Knicks · OT: HARDEN TRADED TO HOUSTON!! (page 12)
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:Dont forget that kmart is an expiring contract. So they can trade jim later in the season to upgradeWhy would they trade him? This is their Ray Allen ----when has Kevin had players ie OKC to pay around? Why cant he avg 20-3-2 and 45% as sixth man? Then we have seen Lamb in pre-season and he can play and upgrade the bench as well
Kevin Martin has been very open that he wants out of Houston. This is even before Lin and Asik were brought in. Kevin Martin was disrupting team chemistry. Really, the only part of the trade I did not like was the inclusion of the Toronto pick which could be very high.
NYKBocker wrote:BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:Dont forget that kmart is an expiring contract. So they can trade jim later in the season to upgradeWhy would they trade him? This is their Ray Allen ----when has Kevin had players ie OKC to pay around? Why cant he avg 20-3-2 and 45% as sixth man? Then we have seen Lamb in pre-season and he can play and upgrade the bench as well
Kevin Martin has been very open that he wants out of Houston. This is even before Lin and Asik were brought in. Kevin Martin was disrupting team chemistry. Really, the only part of the trade I did not like was the inclusion of the Toronto pick which could be very high.
Yeah Lin commented on knowing the trade was in the works for a while and he wasn't surprised a deal was struck. I wouldn't say Martin was disrupting team chemistry but he wanted to be used in a similar fashion Adeleman used him.
BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:Dont forget that kmart is an expiring contract. So they can trade jim later in the season to upgradeWhy would they trade him? This is their Ray Allen ----when has Kevin had players ie OKC to pay around? Why cant he avg 20-3-2 and 45% as sixth man? Then we have seen Lamb in pre-season and he can play and upgrade the bench as well
I don't disagree with you much, if ever. But Harden is going to get his opportunity to break out and lead his own team.
I said this during last year's playoffs, while Westbrook and Durant got all the credit leading up to the finals, Harden was off those interviews post game on TNT.
He isn't physically as talented as Westbrook or Durant but he is just as skilled and important to the team.
There is probably some jealousy involved and Harden want's to the opporutnity to build his own brand, not behind Durant, especially Westbrook, whom he probably thinks is more efficient than, at least offensively. Westbrook didn't answer the question correctly when the reporter asked if he thought if Harden is a max player.
He should have responded, Harden is very important to our team and makes things much easier for me, and the team.
In fact, he is much closer to a PG than Westbrook will probably ever be.
While OKC did receive a decent package, those players simply are not anywhere close to Harden's production, efficiency, and importance to the team.
Again, Harden had a bad series vs Lebron and give credit to The Heat's DEF and their lock down defenders.
He loss confidence in his shot, possibly injury as well, and it showed when he missed wide open shots he normally makes with defenders on him.
I would have liked to see Ibaka get a chance on Lebron, especially when he was posting up/dominated on Harden and Durant as he was getting deep position too easily.
OKC is probably the only team in the entire history of the NBA team that drafted too great for themsvelves, while collecting/developing talent that they could not keep as a small market team. Resigning Perkins is what really cost this team significant cap room/flexibility, his production as a undersized Center could be replaced by cheaper options, although at the time seemed like a bargain. Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka all deserve max/near max deals with their age, steady improvements, and skill sets.
I think if Ibaka add's to his skills with wide open 3pointers *which he has shown* and a few offensive weapons he would be under paid to stay on young/top franchise in the league.
Harden is worthy of a max extension and if he signs for anything less, would become a great trade bait for OKC's future.
Many teams were going to target him with the MAX $$$ so either pay him or watch talent leave.
Like Nash has said, with his comments regarding his summer decision, prior to the trade with the Lakers.
Whether he will be following the road of the next Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, or SHAQ, will depend on his production, more imporantly, how Houston continues to improve in the upcoming years.
Houston can still sign 1-2 signifigant players (depending on how they use their cap space) to go with the role players they already have, still with draft picks, cap room, and flexibility to make reasonable trades.
Josh Smith would probably be their #1 option this summer and they have the ability to pay him a very reasonable salary.
Going over the cap for 1 year is not going to kill them, it is repetitive/consective years going way over the cap that the penalities mulitiplies.
NYKBocker wrote:If I was Morey, I would go after Wilson Chandler and trade Cook, Jajuan Johnson and Greg Smith. Would be good for both teams.
I love Wilson Chandler and he was the player I wanted to keep most, especially because of "value" was not "high"
I don't see why Denver would do this but to save money for Lawson, Iggy, and Brewer *all can become FAs*, they would need a draft pick back to get value.
Then again, we all remember what Orlando traded Ryan Anderson for.
With that said, they lose talent, and some great depth/versatility, but management has shown to be very stingy with contracts, players, and salaries.
RonRon wrote:NYKBocker wrote:If I was Morey, I would go after Wilson Chandler and trade Cook, Jajuan Johnson and Greg Smith. Would be good for both teams.I love Wilson Chandler and he was the player I wanted to keep most, especially because of "value" was not "high"
I don't see why Denver would do this but to save money for Lawson, Iggy, and Brewer *all can become FAs*, they would need a draft pick back to get value.
Then again, we all remember what Orlando traded Ryan Anderson for.
With that said, they lose talent, and some great depth/versatility, but management has shown to be very stingy with contracts, players, and salaries.
Cook would be the expiring and Johnson and Smith would be the talent for depth. Greg Smith really looks good. Reminds me of Otis Thorpe.
NYKBocker wrote:BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:Dont forget that kmart is an expiring contract. So they can trade jim later in the season to upgradeWhy would they trade him? This is their Ray Allen ----when has Kevin had players ie OKC to pay around? Why cant he avg 20-3-2 and 45% as sixth man? Then we have seen Lamb in pre-season and he can play and upgrade the bench as well
Kevin Martin has been very open that he wants out of Houston. This is even before Lin and Asik were brought in. Kevin Martin was disrupting team chemistry. Really, the only part of the trade I did not like was the inclusion of the Toronto pick which could be very high.
Was Martin having issues with McHale like Lowry?
CrushAlot wrote:NYKBocker wrote:BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:Dont forget that kmart is an expiring contract. So they can trade jim later in the season to upgradeWhy would they trade him? This is their Ray Allen ----when has Kevin had players ie OKC to pay around? Why cant he avg 20-3-2 and 45% as sixth man? Then we have seen Lamb in pre-season and he can play and upgrade the bench as well
Kevin Martin has been very open that he wants out of Houston. This is even before Lin and Asik were brought in. Kevin Martin was disrupting team chemistry. Really, the only part of the trade I did not like was the inclusion of the Toronto pick which could be very high.
Was Martin having issues with McHale like Lowry?
Yes. I think McHale is a horrible coach in regards with player relations. Most superstars really can't be head coaches. Too much ego.
tkf wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:raven wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:No those who considered Billups the Nuggets best player that season wouldn't have been mentally challenged SHEESH I tell you....Mr. Big Shot stats that season rounding up/down a couple tenths
Regular
18pts/6.5ast/42%/41%(3pt)/91%fta/1.2stl/3reb
Playoffs
21pts/7ast/46%/47%(3pt)/91%fta/1.2stl/4reb
It's no wonder they got to the WCF that year, which was statistically one of Melo's worst seasons(Regular) in his career, in terms of overall output. I already looked up Melo's stats that year and he had a pretty good playoff run but It's clear between the two players why the Nuggets excelled.Typical!
Why don't you go ahead and post his playoff numbers.
And while your at it, why don't you post their playoff numbers the following year when they lost in the FIRST ROUND.
I was trying to spare you here...I must say in Billups case his FGA output stayed the same that year and playoffs at 12.5/gm. Simply put Billups shot considerably better in the playoffs. It was also their first season playing together 2008-2009
MeloRegular
23pts/3.5ast/44%/37%(3pt)/79%fta/1stl/7reb
Playoffs27pts/4ast/45%/36%(3pt)/83%fta/2stl/6reb
But But But But Melo went from 23pts to 27pts did you see that bro....sure he did he also increased his FGA by 2/gm. Melo pretty much remained the same guy he had been.... pretty decent numbers but he didn't elevate his game to another level per say that Post-Season.
Now you said post their numbers from the previous season First Round exit.....Well I would but I'd only post Melo's because Billups wasn't there, which might explain why they got bounced in the first round.
Reread.
The following year.
And, Billups increases his efficiency by being a top notch FT shooter and a good 3 pt shooter. His fg% is always awful but as I said, he does make up for it.
Please don't be silly and say he is/was the best player on the court. He is a solid player but thats it.
Solid?
Billups is an NBA champion and a NBA final MVP.
His nickname is Mr Big Shot and he made countless of them.
A 5 times all star, 2 times all nba 2nd team, he has proven to be an awesome pg, a coach on the court, respected by coaches and players alike.Even at that age, the ''solid'' label is at least misguided and at worst downright insulting.
Solid meaning that he is not a star.
I just argued this with Hotfresh in another thread. I was for Billups, he was for Felton. I don't think its close. Billups's only issues in my mind was poor shot selection at times especially from 2 pt range where his % is low. And, he does not create enough for his teammates - low assists numbers ...
He is was an excellent defender, and a good guy. He also fit pretty well into the grinding/slow offense in detroit.
come on mrknickshot.. melo is not a star either... there was no doubt that melo was as instrumental to that team as carmelo was... as 3g pointed out, when billups was there and had that nice playoff run, the nuggets went to the wcf... it was done as a team, but lets stop this "melo lead them".. nah, not in this case.... we see what happens to "melo led" teams... billups has a track record... that we know for sure...
We also saw what happened to a KG led team in Minny and a PP led team before KG and squad, and a Wade led team (after shaq and before lebron), A Kobe led team without Shaq or Gasol .................................... Enough with this BS.
When you score 31 points and grab 8.5 rebounds and lose in the first round. Dang!
He is a star. Just look, nobody can talking about this polarizing POS!
NOW WE ARE GIGGLING OVER CHAUNCY? That's this year. When the trade was going down, CB was a bum and Felton was a star. Now, Felton is a FAT bum and CB is a star!!!!
HIL-PHUCKIN-LARIOUS
RonRon wrote:BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:Dont forget that kmart is an expiring contract. So they can trade jim later in the season to upgradeWhy would they trade him? This is their Ray Allen ----when has Kevin had players ie OKC to pay around? Why cant he avg 20-3-2 and 45% as sixth man? Then we have seen Lamb in pre-season and he can play and upgrade the bench as well
I don't disagree with you much, if ever. But Harden is going to get his opportunity to break out and lead his own team.
I said this during last year's playoffs, while Westbrook and Durant got all the credit leading up to the finals, Harden was off those interviews post game on TNT.
He isn't physically as talented as Westbrook or Durant but he is just as skilled and important to the team.
There is probably some jealousy involved and Harden want's to the opporutnity to build his own brand, not behind Durant, especially Westbrook, whom he probably thinks is more efficient than, at least offensively. Westbrook didn't answer the question correctly when the reporter asked if he thought if Harden is a max player.
He should have responded, Harden is very important to our team and makes things much easier for me, and the team.
In fact, he is much closer to a PG than Westbrook will probably ever be.
While OKC did receive a decent package, those players simply are not anywhere close to Harden's production, efficiency, and importance to the team.Again, Harden had a bad series vs Lebron and give credit to The Heat's DEF and their lock down defenders.
He loss confidence in his shot, possibly injury as well, and it showed when he missed wide open shots he normally makes with defenders on him.
I would have liked to see Ibaka get a chance on Lebron, especially when he was posting up/dominated on Harden and Durant as he was getting deep position too easily.OKC is probably the only team in the entire history of the NBA team that drafted too great for themsvelves, while collecting/developing talent that they could not keep as a small market team. Resigning Perkins is what really cost this team significant cap room/flexibility, his production as a undersized Center could be replaced by cheaper options, although at the time seemed like a bargain. Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka all deserve max/near max deals with their age, steady improvements, and skill sets.
I think if Ibaka add's to his skills with wide open 3pointers *which he has shown* and a few offensive weapons he would be under paid to stay on young/top franchise in the league.Harden is worthy of a max extension and if he signs for anything less, would become a great trade bait for OKC's future.
Many teams were going to target him with the MAX $$$ so either pay him or watch talent leave.
Like Nash has said, with his comments regarding his summer decision, prior to the trade with the Lakers.
Whether he will be following the road of the next Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, or SHAQ, will depend on his production, more imporantly, how Houston continues to improve in the upcoming years.Houston can still sign 1-2 signifigant players (depending on how they use their cap space) to go with the role players they already have, still with draft picks, cap room, and flexibility to make reasonable trades.
Josh Smith would probably be their #1 option this summer and they have the ability to pay him a very reasonable salary.Going over the cap for 1 year is not going to kill them, it is repetitive/consective years going way over the cap that the penalities mulitiplies.
This is so important, not only Houston still own their pick this year, but still have enough salary cap available to sign a major player (posibly max contract) next year, and that team is on the way up.
Considering that a MAX CONTRACT for Harden ($60 million) is not the same as a max contract sign by veterans ($80 /100 million) yet, Harden has the potential to procuce just as much, I belive the trade was a good for both teams.
Bonn1997 wrote:I have a feeling that by the time we get to the thirteenth page, people's comments will start to become repetitive.
Hows pittsburg? Sandy Strikin?
mrKnickShot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I have a feeling that by the time we get to the thirteenth page, people's comments will start to become repetitive.Hows pittsburg? Sandy Strikin?
You remembered where I live! We're getting lots of rain and wind gusts but nothing too bad. I haven't seen any damage. It's a pain in the a$$ to walk my dogs though. Where are you located?
Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I have a feeling that by the time we get to the thirteenth page, people's comments will start to become repetitive.Hows pittsburg? Sandy Strikin?
You remembered where I live! We're getting lots of rain and wind gusts but nothing too bad. I haven't seen any damage. It's a pain in the a$$ to walk my dogs though. Where are you located?
I remember everything 
10 miles from the jersey shore. Winds probably at 60 mph so far.
KnicksFE wrote:RonRon wrote:BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:Dont forget that kmart is an expiring contract. So they can trade jim later in the season to upgradeWhy would they trade him? This is their Ray Allen ----when has Kevin had players ie OKC to pay around? Why cant he avg 20-3-2 and 45% as sixth man? Then we have seen Lamb in pre-season and he can play and upgrade the bench as well
I don't disagree with you much, if ever. But Harden is going to get his opportunity to break out and lead his own team.
I said this during last year's playoffs, while Westbrook and Durant got all the credit leading up to the finals, Harden was off those interviews post game on TNT.
He isn't physically as talented as Westbrook or Durant but he is just as skilled and important to the team.
There is probably some jealousy involved and Harden want's to the opporutnity to build his own brand, not behind Durant, especially Westbrook, whom he probably thinks is more efficient than, at least offensively. Westbrook didn't answer the question correctly when the reporter asked if he thought if Harden is a max player.
He should have responded, Harden is very important to our team and makes things much easier for me, and the team.
In fact, he is much closer to a PG than Westbrook will probably ever be.
While OKC did receive a decent package, those players simply are not anywhere close to Harden's production, efficiency, and importance to the team.Again, Harden had a bad series vs Lebron and give credit to The Heat's DEF and their lock down defenders.
He loss confidence in his shot, possibly injury as well, and it showed when he missed wide open shots he normally makes with defenders on him.
I would have liked to see Ibaka get a chance on Lebron, especially when he was posting up/dominated on Harden and Durant as he was getting deep position too easily.OKC is probably the only team in the entire history of the NBA team that drafted too great for themsvelves, while collecting/developing talent that they could not keep as a small market team. Resigning Perkins is what really cost this team significant cap room/flexibility, his production as a undersized Center could be replaced by cheaper options, although at the time seemed like a bargain. Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka all deserve max/near max deals with their age, steady improvements, and skill sets.
I think if Ibaka add's to his skills with wide open 3pointers *which he has shown* and a few offensive weapons he would be under paid to stay on young/top franchise in the league.Harden is worthy of a max extension and if he signs for anything less, would become a great trade bait for OKC's future.
Many teams were going to target him with the MAX $$$ so either pay him or watch talent leave.
Like Nash has said, with his comments regarding his summer decision, prior to the trade with the Lakers.
Whether he will be following the road of the next Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, or SHAQ, will depend on his production, more imporantly, how Houston continues to improve in the upcoming years.Houston can still sign 1-2 signifigant players (depending on how they use their cap space) to go with the role players they already have, still with draft picks, cap room, and flexibility to make reasonable trades.
Josh Smith would probably be their #1 option this summer and they have the ability to pay him a very reasonable salary.Going over the cap for 1 year is not going to kill them, it is repetitive/consective years going way over the cap that the penalities mulitiplies.This is so important, not only Houston still own their pick this year, but still have enough salary cap available to sign a major player (posibly max contract) next year, and that team is on the way up.
Considering that a MAX CONTRACT for Harden ($60 million) is not the same as a max contract sign by veterans ($80 /100 million) yet, Harden has the potential to procuce just as much, I belive the trade was a good for both teams.
Indeed, I hate MOREY but he made a great move because it is highly unlikely that a ALL STAR would intend to go to HOUSTON during FA.
Not only does Houston have their own picks but our 2nd rounders as well.
2013 is suppose to be another NOT strong class, with 2014 being a very good draft as well.
With that said, I think having a coach/team that you has a fresh start that the coach can impliment a style/system and continue to build on their chemistry and identity is VERY IMPORTANT. A balace of youth/talent with veterans, not all either side is needed. Aside from OKC, not 1 team has ever been able to as successful building a team only through quality draft picks.
Cole Aldrich has the opportunity to be a solid player like Omar Asik that he never got a chance in OKC.
Dequan Cook is a combo guard that can a solid shooter with better DEF than TD.
TD would no longer have to worry about facilitating and running a team with Harden capabable of playing the PG position while concentrating on shooting and DEF.
Lazar Hayward is a player I have never seen before but I do know OKC and the entire team are known to all be gym rats that train and work hard with each others continued development.
Houston will have to cut/trade a few players by this month to bring their roster down to 15.
On a side note
-----------------
1) I find it funny how many people from the forum blasted me when I suggested Harden was going MAX player during the finals and how I wanted to acquire him to pair with Lin.
2) Same for trading Amare *for KG, at the time many felt Amare was an All STAR and KG was on his way to retirement
3) and at the least putting him in the 2nd unit because our 3 stars *ATM* in Melo, Amare, and Tyson Chandler did not work well together.
4) And yes, I wanted Lin to play *before Linsanity, while some said he was a D LEAGUE BUM* and suggested he has the ability to even start and initiate our offense with penetration which we lacked.
#just saying
RonRon wrote:KnicksFE wrote:RonRon wrote:BRIGGS wrote:callmened wrote:Dont forget that kmart is an expiring contract. So they can trade jim later in the season to upgradeWhy would they trade him? This is their Ray Allen ----when has Kevin had players ie OKC to pay around? Why cant he avg 20-3-2 and 45% as sixth man? Then we have seen Lamb in pre-season and he can play and upgrade the bench as well
I don't disagree with you much, if ever. But Harden is going to get his opportunity to break out and lead his own team.
I said this during last year's playoffs, while Westbrook and Durant got all the credit leading up to the finals, Harden was off those interviews post game on TNT.
He isn't physically as talented as Westbrook or Durant but he is just as skilled and important to the team.
There is probably some jealousy involved and Harden want's to the opporutnity to build his own brand, not behind Durant, especially Westbrook, whom he probably thinks is more efficient than, at least offensively. Westbrook didn't answer the question correctly when the reporter asked if he thought if Harden is a max player.
He should have responded, Harden is very important to our team and makes things much easier for me, and the team.
In fact, he is much closer to a PG than Westbrook will probably ever be.
While OKC did receive a decent package, those players simply are not anywhere close to Harden's production, efficiency, and importance to the team.Again, Harden had a bad series vs Lebron and give credit to The Heat's DEF and their lock down defenders.
He loss confidence in his shot, possibly injury as well, and it showed when he missed wide open shots he normally makes with defenders on him.
I would have liked to see Ibaka get a chance on Lebron, especially when he was posting up/dominated on Harden and Durant as he was getting deep position too easily.OKC is probably the only team in the entire history of the NBA team that drafted too great for themsvelves, while collecting/developing talent that they could not keep as a small market team. Resigning Perkins is what really cost this team significant cap room/flexibility, his production as a undersized Center could be replaced by cheaper options, although at the time seemed like a bargain. Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka all deserve max/near max deals with their age, steady improvements, and skill sets.
I think if Ibaka add's to his skills with wide open 3pointers *which he has shown* and a few offensive weapons he would be under paid to stay on young/top franchise in the league.Harden is worthy of a max extension and if he signs for anything less, would become a great trade bait for OKC's future.
Many teams were going to target him with the MAX $$$ so either pay him or watch talent leave.
Like Nash has said, with his comments regarding his summer decision, prior to the trade with the Lakers.
Whether he will be following the road of the next Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, or SHAQ, will depend on his production, more imporantly, how Houston continues to improve in the upcoming years.Houston can still sign 1-2 signifigant players (depending on how they use their cap space) to go with the role players they already have, still with draft picks, cap room, and flexibility to make reasonable trades.
Josh Smith would probably be their #1 option this summer and they have the ability to pay him a very reasonable salary.Going over the cap for 1 year is not going to kill them, it is repetitive/consective years going way over the cap that the penalities mulitiplies.This is so important, not only Houston still own their pick this year, but still have enough salary cap available to sign a major player (posibly max contract) next year, and that team is on the way up.
Considering that a MAX CONTRACT for Harden ($60 million) is not the same as a max contract sign by veterans ($80 /100 million) yet, Harden has the potential to procuce just as much, I belive the trade was a good for both teams.
Indeed, I hate MOREY but he made a great move because it is highly unlikely that a ALL STAR would intend to go to HOUSTON during FA.
Not only does Houston have their own picks but our 2nd rounders as well.
2013 is suppose to be another NOT strong class, with 2014 being a very good draft as well.
With that said, I think having a coach/team that you has a fresh start that the coach can impliment a style/system and continue to build on their chemistry and identity is VERY IMPORTANT. A balace of youth/talent with veterans, not all either side is needed. Aside from OKC, not 1 team has ever been able to as successful building a team only through quality draft picks.Cole Aldrich has the opportunity to be a solid player like Omar Asik that he never got a chance in OKC.
Dequan Cook is a combo guard that can a solid shooter with better DEF than TD.
TD would no longer have to worry about facilitating and running a team with Harden capabable of playing the PG position while concentrating on shooting and DEF.
Lazar Hayward is a player I have never seen before but I do know OKC and the entire team are known to all be gym rats that train and work hard with each others continued development.
Houston will have to cut/trade a few players by this month to bring their roster down to 15.
On a side note
-----------------1) I find it funny how many people from the forum blasted me when I suggested Harden was going MAX player during the finals and how I wanted to acquire him to pair with Lin.
2) Same for trading Amare *for KG, at the time many felt Amare was an All STAR and KG was on his way to retirement
3) and at the least putting him in the 2nd unit because our 3 stars *ATM* in Melo, Amare, and Tyson Chandler did not work well together.
4) And yes, I wanted Lin to play *before Linsanity, while some said he was a D LEAGUE BUM* and suggested he has the ability to even start and initiate our offense with penetration which we lacked.
#just saying
And I (along with Al Gore) invented the internet :-)
Nalod wrote:Why hate Morey? He is the GM for another team.
Yeah, I don't get it.
Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:Why hate Morey? He is the GM for another team.
Yeah, I don't get it.
If he were available in a year or two you know which fan base would clamor to get him hired
Nalod wrote:Why hate Morey? He is the GM for another team.Morey is doing his job but the poison pill contracts he offered to Asik and Lin while not dirty business certainly makes him look a bit cut throat. Not a fan of how he took advantage of Walsh in the McGrady trade either. He is an interesting guy to hear interviewed. He wasn't an accomplished athlete,just a fan that wanted to get into sports. I think he got his break in baseball and ended up in basketball management.