Knicks · Not to beat a dead horse, but... (page 16)
VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).
According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.
Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.
smackeddog wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).
According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.
Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.
His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.
VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).
According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.
Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.
His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.
His impact is beyond the stats, but even using those he's making less than a similar player in Ramon sessions.
knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).
According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.
Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.
His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.
His impact is beyond the stats, but even using those he's making less than a similar player in Ramon sessions.
Please, people keep on saying he has all these intangibles but I haven't seen it. Larry Brown, the ultimate intangibles guy, didn't mind losing him and I'm pretty sure Denver fans and Portland fans would disagree with you. Certain Knicks fans are in love with him because he replaced Duhon who was terrible.
VCoug wrote:knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).
According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.
Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.
His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.
His impact is beyond the stats, but even using those he's making less than a similar player in Ramon sessions.Please, people keep on saying he has all these intangibles but I haven't seen it. Larry Brown, the ultimate intangibles guy, didn't mind losing him and I'm pretty sure Denver fans and Portland fans would disagree with you. Certain Knicks fans are in love with him because he replaced Duhon who was terrible.
what?
Brown had no choice but to lose him, jordan is a cheapskate.....
Larry Brown had nothing but praise for Felton, even to the point of calling him a quality replacement for Lin.
Denver certainly didn't hate him, Portland was more lockout influenced, but that whole team was terrible.
Also, the Knicks could have used the stretch provision to soften the tax hit of the poison pill. That's a part of the dead horse that hasn't been properly and thoroughly mangled yet. People who insist that this was all about the poison pill don't want to touch the stretch provision bc it doesn't fit their storyline.
limpidgimp wrote:I think Grunwald knows what he's doing, even if he doesn't agree with the directives he's been given. He's certainly competent enough to anticipate that a poison pill could be coming. People who speculate that the FO was surprised about the structure of the contract actually make the FO look totally incompetent. That may have been the case, but you can't have it both ways: you can't defend the FO as making the right moves while also saying they are totally clueless about the basic details of their profession.Also, the Knicks could have used the stretch provision to soften the tax hit of the poison pill. That's a part of the dead horse that hasn't been properly and thoroughly mangled yet. People who insist that this was all about the poison pill don't want to touch the stretch provision bc it doesn't fit their storyline.
You can't stretch it, unless you waive the player.
The Knicks are not stretching a one year 15 million payment, it would be easier to just let it expire.
knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).
According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.
Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.
His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.
His impact is beyond the stats, but even using those he's making less than a similar player in Ramon sessions.Please, people keep on saying he has all these intangibles but I haven't seen it. Larry Brown, the ultimate intangibles guy, didn't mind losing him and I'm pretty sure Denver fans and Portland fans would disagree with you. Certain Knicks fans are in love with him because he replaced Duhon who was terrible.
what?
Brown had no choice but to lose him, jordan is a cheapskate.....
Larry Brown had nothing but praise for Felton, even to the point of calling him a quality replacement for Lin.
Denver certainly didn't hate him, Portland was more lockout influenced, but that whole team was terrible.
Denver absolutely didn't like him; he bitched and moaned when he got there and the Nuggets dumped him the first chance they got. And it sure doesn't seem like Charlotte really cared about him leaving.
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2011/6/8/219...
http://www.rufusonfire.com/2010/11/22/18...
VCoug wrote:knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).
According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.
Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.
His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.
His impact is beyond the stats, but even using those he's making less than a similar player in Ramon sessions.Please, people keep on saying he has all these intangibles but I haven't seen it. Larry Brown, the ultimate intangibles guy, didn't mind losing him and I'm pretty sure Denver fans and Portland fans would disagree with you. Certain Knicks fans are in love with him because he replaced Duhon who was terrible.
what?
Brown had no choice but to lose him, jordan is a cheapskate.....
Larry Brown had nothing but praise for Felton, even to the point of calling him a quality replacement for Lin.
Denver certainly didn't hate him, Portland was more lockout influenced, but that whole team was terrible.
Denver absolutely didn't like him; he bitched and moaned when he got there and the Nuggets dumped him the first chance they got. And it sure doesn't seem like Charlotte really cared about him leaving.
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2011/6/8/219...
http://www.rufusonfire.com/2010/11/22/18...
that article on the bottom gave more props than disses.
here is something for you to read.....
http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landingblazer...
In 2009-10, Brown guided the Bobcats to a 44-38 record and their only playoff appearance. After a slow start the next season, Jordan replaced Brown with Paul Silas. That team finished 34-48.
"I'm sick about it because we made the playoffs the first time they ever made the playoffs. We got rid of Raymond Felton without getting anything back -- one of the greatest kids I ever coached in my life. We got rid of Tyson Chandler who only played 50 games or so for us."
knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).
According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.
Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.
His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.
His impact is beyond the stats, but even using those he's making less than a similar player in Ramon sessions.Please, people keep on saying he has all these intangibles but I haven't seen it. Larry Brown, the ultimate intangibles guy, didn't mind losing him and I'm pretty sure Denver fans and Portland fans would disagree with you. Certain Knicks fans are in love with him because he replaced Duhon who was terrible.
what?
Brown had no choice but to lose him, jordan is a cheapskate.....
Larry Brown had nothing but praise for Felton, even to the point of calling him a quality replacement for Lin.
Denver certainly didn't hate him, Portland was more lockout influenced, but that whole team was terrible.
Denver absolutely didn't like him; he bitched and moaned when he got there and the Nuggets dumped him the first chance they got. And it sure doesn't seem like Charlotte really cared about him leaving.
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2011/6/8/219...
http://www.rufusonfire.com/2010/11/22/18...that article on the bottom gave more props than disses.
here is something for you to read.....
http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landingblazer...
In 2009-10, Brown guided the Bobcats to a 44-38 record and their only playoff appearance. After a slow start the next season, Jordan replaced Brown with Paul Silas. That team finished 34-48.
"I'm sick about it because we made the playoffs the first time they ever made the playoffs. We got rid of Raymond Felton without getting anything back -- one of the greatest kids I ever coached in my life. We got rid of Tyson Chandler who only played 50 games or so for us."
I don't give a shit what Larry Brown has to say, he's a great coach but he falls in and out of love with his players. And, if I remember correctly, who used to say the same sort of stuff about Aaron McKie.
VCoug wrote:knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:knickscity wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:VCoug wrote:smackeddog wrote:Just as a side note about a point TKF made- the reason we gave 3 year deals to Camby and Felton is that that is the minimum length you can give a player acquired via a sign and trade. Why we gave 3 years to Kidd, I have absolutely no idea though- maybe he agreed to retire after 2 if he's ineffective.Camby's deal is basically 2 years, with only a small amount guaranteed for the third- like I said it was just done that way because 3yrs is the least we could offer (plus it'll be a nice trade chip in the third year).
According to hoopshype Felton actually has a four year deal.
Yep, the 4th year is a player option, for his security in case he sucks. Basically if he plays as he has for most of his career he'll opt out after the 3rd year, because he'll have been way underpaid for 3 years.
His career averages are 13.4ppg, 6.7apg, 1.3spg, 41% fg, and 33% 3fg. I wouldn't call $4M+/year underpaid.
His impact is beyond the stats, but even using those he's making less than a similar player in Ramon sessions.Please, people keep on saying he has all these intangibles but I haven't seen it. Larry Brown, the ultimate intangibles guy, didn't mind losing him and I'm pretty sure Denver fans and Portland fans would disagree with you. Certain Knicks fans are in love with him because he replaced Duhon who was terrible.
what?
Brown had no choice but to lose him, jordan is a cheapskate.....
Larry Brown had nothing but praise for Felton, even to the point of calling him a quality replacement for Lin.
Denver certainly didn't hate him, Portland was more lockout influenced, but that whole team was terrible.
Denver absolutely didn't like him; he bitched and moaned when he got there and the Nuggets dumped him the first chance they got. And it sure doesn't seem like Charlotte really cared about him leaving.
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2011/6/8/219...
http://www.rufusonfire.com/2010/11/22/18...that article on the bottom gave more props than disses.
here is something for you to read.....
http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landingblazer...
In 2009-10, Brown guided the Bobcats to a 44-38 record and their only playoff appearance. After a slow start the next season, Jordan replaced Brown with Paul Silas. That team finished 34-48.
"I'm sick about it because we made the playoffs the first time they ever made the playoffs. We got rid of Raymond Felton without getting anything back -- one of the greatest kids I ever coached in my life. We got rid of Tyson Chandler who only played 50 games or so for us."
I don't give a shit what Larry Brown has to say, he's a great coach but he falls in and out of love with his players. And, if I remember correctly, who used to say the same sort of stuff about Aaron McKie.
I'd trust Larry Brown over a blogger.
the point is, they didn't hate Felton in charlotte, and he didn't want to play in denver at all and felt dissed he took less money to get traded in the first place.
The entire Portlan squad played like ass.
Its all just wonderful!
If Coon is being interpreted correctly......(Snicker, Chuckle)
Then the knicks had to let him go get a number.
Ok, IM wrong. WOn't be the first time.
But, Knicks still failed. Im not the one running to feed my star players in a steak house with TMZ lurking professing I ate cow with my starting PG.
Clumsy again.
Knicks: "We gonna match, he is our PG"
We can all agree on that.
End result: Lin is a Rocket.
Conclusion: Fail!
Why some of you are all about Saving Dolan's rep and praise the new era of fiscal responsibility after this man clearly has demonstrated an inability to care about money or the fans?
It all falls on the owner. Layden, isiah, Marbury, Dice, Melo, 23 game winning seasons, Zbo, Francis, Eddy, embarrassing lawsuits, etc......
Its all on the owner. Love the team, but lets put it straight: this man sucks.
I root for the team in uniform! I root for the coach's to succeed! I root for wins.
I don't root for the guys that "Want to be here" as if they are doing me a favor!
But their actions said alot.
Nalod wrote:Felton "wants" to be here.Its all just wonderful!
If Coon is being interpreted correctly......(Snicker, Chuckle)
Then the knicks had to let him go get a number.
Ok, IM wrong. WOn't be the first time.
But, Knicks still failed. Im not the one running to feed my star players in a steak house with TMZ lurking professing I ate cow with my starting PG.
Clumsy again.
Knicks: "We gonna match, he is our PG"
We can all agree on that.
End result: Lin is a Rocket.
Conclusion: Fail!
Why some of you are all about Saving Dolan's rep and praise the new era of fiscal responsibility after this man clearly has demonstrated an inability to care about money or the fans?
It all falls on the owner. Layden, isiah, Marbury, Dice, Melo, 23 game winning seasons, Zbo, Francis, Eddy, embarrassing lawsuits, etc......
Its all on the owner. Love the team, but lets put it straight: this man sucks.
I root for the team in uniform! I root for the coach's to succeed! I root for wins.
I don't root for the guys that "Want to be here" as if they are doing me a favor!
AGREE, and the funny thing is, they "want to be here" at the highest price of course...
limpidgimp wrote:I think Grunwald knows what he's doing, even if he doesn't agree with the directives he's been given. He's certainly competent enough to anticipate that a poison pill could be coming. People who speculate that the FO was surprised about the structure of the contract actually make the FO look totally incompetent. That may have been the case, but you can't have it both ways: you can't defend the FO as making the right moves while also saying they are totally clueless about the basic details of their profession.Also, the Knicks could have used the stretch provision to soften the tax hit of the poison pill. That's a part of the dead horse that hasn't been properly and thoroughly mangled yet. People who insist that this was all about the poison pill don't want to touch the stretch provision bc it doesn't fit their storyline.
The stretch provision involves a team waiving a player and stretching out the salary over several years to lessen the cap hit. I don't know if you sign a guy with the intentions of waiving him after 2 years.
Nalod wrote:Hopefully next time it doesn't take 11 pages and over 300 replies for you to figure this out. At least you got it.
Ok, IM wrong. WOn't be the first time.
StraightShot wrote:It's understandable that fans are upset about Lin's leaving, but a decision had to be made, and it was made based on the long-term best interests of the franchise, not what was popular with the fans over the short term. This is a departure from the thinking of a few years ago, so I find it very encouraging. We have moved from a short-term decision making process to a longer view, and that is a good thing.
what about our team screams long term decision making? we signed 2 guys who will be 40 soon to 3 year deals.....not matching lin was silly, had nothing with sound decision making... it was personal, in true, dolan, dirtbag fashion....
tkf wrote:StraightShot wrote:It's understandable that fans are upset about Lin's leaving, but a decision had to be made, and it was made based on the long-term best interests of the franchise, not what was popular with the fans over the short term. This is a departure from the thinking of a few years ago, so I find it very encouraging. We have moved from a short-term decision making process to a longer view, and that is a good thing.what about our team screams long term decision making? we signed 2 guys who will be 40 soon to 3 year deals.....not matching lin was silly, had nothing with sound decision making... it was personal, in true, dolan, dirtbag fashion....
Those guys aren't 50mil dollar investments each though. I don't really care for Dolan or like him to much for that matter, but he has every right to not match that contract if its going to end up costing him 50mil. Lin has way to may question marks surrounding him to invest that type of money toward from a pure buisness standpoint even if it was personal. Its one thing if it was a bargain price and Dolan still didn't match out of principal then we can claim it was personal. But when its going to cost you 50mil then personal or not its a risky buisness move. Yea its not my money, but I'm not going to knock the person whos money it is for not wanting to spend it given the risk.
I think if Lin would have went back and got a 4yr deal like 5-5-5-9 or 5-5-7-7, it would have been the same money but the Knicks would have been more willing to match that deal. The 14mil 3rd yr was clearly set to kill off interest, most teams in the NBA don't match that contract.
holfresh wrote:Ha...You complain when Dolan spends money to get players to come here and complain when he doesn't spend 50 mil plus on a player with 35 NBA games under his belt, on his second knee surgery in as many years....
Who is this ambiguous "you"? I want Dolan to clear cap space for year 3 so that we don't have so many overpaid 40 year olds. Luxury tax with Lin is a non-issue unless Dolan foolishly keeps this exact roster intact through year 3.