Rose's injury and them losing Wilson and Asik. Miami's improved with Allen. Indy is probably about the same. Boston improved with Jason Terry and a pretty good draft. Orlando will be worse whenever they get around to trading Dwight. Atlanta is trying to get worse since they've been going nowhere fast. Philly's worse and will be out of the playoffs. Milwaukee is a little improved and Brooklyn is greatly improved, from last season. Based on the teams' rosters right now I'd predict final standings of: Miami, Boston, Indy, Chicago, NY, Milwaukee, Atlanta, and Brooklyn.

BRIGGS wrote:Nets --improved but truly a strange brew that will take time to mesh even with the talent upgrade. This team is desperately in need of Brook Lopez staying healthy as its the smallest team in the league---they have 1 player taller than 6-9--Lopez--if he goes down you cannot compete in the nBA that small. Lopez also has to pick it up as well and play a more physical brand of basketball. I do NOT think the Nets are as good as the Knicks---UNLESS Lopez is a healthy 22-8-1.5 C--then it will be close.

Honestly, I expect Brook rebounds and blocks to go up. His rebounding and FG% numbers went down as he became more of a focal point of the offense. I don't think Brook is the type of talent who can get you 20 and 10, but I thin he's well rounded center wh can get you 17 points, 9.5 rebounds and 1.5 blocks. He probably won't have to work as hard on offense this coming season, so I can see his rebound numbers bouncing back. He'll never be a max player, but who cares. The owners, despite all of the nonsense they made us endure with the lockout, obviously don't care. So why should anyone else?

Ray Allen cant play defense anymore. I wonder how much the Heat will play him. I dont think he has much left to be honest. Im glad the knicks didnt go after him. Rashard Lewis looked done as well but probably gets 10 ppg 5 boards opn the Heat which will be a steal for what they are paying

On paper I think the Knicks are either 1 spot better or worse than Boston. They quietly had a great offseason and I think they're going to be better than last year if Garnett can stay at the same level. Even with Rose I don't think the Bulls are better than us and they got worse this offseason. Brooklyn is going to be good but they're not very deep. They'll win around 45 games. Miami will be great again. Even if Wade misses time they'll be great. It's going to take some effort to dethrone them in the east.

Miami
Boston
New York
Indiana
Brooklyn
Chicago
Milwaukee
Philadelphia

When this team was engaged at the end of the year, very few teams beat the Knicks. I think this team is top 3 easy IMO. I think the way this team has developed a culture of defense is gonna be huge going forward. Heat, Celtics, Knicks... I think the Knicks have just about everything they need to be a top contender in the East. I do wish we were a bit more dynamic offensively, but no team is perfect. This team is really about playing tough D now. I think they've got to hang their hat on that and pounding teams with Melo and STAT, who I think are still top scoring threats in the league when healthy and in shape, which I believe they're both gonna be this season.

Briggs - You're spot on.

Good summary, Briggs.

I think the key to beating the Heat, is to attack their frontcourt, and slow the game down. Ground and pound inside with Amare and Melo, with selective fast breaks led by Felton and Kidd. If we play turnover free and efficient halfcourt bball, and in your face gritty D, we have a chance. None of the other teams really scare me, outside of Boston, which we always seem to play close and lose on last minute daggers. Nets look good offensively on paper, but no one really fears Broke Lopez inside.

MSG3 wrote:On paper I think the Knicks are either 1 spot better or worse than Boston. They quietly had a great offseason and I think they're going to be better than last year if Garnett can stay at the same level. Even with Rose I don't think the Bulls are better than us and they got worse this offseason. Brooklyn is going to be good but they're not very deep. They'll win around 45 games. Miami will be great again. Even if Wade misses time they'll be great. It's going to take some effort to dethrone them in the east.

Miami
Boston
New York
Indiana
Brooklyn
Chicago
Milwaukee
Philadelphia

my personal opinion, I think we can be ANYWHERE SOUTH OF BOSTON on this list.

The Knicks deserve no credit till they earn it. They half assed the entire season and finished in 7th place, without Lin we don't make the playoffs and the season explodes.

This team has so many if's it's not even amusing. Does Melo come in motivated and in shape and not act like a diva if the ball is moving. Is Felton going to play his way into shape or be in shape. Is Kidd going to play like he did last season because he was medicore, does camby stay healthy, when can we expect Iman back, does he recover, will we get outside shooting, does amare regain his explosion.

We should be the third best team in the conference. If we are not, which will likely happen then our guys aren't giving it their all.

RonRon wrote:

MSG3 wrote:On paper I think the Knicks are either 1 spot better or worse than Boston. They quietly had a great offseason and I think they're going to be better than last year if Garnett can stay at the same level. Even with Rose I don't think the Bulls are better than us and they got worse this offseason. Brooklyn is going to be good but they're not very deep. They'll win around 45 games. Miami will be great again. Even if Wade misses time they'll be great. It's going to take some effort to dethrone them in the east.

Miami
Boston
New York
Indiana
Brooklyn
Chicago
Milwaukee
Philadelphia

my personal opinion, I think we can be ANYWHERE SOUTH OF BOSTON on this list.

I disagree. I actually think there's a chance that the Knicks could end up 2nd to the Heat. I just think that teams are gonna have to live on the perimeter against the Knicks this year. I think it's gonna be harder for teams to get a good flow against the Knicks and with a somewhat slower pace overall I think this team will win a lot of games this year.

With older guards like Kidd and Prigioni it's possible we'll see them use a zone. With bigs like Tyson and Camby that could really be a good option defensively for periods of the game. Against the really quick teams the Knicks may give up a few more fastbreaks this year, but so long as they execute efficiently on offense, that can be controlled.

Don't underestimate the mental approach to defense that adding Kidd, Camby, Felton and KT will have on this team. Vets all know that defense is a huge key to winning and they'll be very committed to it along with Woody and Tyson. That will have a big impact on everyone else.

I'm not trying to be negative, but I can easily see a scenario where the knicks finish out of the play offs.

Who gets our pick again this year?

Who did we add this off season that we can realistically expect to contribute who isn't 38+ years old or perpetually out of shape?

Unlike Boston and Miami and some other teams in the east, we have proven nothing, except we tend to under perform to fans expectations.

I hope we turn this around this year.

franco12 wrote:I'm not trying to be negative, but I can easily see a scenario where the knicks finish out of the play offs.

Who gets our pick again this year?

Who did we add this off season that we can realistically expect to contribute who isn't 38+ years old or perpetually out of shape?

Unlike Boston and Miami and some other teams in the east, we have proven nothing, except we tend to under perform to fans expectations.

I hope we turn this around this year.

I'm not trying to be negative, but I can easily see a scenario where the knicks finish out of the play offs.

List the 8 teams that will finish ahead of the Knicks....

Who gets our pick again this year?

What does this have to do with wins and loses next year?

Who did we add this off season that we can realistically expect to contribute who isn't 38+ years old or perpetually out of shape?

So any contributions from Camby and Kidd are null and void for next season? Why are you putting an age limit on production? Camby will help tremendously on the defensive end and on the boards and Kidds ability to run an offense will help Chandler and Amare's production on the offensive end. BTW, Felton is under 38....

Unlike Boston and Miami and some other teams in the east, we have proven nothing, except we tend to under perform to fans expectations.

If you are predicting that we finish outside of the playoffs, then you're saying a bunch of unproven teams will finish ahead of us. What have the Nets proved? How about the Bucks?

franco12 wrote:I'm not trying to be negative, but I can easily see a scenario where the knicks finish out of the play offs.

Who gets our pick again this year?

Who did we add this off season that we can realistically expect to contribute who isn't 38+ years old or perpetually out of shape?

Unlike Boston and Miami and some other teams in the east, we have proven nothing, except we tend to under perform to fans expectations.

I hope we turn this around this year.

Knicks have their own 1st round 2013 pick this year and in 2015.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/bas...

we still do not have one player that we can use as a LEBRON/DURANT/RUDY GAY/AI/ etc, to use on them.
The mobile forward that moves as quick/fast as a guard, but has the size of PF, and can shoot 3pointers.
I am not too impressed with Pietrus, watching his boneheaded fouls vs Lebron in the playoffs, especially with his surgery.
I watched White aka FLIGHT, he was really out of shape, I would have preferred Delfino, Keith Bogans, Sonny Weems, and just about anyone cause couldn't even dominate in Summer League.

We cannot expect Melo to be this person, it would exhaust him.
While Battier/Rashard Lewis would be used by the Heat for them.

We only have 1 roster spot left and Copeland which can be cut at anytime.
I think the Knicks need a vet min guy with our holes but if players gets waived during the season, and we have interest, they only have Copeland who they can drop.
So for the final roster spot, even though we have needs at a PF/C that can play along Tyson/Camby/Amare.
And we don't have a Lebron/Durant stopper at the SF/PF.

If you guys had to choose between Copeland and Adam Morrision, who would you guys choose?
If we had more versatile players, saving roster spots, I wouldn't mind having both of them.
I personally rather have Morrison, because he has a sense of the competition in the NBA, but Copeland looks like he is a SLIGHTLY better defender, shot blocker, and rebounder, especially at the PF spot.
Morrison is never going to live up to his pick but if he just concentrates on what he does best, vs trying to create off the dribble, he could be a good rotation player on the right team.
He would have to play at least decent defense and a decent rebounder at least *better than STAT*.

I expect Grunweld to make another trade by the deadline, I would make a push for Brandon Rush.
It is always good to have multiple shooters and Morrison has been lighting it up in Summer League.
If there is a trade, I would not be surprised if we moved Novak and/or JR Smith to save money and get back an asset.
For JR Smith, it would depend on how Kidd, Brewer, JR Smith are producing. Of course how Iman is looking during rehab.
Kidd will be playing SG and even defending the SF at times, like he did with Dallas because he just does not have the speed to keep up with guards that have quickness/speed/and athleticism.
He is very strong and has good hands, with decent defense if he came here to play and not just NY as a retirement bonus.