Knicks · It's like MDA is still coaching.. offensively (page 1)
8 ast for felton in 21 minutes..woodson has been doing his home work
knicks1248 wrote:33 of our 72 shots were 3's..we essentially ran MDA's game plan, same pick role..8 ast for felton in 21 minutes..woodson has been doing his home work
Say what you wnat about MDA but the guy has a great offensive mind. Its too bad he didnt preach defense otherwise he would have won championships. I think using MDA offense along with Woody's defensiive scheme will make us extremely dangerous
You didn't see a lot of standing around and going ISO. If they keep the ball moving and the off ball motion then they'll really have a solid offense. I think the Knicks will be good offensively they definitely have a plan and it's not disjointed or weak. Once we get everyone healthy this looks like it'll be a very solid team on both ends.
knicks1248 wrote:33 of our 72 shots were 3's..we essentially ran MDA's game plan, same pick role..8 ast for felton in 21 minutes..woodson has been doing his home work
Don't read too much into it, from what I've read, I think Woody has mainly focused on conditioning and defensive sets in training camp, so he's relying a bit more on D'antoni's offense than he probably will later on once he's had time to put in his own stuff.
smackeddog wrote:knicks1248 wrote:33 of our 72 shots were 3's..we essentially ran MDA's game plan, same pick role..8 ast for felton in 21 minutes..woodson has been doing his home work
Don't read too much into it, from what I've read, I think Woody has mainly focused on conditioning and defensive sets in training camp, so he's relying a bit more on D'antoni's offense than he probably will later on once he's had time to put in his own stuff.
The plays he ran were the ones he WANTS the team to learn and that he will be using. He mixed it up with his own plays that featured post ups, tho they didn't really get a lot out of it with only Tyson in the game, but he also ran curls off those same sets and that is basically his half court stuff. The other stuff which featured a spread floor and PnR, which often led to some open 3's was more of MDA's stuff, but it's fully a part of Woody's offense now. Expect to see this same kind of mix, but more post ups when we have STAT and maybe Sheed in the game. With the players we have in the rotation he's gonna have to keep much of the stuff that fits their skills and that's why he kept in the stuff that MDA ran with Felton & STAT, that also helps guys like Novak, Tyson and Smith.
Woody is no fool. He saw how easy it was to shut down a purely ISO Post Melo type of offense in the playoffs. He knows that he has to keep the defense off balance with good player and ball movement. But he also knows that only being able to run PnR and jack 3's won't work either. He's got to have a good mix of different types of attack.
smackeddog wrote:knicks1248 wrote:33 of our 72 shots were 3's..we essentially ran MDA's game plan, same pick role..8 ast for felton in 21 minutes..woodson has been doing his home work
Don't read too much into it, from what I've read, I think Woody has mainly focused on conditioning and defensive sets in training camp, so he's relying a bit more on D'antoni's offense than he probably will later on once he's had time to put in his own stuff.
Also, We were short a few big men. I hope that we wont keep hearing this refrain this season every time the Knicks get hot from beyond the arc or move the ball around as if it never happened before D'Antoni became a coach. One big difference we should see is when the threes arent falling, Woodson will go inside instead of living, or too often dying, by the three.
I like what Woody is doing as coach. He's got a good sense of what he wants to do with this team. You could see it when the starters were in. He was using a lot of the kind of half court plays they used in Detroit when he was there. Good stuff. Going inside then out. Mixing it up like this will make the Knicks a much tougher team to defend. You can see it already. They switched from PnR, to post up, to curl plays fluidly. It really looked good, despite the horrid defense they faced. If they can refine the offense it should be good. The thing is that with a top level defense they won't have to be the greatest offense ever. They can win with a modest but efficient offense.
nixluva wrote:Not to get into this all again, but let's not forget that MDA has been to the WCF's 2x with his teams as well as being over 50 wins every year. It's not like he "can't coach" a TEAM. Clearly he was very effective to have gotten that far against what was at the time the best Conference in the league. Here in NY with the roster changes was not a fair representation of his coaching ability. I can guarantee you that if they had given him a PG of decent quality for consecutive seasons, things would've been a lot different. Instead things changed every year.I like what Woody is doing as coach. He's got a good sense of what he wants to do with this team. You could see it when the starters were in. He was using a lot of the kind of half court plays they used in Detroit when he was there. Good stuff. Going inside then out. Mixing it up like this will make the Knicks a much tougher team to defend. You can see it already. They switched from PnR, to post up, to curl plays fluidly. It really looked good, despite the horrid defense they faced. If they can refine the offense it should be good. The thing is that with a top level defense they won't have to be the greatest offense ever. They can win with a modest but efficient offense.
Lets just say that MDA is not a good coach unless he has a very solid PG. I think that is fair. The question was if he could adapt to other styles if lacking the right personnel for his system.
TD did not help MDA but it also did not help that TD was given the green light, shot 25 pct from 3, and led the knicks in 3's attempted by a mile.
2-18 from 3 
mrKnickShot wrote:MDA might still be coaching.2-18 from 3
Well said.
mrKnickShot wrote:nixluva wrote:Not to get into this all again, but let's not forget that MDA has been to the WCF's 2x with his teams as well as being over 50 wins every year. It's not like he "can't coach" a TEAM. Clearly he was very effective to have gotten that far against what was at the time the best Conference in the league. Here in NY with the roster changes was not a fair representation of his coaching ability. I can guarantee you that if they had given him a PG of decent quality for consecutive seasons, things would've been a lot different. Instead things changed every year.I like what Woody is doing as coach. He's got a good sense of what he wants to do with this team. You could see it when the starters were in. He was using a lot of the kind of half court plays they used in Detroit when he was there. Good stuff. Going inside then out. Mixing it up like this will make the Knicks a much tougher team to defend. You can see it already. They switched from PnR, to post up, to curl plays fluidly. It really looked good, despite the horrid defense they faced. If they can refine the offense it should be good. The thing is that with a top level defense they won't have to be the greatest offense ever. They can win with a modest but efficient offense.
Lets just say that MDA is not a good coach unless he has a very solid PG. I think that is fair. The question was if he could adapt to other styles if lacking the right personnel for his system.
TD did not help MDA but it also did not help that TD was given the green light, shot 25 pct from 3, and led the knicks in 3's attempted by a mile.
Since when is having a Substandard PG not a detriment to a team? When MDA had at least a decent PG things looked a lot better, but that wasn't the only point I was making. I think you guys have continually oversimplified the case with MDA. My other key issue is that in addition to having at least a decent PG you need to have some continuity at the position as well.
Duhon was substandard and only got picked cuz he'd accept the 2 year contract. Felton only got a half a season. Billups less than that. Then we had to suffer with TD and broke down Bibby and Davis. No continuity or quality at the most imporant position. Even now you can't compare what Woody has now to what MDA had over his years. Woody actually has 3 real PG's!!!! IF you can't see what a difference that makes then you just have an unfair Bias against MDA as a coach.
Clearly it's just as important for Woody to have good PG's in order to help improve the teams chances for success. The smartest thing was bringing back Felton who at least has familiarity with MDA and Larry Brown's plays which are the crux of Woody's offense. That in a sense helps a little with continuity even tho Felton wasn't here last year. He does have a firm handle on the offense and looks very comfortable running PnR.
As for the poor shooting, I wouldn't worry too much. This team will have more scoring options once everyone is healthy and they won't have to rely on so many 3's. This team will have more scoring at the basket than we've seen in the preseason so far once we have STAT, Brewer, Shump and JR healthy and in the mix. Guys that have the ability to get to the rim.
nixluva wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:nixluva wrote:Not to get into this all again, but let's not forget that MDA has been to the WCF's 2x with his teams as well as being over 50 wins every year. It's not like he "can't coach" a TEAM. Clearly he was very effective to have gotten that far against what was at the time the best Conference in the league. Here in NY with the roster changes was not a fair representation of his coaching ability. I can guarantee you that if they had given him a PG of decent quality for consecutive seasons, things would've been a lot different. Instead things changed every year.I like what Woody is doing as coach. He's got a good sense of what he wants to do with this team. You could see it when the starters were in. He was using a lot of the kind of half court plays they used in Detroit when he was there. Good stuff. Going inside then out. Mixing it up like this will make the Knicks a much tougher team to defend. You can see it already. They switched from PnR, to post up, to curl plays fluidly. It really looked good, despite the horrid defense they faced. If they can refine the offense it should be good. The thing is that with a top level defense they won't have to be the greatest offense ever. They can win with a modest but efficient offense.
Lets just say that MDA is not a good coach unless he has a very solid PG. I think that is fair. The question was if he could adapt to other styles if lacking the right personnel for his system.
TD did not help MDA but it also did not help that TD was given the green light, shot 25 pct from 3, and led the knicks in 3's attempted by a mile.
Since when is having a Substandard PG not a detriment to a team? When MDA had at least a decent PG things looked a lot better, but that wasn't the only point I was making. I think you guys have continually oversimplified the case with MDA. My other key issue is that in addition to having at least a decent PG you need to have some continuity at the position as well.
Duhon was substandard and only got picked cuz he'd accept the 2 year contract. Felton only got a half a season. Billups less than that. Then we had to suffer with TD and broke down Bibby and Davis. No continuity or quality at the most imporant position. Even now you can't compare what Woody has now to what MDA had over his years. Woody actually has 3 real PG's!!!! IF you can't see what a difference that makes then you just have an unfair Bias against MDA as a coach.
Clearly it's just as important for Woody to have good PG's in order to help improve the teams chances for success. The smartest thing was bringing back Felton who at least has familiarity with MDA and Larry Brown's plays which are the crux of Woody's offense. That in a sense helps a little with continuity even tho Felton wasn't here last year. He does have a firm handle on the offense and looks very comfortable running PnR.
As for the poor shooting, I wouldn't worry too much. This team will have more scoring options once everyone is healthy and they won't have to rely on so many 3's. This team will have more scoring at the basket than we've seen in the preseason so far once we have STAT, Brewer, Shump and JR healthy and in the mix. Guys that have the ability to get to the rim.
I don't like MDA as a head coach for a number of reasons but to be fair, he did not have a good situation here and that was not all his fault. Could he have done better with what he had? I think that he could have but that is in the past - I don't really care about that at this point. I am not sold on Woody but I am keeping my fingers crossed.
@NUPE..youre right. Maybe their not showing all their cards yet
callmened wrote:I remain confused as to what this team’s offensive “identity” might be. It looked like they were developing a motion half-court offense featuring back screens to free up mid-range shots (think Larry Brown’s mid-2000′s Pistons teams) in the first game. Then vs boston, they went very ISO-Melo heavy in the first half and straight MDA (spread the floor and run high pick and roll) throughout the 4th quarter and overtime.@NUPE..youre right. Maybe their not showing all their cards yet
I think it's just a mirage how they look now. Once we get everyone back this team is gonna be able to run more of the post sets with off the ball motion. I really like the idea of mixing the styles the way they have. It's been a bit harder to run anything other than PnR without STAT, JR, Shump and Brewer in the mix. Not to mention Camby or Sheed. If you have all of those players you can get the ball inside more and attack the rim more with dribble penetration and cuts.
Depending upon who's on the floor you could see a bit more PnR - spread offense or more post - off ball motion.
callmened wrote:I remain confused as to what this team’s offensive “identity” might be. It looked like they were developing a motion half-court offense featuring back screens to free up mid-range shots (think Larry Brown’s mid-2000′s Pistons teams) in the first game. Then vs boston, they went very ISO-Melo heavy in the first half and straight MDA (spread the floor and run high pick and roll) throughout the 4th quarter and overtime.@NUPE.. youre right. Maybe their not showing all their cards yet
Well he did say he was going to use some of MDA's play, so you will see a combination of both..I think when we get stagnet, thats when they dump the ball and let melo do his thing..
last night KT was missing so many wide open mid range jumpers melo decided to do what he does best, score.
I expect Amare to have a monster yr, he is going to benefit from the pick and roll, and the mid range game..We have some really solid PG play makers, some nice slashers, and novak, melo and smith from 3..We should be a top team with out any fraction of a doubt..
knicks1248 wrote:callmened wrote:I remain confused as to what this team’s offensive “identity” might be. It looked like they were developing a motion half-court offense featuring back screens to free up mid-range shots (think Larry Brown’s mid-2000′s Pistons teams) in the first game. Then vs boston, they went very ISO-Melo heavy in the first half and straight MDA (spread the floor and run high pick and roll) throughout the 4th quarter and overtime.@NUPE.. youre right. Maybe their not showing all their cards yet
Well he did say he was going to use some of MDA's play, so you will see a combination of both..I think when we get stagnet, thats when they dump the ball and let melo do his thing..
last night KT was missing so many wide open mid range jumpers melo decided to do what he does best, score.
I expect Amare to have a monster yr, he is going to benefit from the pick and roll, and the mid range game..We have some really solid PG play makers, some nice slashers, and novak, melo and smith from 3..We should be a top team with out any fraction of a doubt..
I expect to the Knicks to be a top 4 seed in the East. As for top team, dunno. It is possible but they will need to gel and Amar'e will need to get to around 22 ppg and 9+ boards on good fg% along with Melo putting up his career numbers. In the NBA wins are dictated by your top two or three players scoring / creating and defense. The top player will get easier shots for the other players and defense is a matter of coaching and effort.