Knicks · It starts with Camby (page 4)

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnickFan - so you are saying that other than dunking in people's faces and protecting the paint, Tyson Chandler is not that good?

No i was talking about Novak. When did i ever mention Tyson? I love Tyson in fact i feel he is the captain. I also love Novak but i was just saying that his defense needs work. Misterearl i was agreeing with YOU

what it seems he is saying is does being one dimensional equals not that good?

exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

did Lin shoot 57% against Miami?

Novak shot well by the numbers against Miami in the playoffs but when he's referred to as 1 dimensional it couldn't be anymore true

4-9fg 44%
4-7fg 57%3pt

So of his 9fg attempts 80% of them were 3pt shots. Being that he played about 17min/gm over 5gms and only got off 9shots is indicative of his limitations.

0fta
0ast
0stls
1blk
15reb

tkf wrote:
exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

Lin had plenty of multiple turnover games against teams other than Miami. It is odd that you continue to act like Lin only had one bad game in regards to ball handling.

From 2/6/12 to 2/26/12 Lin had games with the following # of turnovers

8
2
6
6
8
6
9
7
3
4
8
1

Here is the link to Lin's stats for each game he played: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4795/gamelog;_ylt=ApDOmimo3l6qjce7ARpR6rCkvLYF

Lin obviously and indisputably was turnover prone and struggled against any sort of on ball pressure. This resulted in turnovers and/or getting the offense started after the shot clock has ran down considerably.

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

Lin had plenty of multiple turnover games against teams other than Miami. It is odd that you continue to act like Lin only had one bad game in regards to ball handling.

From 2/6/12 to 2/26/12 Lin had games with the following # of turnovers

8
2
6
6
8
6
9
7
3
4
8
1

Here is the link to Lin's stats for each game he played: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4795/gamelog;_ylt=ApDOmimo3l6qjce7ARpR6rCkvLYF

Lin obviously and indisputably was turnover prone and struggled against any sort of on ball pressure. This resulted in turnovers and/or getting the offense started after the shot clock has ran down considerably.

True Lin was turnover prone but he was basically a rookie who lets face it had a lot of pressure especially when melo/amere were out

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

Lin had plenty of multiple turnover games against teams other than Miami. It is odd that you continue to act like Lin only had one bad game in regards to ball handling.

From 2/6/12 to 2/26/12 Lin had games with the following # of turnovers

8
2
6
6
8
6
9
7
3
4
8
1

Here is the link to Lin's stats for each game he played: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4795/gamelog;_ylt=ApDOmimo3l6qjce7ARpR6rCkvLYF

Lin obviously and indisputably was turnover prone and struggled against any sort of on ball pressure. This resulted in turnovers and/or getting the offense started after the shot clock has ran down considerably.

True Lin was turnover prone but he was basically a rookie who lets face it had a lot of pressure especially when melo/amere were out

I am not even criticizing Lin. I am just pointing out that TKF's refusal to acknowledge Lin's horrid ball handling against multiple teams is nuts. TKF continues to pretend that Lin's turnover parade was limited to one game against the Heat. This is just not true.

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

Lin had plenty of multiple turnover games against teams other than Miami. It is odd that you continue to act like Lin only had one bad game in regards to ball handling.

From 2/6/12 to 2/26/12 Lin had games with the following # of turnovers

8
2
6
6
8
6
9
7
3
4
8
1

Here is the link to Lin's stats for each game he played: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4795/gamelog;_ylt=ApDOmimo3l6qjce7ARpR6rCkvLYF

Lin obviously and indisputably was turnover prone and struggled against any sort of on ball pressure. This resulted in turnovers and/or getting the offense started after the shot clock has ran down considerably.

True Lin was turnover prone but he was basically a rookie who lets face it had a lot of pressure especially when melo/amere were out

I am not even criticizing Lin, I am just pointing out that TKF's refusal to acknowledge Lin's horrid ball handling against multiple teams is nuts. TKF continues to pretend that Lin's turnover parade was limited to one game against the Heat

I think of you have a similar problem TKF with lin and you with melo

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

Lin had plenty of multiple turnover games against teams other than Miami. It is odd that you continue to act like Lin only had one bad game in regards to ball handling.

From 2/6/12 to 2/26/12 Lin had games with the following # of turnovers

8
2
6
6
8
6
9
7
3
4
8
1

Here is the link to Lin's stats for each game he played: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4795/gamelog;_ylt=ApDOmimo3l6qjce7ARpR6rCkvLYF

Lin obviously and indisputably was turnover prone and struggled against any sort of on ball pressure. This resulted in turnovers and/or getting the offense started after the shot clock has ran down considerably.

True Lin was turnover prone but he was basically a rookie who lets face it had a lot of pressure especially when melo/amere were out

I am not even criticizing Lin, I am just pointing out that TKF's refusal to acknowledge Lin's horrid ball handling against multiple teams is nuts. TKF continues to pretend that Lin's turnover parade was limited to one game against the Heat

I think of you have a similar problem TKF with lin and you with melo

I think you have an issue differentiating facts from hyperbole. I simply stated Lin was grossly prone to turnovers. I posted stats verifying this. I did not say Lin was a career loser, cancer, selfish or a scrub. Lin was a player that was overly prone to turnover the ball even for a young player. I say even for a young player because other true-rookies did not turn the ball over as much as Lin last season.

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

Lin had plenty of multiple turnover games against teams other than Miami. It is odd that you continue to act like Lin only had one bad game in regards to ball handling.

From 2/6/12 to 2/26/12 Lin had games with the following # of turnovers

8
2
6
6
8
6
9
7
3
4
8
1

Here is the link to Lin's stats for each game he played: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4795/gamelog;_ylt=ApDOmimo3l6qjce7ARpR6rCkvLYF

Lin obviously and indisputably was turnover prone and struggled against any sort of on ball pressure. This resulted in turnovers and/or getting the offense started after the shot clock has ran down considerably.

True Lin was turnover prone but he was basically a rookie who lets face it had a lot of pressure especially when melo/amere were out

I am not even criticizing Lin, I am just pointing out that TKF's refusal to acknowledge Lin's horrid ball handling against multiple teams is nuts. TKF continues to pretend that Lin's turnover parade was limited to one game against the Heat

I think of you have a similar problem TKF with lin and you with melo

I think you have an issue differentiating facts from hyperbole. I simply stated Lin was grossly prone to turnovers. I posted stats verifying this. I did not say Lin was a career loser, cancer, selfish or a scrub. Lin was a player that was overly prone to turnover the ball even for a young player. I say even for a young player because other true-rookies did not turn the ball over as much as Lin last season.

You misintepreted i was agreeing with you about lin

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:
exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

Lin had plenty of multiple turnover games against teams other than Miami. It is odd that you continue to act like Lin only had one bad game in regards to ball handling.

From 2/6/12 to 2/26/12 Lin had games with the following # of turnovers

8
2
6
6
8
6
9
7
3
4
8
1

Here is the link to Lin's stats for each game he played: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4795/gamelog;_ylt=ApDOmimo3l6qjce7ARpR6rCkvLYF

Lin obviously and indisputably was turnover prone and struggled against any sort of on ball pressure. This resulted in turnovers and/or getting the offense started after the shot clock has ran down considerably.

True Lin was turnover prone but he was basically a rookie who lets face it had a lot of pressure especially when melo/amere were out

I am not even criticizing Lin, I am just pointing out that TKF's refusal to acknowledge Lin's horrid ball handling against multiple teams is nuts. TKF continues to pretend that Lin's turnover parade was limited to one game against the Heat

I think of you have a similar problem TKF with lin and you with melo

I think you have an issue differentiating facts from hyperbole. I simply stated Lin was grossly prone to turnovers. I posted stats verifying this. I did not say Lin was a career loser, cancer, selfish or a scrub. Lin was a player that was overly prone to turnover the ball even for a young player. I say even for a young player because other true-rookies did not turn the ball over as much as Lin last season.

I can agree with this....but

The same can be said when it's proven statistically and factually that Melo is not the "BEST PURE SCORER" and he's a major playoff underachiever in the league yet so many of you will come into the thread stomping feet/pulling hairs out/gnashing teeth over this

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnickFan - so you are saying that other than dunking in people's faces and protecting the paint, Tyson Chandler is not that good?

No i was talking about Novak. When did i ever mention Tyson? I love Tyson in fact i feel he is the captain. I also love Novak but i was just saying that his defense needs work. Misterearl i was agreeing with YOU

what it seems he is saying is does being one dimensional equals not that good?

exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

did Lin shoot 57% against Miami?

Novak shot well by the numbers against Miami in the playoffs but when he's referred to as 1 dimensional it couldn't be anymore true

4-9fg 44%
4-7fg 57%3pt

So of his 9fg attempts 80% of them were 3pt shots. Being that he played about 17min/gm over 5gms and only got off 9shots is indicative of his limitations.

0fta
0ast
0stls
1blk
15reb

He played 17 minutes because guys were dropping like flies.

but the point was novak not being that good.

He is that good at what he does.

If he wasn't he wouldn't have shot 57% from three against the Heat.

Lin cut down on his turnovers under Woodson and once Melo and Amare came back the ball was not in Lin's hands 100% of the time. Turnovers will be high for a rookie who has the ball in his hands all the time. And no 2nd ballhandler on the court with him. Certainly not Fields. Shump was the guy but Dantoni had him on the bench for Fields when Lin was committing all those turnovers

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnickFan - so you are saying that other than dunking in people's faces and protecting the paint, Tyson Chandler is not that good?

No i was talking about Novak. When did i ever mention Tyson? I love Tyson in fact i feel he is the captain. I also love Novak but i was just saying that his defense needs work. Misterearl i was agreeing with YOU

what it seems he is saying is does being one dimensional equals not that good?

exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

did Lin shoot 57% against Miami?

Novak shot well by the numbers against Miami in the playoffs but when he's referred to as 1 dimensional it couldn't be anymore true

4-9fg 44%
4-7fg 57%3pt

So of his 9fg attempts 80% of them were 3pt shots. Being that he played about 17min/gm over 5gms and only got off 9shots is indicative of his limitations.

0fta
0ast
0stls
1blk
15reb

He played 17 minutes because guys were dropping like flies.

but the point was novak not being that good.

He is that good at what he does.

If he wasn't he wouldn't have shot 57% from three against the Heat.

The game isn't only about shooting 3s..... sorry you're having a very difficult time grasping this.

Not to mention look at what you said....

You said he played 17min/gm only because guys were dropping like flies which suggest he wouldn't have got that many minutes to begin with. Which means if "HE'S THAT GOOD" surely he's deserving of 17min/gm off the bench if he has the ability to shoot 57%, possibly better correct?

Go ahead and unscramble this if possible

gunsnewing wrote:Lin cut down on his turnovers under Woodson and once Melo and Amare came back the ball was not in Lin's hands 100% of the time. Turnovers will be high for a rookie who has the ball in his hands all the time. And no 2nd ballhandler on the court with him. Certainly not Fields. Shump was the guy but Dantoni had him on the bench for Fields when Lin was committing all those turnovers

Lin isn't a rookie though he actually has had two training camps although the second partial due to lockout.

He really didn't cut the turnovers down, just the fact the team was blowing teams out had all the starters on the bench.

Less court time...less turnovers.

and despite the TO's the Knicks were winning with Lin

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

3G4G wrote:

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnickFan - so you are saying that other than dunking in people's faces and protecting the paint, Tyson Chandler is not that good?

No i was talking about Novak. When did i ever mention Tyson? I love Tyson in fact i feel he is the captain. I also love Novak but i was just saying that his defense needs work. Misterearl i was agreeing with YOU

what it seems he is saying is does being one dimensional equals not that good?

exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

did Lin shoot 57% against Miami?

Novak shot well by the numbers against Miami in the playoffs but when he's referred to as 1 dimensional it couldn't be anymore true

4-9fg 44%
4-7fg 57%3pt

So of his 9fg attempts 80% of them were 3pt shots. Being that he played about 17min/gm over 5gms and only got off 9shots is indicative of his limitations.

0fta
0ast
0stls
1blk
15reb

He played 17 minutes because guys were dropping like flies.

but the point was novak not being that good.

He is that good at what he does.

If he wasn't he wouldn't have shot 57% from three against the Heat.

The game isn't only about shooting 3s..... sorry you're having a very difficult time grasping this.

Not to mention look at what you said....

You said he played 17min/gm only because guys were dropping like flies which suggest he wouldn't have got that many minutes to begin with. Which means if "HE'S THAT GOOD" surely he's deserving of 17min/gm off the bench if he has the ability to shoot 57%, possibly better correct?

Go ahead and unscramble this if possible

He's a role player, what's so hard to figure out?

No the game isn't all about shooting threes, the game isn't all about watching a starting pg turn the ball over left and right either.

No matter how you slice it 575 is official.

But i will fully admit he needs to expand his game.

gunsnewing wrote:and despite the TO's the Knicks were winning with Lin

they won without him too.

MS wrote:The Knicks are old I am not sure how that is up for discussion. There starting five may appear to be young, but Chandler has a lot of wear and tear on his body and Amare is always injured. Knees, eye, back, etc. So when you're relying on Camby who never stayed healthy when he was here, Kidd who put up career lows across the board, Thomas and Wallace there should be serious concerns.

I like Novak a lot, but the guy averaged 5pts 1rb during his career and we gave him 16MM over four seasons. The Knicks have a habit of overpaying marginal talent. He shot lights out during the season, but was an embarrassment during the playoffs. Not up for debate. You can't teach shooting, but we overpayed in years and in salary.

Ronnie Brewer is young and is a great pickup, Shump is young, but he's been injured twice in a half a season. Let's not count on the kid just yet. That was a very bad injury for a player built as physically sound as Iman.

As a fan you have to be extremely worried about Amare, Kidd, Camby, Novak's contracts in 3 years. That's 30MM for guys that could very well be bringining little to no production to the table.

We have talent. We have depth. But, we have more questions than just about every team in the NBA.

The Knicks are old. Agreed. Not the point of contention here.

The argument consists of the fact that the balance of our bench and role players that are NOT old are "not very good".
Brewer is a lock down defender. He's not Lebron. Check.
Novak is the best three point shooter in the land, and did it at MSG in prime time, not Memphis or Golden State or Charlotte. Check.
Shump has more of track record than Lin and Lin's been canonized by the same posters saying our bench is both old and young sheehit.

I don't quite get the logic that bench players are supposed to be good all around players. If they were good all around players, they'd be starting at Toronto. Oh wait a minute, no they wouldn't, because then they'd be Landry Fields.

They are bench players, that are good at what they do, in their respective roles.

jrodmc wrote:

MS wrote:The Knicks are old I am not sure how that is up for discussion. There starting five may appear to be young, but Chandler has a lot of wear and tear on his body and Amare is always injured. Knees, eye, back, etc. So when you're relying on Camby who never stayed healthy when he was here, Kidd who put up career lows across the board, Thomas and Wallace there should be serious concerns.

I like Novak a lot, but the guy averaged 5pts 1rb during his career and we gave him 16MM over four seasons. The Knicks have a habit of overpaying marginal talent. He shot lights out during the season, but was an embarrassment during the playoffs. Not up for debate. You can't teach shooting, but we overpayed in years and in salary.

Ronnie Brewer is young and is a great pickup, Shump is young, but he's been injured twice in a half a season. Let's not count on the kid just yet. That was a very bad injury for a player built as physically sound as Iman.

As a fan you have to be extremely worried about Amare, Kidd, Camby, Novak's contracts in 3 years. That's 30MM for guys that could very well be bringining little to no production to the table.

We have talent. We have depth. But, we have more questions than just about every team in the NBA.

The Knicks are old. Agreed. Not the point of contention here.

The argument consists of the fact that the balance of our bench and role players that are NOT old are "not very good".
Brewer is a lock down defender. He's not Lebron. Check.
Novak is the best three point shooter in the land, and did it at MSG in prime time, not Memphis or Golden State or Charlotte. Check.
Shump has more of track record than Lin and Lin's been canonized by the same posters saying our bench is both old and young sheehit.

I don't quite get the logic that bench players are supposed to be good all around players. If they were good all around players, they'd be starting at Toronto. Oh wait a minute, no they wouldn't, because then they'd be Landry Fields.

They are bench players, that are good at what they do, in their respective roles.

Exactly.

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:and despite the TO's the Knicks were winning with Lin

they won without him too.

How did game 1 versus the Heat go without Lin? Before the knicks started dropping like Flies

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:and despite the TO's the Knicks were winning with Lin

they won without him too.

and They won because Woodson took over for Dantoni and made the most of Melo. Prove me wrong Now?

funny how 98% of the people here were disappointed when it was was announced that Lin would need surgery. Now a lot of those same people try to minimize Lin's positive effect on the Knicks. Wouldn't expect anything less out of New York fans and media

gunsnewing wrote:

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:and despite the TO's the Knicks were winning with Lin

they won without him too.

How did game 1 versus the Heat go without Lin? Before the knicks started dropping like Flies

Pretty much neck and neck before the other 3 players were summoned to play.

gunsnewing wrote:

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:and despite the TO's the Knicks were winning with Lin

they won without him too.

and They won because Woodson took over for Dantoni and made the most of Melo. Prove me wrong Now?

why should i, you're statement already is proof the team can win without Lin, which is exactly what i said.