Knicks · It starts with Camby (page 3)

VCoug wrote:

FeltonandAmare wrote:

Vmart wrote:Here we go the injuries should start to pile up pretty fast for the Knicks. Was there ever a doubt that Camby wouldn't get hurt. That was his career as a Knick injured and it seems like he is going to continue right where he left off.

They always said this about the Celtics. Rookies don't win in this league. Relax.

The Celtics big three plus PJ Brown were all older but that ignores the valuable contributions they got from Rondi, Perkins, Powe, and Big Baby all of who were very young during their title run. Who are the young corresponding young guys on our team?

Ahhhh Ahh Ahhh don't forget

Tony Allen(you know probably the first Shumpert). Don't forget Allen/Pierce/Garnett were 31/32yrs(only like 2-3yrs older than Melo/Chandler/Amar'e not 38/39/40) factoring heavily on team success. With exception to K.G.(as Paul and Ray played college basketball for a couple yrs)..... we also have to keep in mind not yrs of age but mileage. Amar'e and Melo coming into the league at 18/19yrs of age. This makes them older than what they are.

Let's not forget Boston won 66gms that season, so are we saying Knicks are braced for a 60win season too?

IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

tkf wrote:

misterearl wrote:

NUPE wrote:
Amar'e is not old
Melo is not old
Felton is not old
Chandler is not old
Shumpert is not old
JR Smith is not old

Steve Novak is not old
James White is not old
Chris Copeland is not old
John Shurna is not old

novak is not that good
white is not good
copeland is not good
shurna.. who is he?
Brewer: is not that good..

forget old. it doesn't matter how old you are when you are not that good..

Who's getting solid rotation minutes is what I'd be more concerned with

knickscity wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnickFan - so you are saying that other than dunking in people's faces and protecting the paint, Tyson Chandler is not that good?

No i was talking about Novak. When did i ever mention Tyson? I love Tyson in fact i feel he is the captain. I also love Novak but i was just saying that his defense needs work. Misterearl i was agreeing with YOU

what it seems he is saying is does being one dimensional equals not that good?

exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

listen, I like novak, a lot, but the key is, he is only and I do mean only a three point shooter.. heck the spurs cut him and it wasn't like he was missing threes there.. why not ask.. why is someone who is elite at shooting cut from a team that values shooters? well maybe it is because he is only good at that, I mean novak doesn't rebound, he can't defend at all, has to be the worst I have ever seen, and it is hard to dissagree with how bad he is defensively.. he is not that good of a player.. a guy who is "the best sniper in the league"... should be starting if he were competent in any other area of the game.... don't you think? if novak could defend a lick, could rebound the ball somewhat, he would not be riding our bench, he would be fighting for starters minutes.. he isn't doing that, and never has, because.... He isn't that good....

he doesn't move without the ball like a ray allen, so he is a lot easier to defend.. he is a great open shot shooter, but not a good ball player.... plain and simple.. if you can't check your emotions and wrap your brain around that, then I really don't know what to say...

But with that said.. I do like novak.. so you can eliminate the "hater" cry from your argument...

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

How about, he's not a complete player? You not only have to score, but prevent your opponent from scoring to win games.

Same old.......we miss alan houstan's shooting but we blasted his lack of "complete game". We blast Joe Johnson but the man can shoot.

These are Max players and we exepect alot.

Novak is a role player. His role is to shoot. His role is to create space for other players.

Great point people get caught up in stats. Why can't he rebound more, why can't he average more assists. Why doesn't Ewing pass more. Always overlook a players effectiveness until they are gone. With that said Novak is truly a one-dimensional situational player but a good piece to have on your team on the cheap

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

Once again i am agreeing with YOU. I mean what dont you get about that.

IrishKnickFan wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

Once again i am agreeing with YOU. I mean what dont you get about that.

IrishKnicksFan - please note the comments were directed at tkf, not you.

Panos wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

How about, he's not a complete player? You not only have to score, but prevent your opponent from scoring to win games.

Thank You Panos finally someone is thinking lol. I love Novak he is the best 3 point shooter in the game. But he is not a complete player on both sides of the courts. Now this doesnt mean he is "not that good" it just means that he has stregnths and weaknesses just like every nba player

misterearl wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

Once again i am agreeing with YOU. I mean what dont you get about that.

IrishKnicksFan - please note the comments were directed at tkf, not you.

ok i thought you were since you were quoting me but my mistake

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Panos wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

How about, he's not a complete player? You not only have to score, but prevent your opponent from scoring to win games.

Thank You Panos finally someone is thinking lol. I love Novak he is the best 3 point shooter in the game. But he is not a complete player on both sides of the courts. Now this doesnt mean he is "not that good" it just means that he has stregnths and weaknesses just like every nba player

IRISHKnicksfan, you seem like a pretty fair guy... let me ask you this..

is novak even an adequate defender? be honest here.. I don't think he is even adequate.

is novak even a decent passer? again be honest

is novak a decent rebounder?

Does novak move well without the ball?

I think an honest assesment will tell you that he is not really decent in any of these areas.. what he is tho, is a deadly three point shooter.... he does nothing else.. that dosen't make him a scrub, or bad, just "not that good" as a player... you can't be very good doing one thing and really bad in other areas, and be a "good" player... because if you are "not that good" then what are you?

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Panos wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

How about, he's not a complete player? You not only have to score, but prevent your opponent from scoring to win games.

Thank You Panos finally someone is thinking lol. I love Novak he is the best 3 point shooter in the game. But he is not a complete player on both sides of the courts. Now this doesnt mean he is "not that good" it just means that he has stregnths and weaknesses just like every nba player

IRISHKnicksfan, you seem like a pretty fair guy... let me ask you this..

is novak even an adequate defender? be honest here.. I don't think he is even adequate.

is novak even a decent passer? again be honest

is novak a decent rebounder?

Does novak move well without the ball?

I think an honest assesment will tell you that he is not really decent in any of these areas.. what he is tho, is a deadly three point shooter.... he does nothing else.. that dosen't make him a scrub, or bad, just "not that good" as a player... you can't be very good doing one thing and really bad in other areas, and be a "good" player... because if you are "not that good" then what are you?

Novak is a role player. His sole job / role is to provide spacing and hit open threes. Novak is great / perfect for his role. No one ever said Novak is a good all around player. He is not. Rather, people are saying Novak is great at his role. You are presenting a straw-man argument.

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Panos wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

How about, he's not a complete player? You not only have to score, but prevent your opponent from scoring to win games.

Thank You Panos finally someone is thinking lol. I love Novak he is the best 3 point shooter in the game. But he is not a complete player on both sides of the courts. Now this doesnt mean he is "not that good" it just means that he has stregnths and weaknesses just like every nba player

IRISHKnicksfan, you seem like a pretty fair guy... let me ask you this..

is novak even an adequate defender? be honest here.. I don't think he is even adequate.

is novak even a decent passer? again be honest

is novak a decent rebounder?

Does novak move well without the ball?

I think an honest assesment will tell you that he is not really decent in any of these areas.. what he is tho, is a deadly three point shooter.... he does nothing else.. that dosen't make him a scrub, or bad, just "not that good" as a player... you can't be very good doing one thing and really bad in other areas, and be a "good" player... because if you are "not that good" then what are you?

I try to be as fair as I can. First of all Im a big Novak fan but i am not afraid to talk about his weaknesses. We all know he has the best 3 point touch in the game. But he cant really defend, rebound, or many times create his own shot

IrishKnickFan wrote:

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Panos wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

How about, he's not a complete player? You not only have to score, but prevent your opponent from scoring to win games.

Thank You Panos finally someone is thinking lol. I love Novak he is the best 3 point shooter in the game. But he is not a complete player on both sides of the courts. Now this doesnt mean he is "not that good" it just means that he has stregnths and weaknesses just like every nba player

IRISHKnicksfan, you seem like a pretty fair guy... let me ask you this..

is novak even an adequate defender? be honest here.. I don't think he is even adequate.

is novak even a decent passer? again be honest

is novak a decent rebounder?

Does novak move well without the ball?

I think an honest assesment will tell you that he is not really decent in any of these areas.. what he is tho, is a deadly three point shooter.... he does nothing else.. that dosen't make him a scrub, or bad, just "not that good" as a player... you can't be very good doing one thing and really bad in other areas, and be a "good" player... because if you are "not that good" then what are you?

I try to be as fair as I can. First of all Im a big Novak fan but i am not afraid to talk about his weaknesses. We all know he has the best 3 point touch in the game. But he cant really defend, rebound, or many times create his own shot

so it is fair to say, as a player, he is not that good.. He is a great shooter, but that is it, no one is arguing that.. my point is, every current knick player criticism is met with harsh opposition, even when they know whats being said is true...

so it is true the knicks are pretty much an old team... to point out that novak isn't old, that copeland isn't old, and that white isn't old..is really not being fair to the discussion as these guys are bit players... everyone knows we are talking about the main rotation minute players....

it is ok to have doubts, it is ok to say this isn't good... or that isn't good... until this team proves otherwise, a lot of the criticism is fair and just not some arbitrary hatred towards NY players.... I like novak... but I can see him for what he is.... and that is not a bad thing...

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Panos wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

How about, he's not a complete player? You not only have to score, but prevent your opponent from scoring to win games.

Thank You Panos finally someone is thinking lol. I love Novak he is the best 3 point shooter in the game. But he is not a complete player on both sides of the courts. Now this doesnt mean he is "not that good" it just means that he has stregnths and weaknesses just like every nba player

IRISHKnicksfan, you seem like a pretty fair guy... let me ask you this..

is novak even an adequate defender? be honest here.. I don't think he is even adequate.

is novak even a decent passer? again be honest

is novak a decent rebounder?

Does novak move well without the ball?

I think an honest assesment will tell you that he is not really decent in any of these areas.. what he is tho, is a deadly three point shooter.... he does nothing else.. that dosen't make him a scrub, or bad, just "not that good" as a player... you can't be very good doing one thing and really bad in other areas, and be a "good" player... because if you are "not that good" then what are you?

Novak is a role player. His sole job / role is to provide spacing and hit open threes. Novak is great / perfect for his role. No one ever said Novak is a good all around player. He is not. Rather, people are saying Novak is great at his role. You are presenting a straw-man argument.

no people are refuting that I said " he is not that good"... you seem to agree.....

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

tkf wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

Panos wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnick - When tkf drops Steve Novak is "not that good" it is not only less factorial than most comments, it is downright arrogant in its dismissive flair.

Novak drains three's better than most players shoot from the field. 47 percent. He is the best sniper in the league. tkf labels that as "not that good"?

"not that good" as what?

C'mon Son!

How about, he's not a complete player? You not only have to score, but prevent your opponent from scoring to win games.

Thank You Panos finally someone is thinking lol. I love Novak he is the best 3 point shooter in the game. But he is not a complete player on both sides of the courts. Now this doesnt mean he is "not that good" it just means that he has stregnths and weaknesses just like every nba player

IRISHKnicksfan, you seem like a pretty fair guy... let me ask you this..

is novak even an adequate defender? be honest here.. I don't think he is even adequate.

is novak even a decent passer? again be honest

is novak a decent rebounder?

Does novak move well without the ball?

I think an honest assesment will tell you that he is not really decent in any of these areas.. what he is tho, is a deadly three point shooter.... he does nothing else.. that dosen't make him a scrub, or bad, just "not that good" as a player... you can't be very good doing one thing and really bad in other areas, and be a "good" player... because if you are "not that good" then what are you?

I try to be as fair as I can. First of all Im a big Novak fan but i am not afraid to talk about his weaknesses. We all know he has the best 3 point touch in the game. But he cant really defend, rebound, or many times create his own shot

so it is fair to say, as a player, he is not that good.. He is a great shooter, but that is it, no one is arguing that.. my point is, every current knick player criticism is met with harsh opposition, even when they know whats being said is true...

so it is true the knicks are pretty much an old team... to point out that novak isn't old, that copeland isn't old, and that white isn't old..is really not being fair to the discussion as these guys are bit players... everyone knows we are talking about the main rotation minute players....

it is ok to have doubts, it is ok to say this isn't good... or that isn't good... until this team proves otherwise, a lot of the criticism is fair and just not some arbitrary hatred towards NY players.... I like novak... but I can see him for what he is.... and that is not a bad thing...

I never said he was a great player i said he was a great shooter.

The Knicks are old I am not sure how that is up for discussion. There starting five may appear to be young, but Chandler has a lot of wear and tear on his body and Amare is always injured. Knees, eye, back, etc. So when you're relying on Camby who never stayed healthy when he was here, Kidd who put up career lows across the board, Thomas and Wallace there should be serious concerns.

I like Novak a lot, but the guy averaged 5pts 1rb during his career and we gave him 16MM over four seasons. The Knicks have a habit of overpaying marginal talent. He shot lights out during the season, but was an embarrassment during the playoffs. Not up for debate. You can't teach shooting, but we overpayed in years and in salary.

Ronnie Brewer is young and is a great pickup, Shump is young, but he's been injured twice in a half a season. Let's not count on the kid just yet. That was a very bad injury for a player built as physically sound as Iman.

As a fan you have to be extremely worried about Amare, Kidd, Camby, Novak's contracts in 3 years. That's 30MM for guys that could very well be bringining little to no production to the table.

We have talent. We have depth. But, we have more questions than just about every team in the NBA.

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnickFan - so you are saying that other than dunking in people's faces and protecting the paint, Tyson Chandler is not that good?

No i was talking about Novak. When did i ever mention Tyson? I love Tyson in fact i feel he is the captain. I also love Novak but i was just saying that his defense needs work. Misterearl i was agreeing with YOU

what it seems he is saying is does being one dimensional equals not that good?

exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

did Lin shoot 57% against Miami?

knickscity wrote:

tkf wrote:

knickscity wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

misterearl wrote:IrishKnickFan - so you are saying that other than dunking in people's faces and protecting the paint, Tyson Chandler is not that good?

No i was talking about Novak. When did i ever mention Tyson? I love Tyson in fact i feel he is the captain. I also love Novak but i was just saying that his defense needs work. Misterearl i was agreeing with YOU

what it seems he is saying is does being one dimensional equals not that good?

exactly... he is good at shooting threes... that's it.. he is not even good at getting open, I guess I should use the miami series to highlight how he could not get many shots off.. I mean that is fair, we used one miami game to define lin's entire career.. right?

did Lin shoot 57% against Miami?

Novak shot well by the numbers against Miami in the playoffs but when he's referred to as 1 dimensional it couldn't be anymore true

4-9fg 44%
4-7fg 57%3pt

So of his 9fg attempts 80% of them were 3pt shots. Being that he played about 17min/gm over 5gms and only got off 9shots is indicative of his limitations.

0fta
0ast
0stls
1blk
15reb