Knicks · OT: HARDEN TRADED TO HOUSTON!! (page 4)

holfresh wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

holfresh wrote:For a young team, Houston gave up a lot of pieces...OKC got to the Finals with Harden, how do u break that up??..Harden added a lot of balance to what OKC was doing...It's really interesting because you say, at what point do you stop stock piling young talent as OKC is still doing and fine tune, trying to add the final pieces to secure a Championship...OKC's GM just hung his arse out there when it wasn't necessary just yet...But all that said, he got lots of young talent and picks back...If you don't win after being so close with a young team, adding young talent doesn't matter...

This was purely a financial decision for OKC. No way to spin this.

Harden is a baller. Eric Gordon got the maximum so Harden should get it as well. The crucial thing to consider is the fact that Harden didn't mind coming off the bench. Some guys aren't going to be cool coming off the bench.

Now with all that said Houston won this trade hands down.

I really can't say Houston won this...Clearly I think the GM in Houston is trying to make a splash...His job will be on the line in the next year, so with that he is acting now...But Houston doesn't have a team to compete with the mid-tier teams in the Western Conference..Draft picks and young players will be very important to them in the next 2/3 years...

Yes, Morey is trying to keep his job. Deal is great for Houston.

Kevin Martin is 29 and expiring. Houston wouldn't have resigned him and lost him for nothing. For all we know Lamb could be Jordan Hill 2.0.

Harden is a baller. He reminds me of Joe Johnson. He can do everything well. Really no weaknesses.

Trading for Joe Johnson 2.0 seems like a great deal to me. Not many young SG's beter than Harden on the market.

holfresh wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:OKC is one shrewd franchise. Hard len is no max contract player, but that core did get to the NBA Finals. Getting value for him from Houston is a win win. I don't know what the phuck Houston is thinking. If they truly intend to make Harden their centerpiece, they'll be sucking for the long term.

What's your definition of a max player? In my mind Harden's value isn't really that far behind Melo's.

If anything the distance between Melo and Harden is way smaller than say the difference between Melo and Lebron.

Wow..Really???..U think Harden can carry a team for a month or be the go to guy in crunch time???

I think if you look at what he's done this early in his career..yeah. This whole go to guy in crunch time thing is a bit overblown too.

If the most important attribute a so called franchise player has to have is the ability to create his own shot and get a clean look when everyone in the building knows they're going to take a shot Jamal Crawford fits the bill but we all know there's way more to it than that.

holfresh wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Harden was a safety net for when Westbrook got out of control, and allowed Westbrook to just play basketball without having to do to much of the PG duties. Harden allowed Westbrook and Durant to focus on scoring. Westbrook is now going to have to handle PG duties more and Durant is going to have to look to creat for others a little more.

Houston with its cap space and prospects at this point should look for another player that may be on his way out like a Josh Smith an see if ATL bites.

Exactly. Morey seems to be learning from Pritchard's mistakes.

Pritchard didn't want to trade anyone he drafted. Even scrubs like Rudy Fernandez.

They still way overpaid though.

How did they overpay. They gave up garbage.

Where has Martin taken Houston then last 3 yrs?

What has Jeremy Lamb proven?

Houston robbed OKC for a proven player. Harden can handle, score, and facilitate the offense.

Don't forget the likely lottery pick, via Toronto, and the cap space from Martin's expiring. Even if they decide to resign Martin it'll be for much less than he's making now. Harden is good, but I don't see him carrying a team. OKC made out like bandits in this deal.

OKC made out like bandits??...They are not better today than they were two days ago...They lost in the Finals, this does not make them more competitive...But they do have pieces..I think its a tough call...

Let's be honest here. OKC wasn't beating the Lakers or the Heat with out some extenuating circumstance anyway. Neither is Houston. The difference is that OKC has the second best player in the league, a top five point guard, and a young promising big man already locked up. This trade gives them more cap space, a promising two-guard prospect and a chance at another promising prospect. Houston? They still have an overpaid backcourt and they might sneak into the playoffs now. OKC did really good here.

I disagree...I think OKC was really close...I think their lack of experience showed in the Finals and it was the difference...Their front line was missing in the Finals..Harden was missing in the Finals..They are all young..These issues can be resolved...I'm not so ready to anoint the Lakers as the team to beat..Kobe from the looks of the Olympics isn't the same player...Pau has disappeared the last few year and Kobe calling him out publicly didn't arouse any fight in him...How many years can Nash keep up this pace...They will have to prove they are a top team first...OKC has thoroughbreds...They will have to be reckoned with...

babyKnicks wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:OKC is one shrewd franchise. Hard len is no max contract player, but that core did get to the NBA Finals. Getting value for him from Houston is a win win. I don't know what the phuck Houston is thinking. If they truly intend to make Harden their centerpiece, they'll be sucking for the long term.

What's your definition of a max player? In my mind Harden's value isn't really that far behind Melo's.

If anything the distance between Melo and Harden is way smaller than say the difference between Melo and Lebron.

This statement is not very educated.

This response is not very educated.

newyorknewyork wrote:If Maynor stays healthy then OKC will be just as dangerous as last yr. Maynor will run the point and Martin will provide the scoring. Jones and Durant will be tough to matchup against at the forward spots.

This now forces Westbrook to guard SG's on defense when Maynor is on the floor with him.

holfresh wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Harden was a safety net for when Westbrook got out of control, and allowed Westbrook to just play basketball without having to do to much of the PG duties. Harden allowed Westbrook and Durant to focus on scoring. Westbrook is now going to have to handle PG duties more and Durant is going to have to look to creat for others a little more.

Houston with its cap space and prospects at this point should look for another player that may be on his way out like a Josh Smith an see if ATL bites.

Exactly. Morey seems to be learning from Pritchard's mistakes.

Pritchard didn't want to trade anyone he drafted. Even scrubs like Rudy Fernandez.

They still way overpaid though.

How did they overpay. They gave up garbage.

Where has Martin taken Houston then last 3 yrs?

What has Jeremy Lamb proven?

Houston robbed OKC for a proven player. Harden can handle, score, and facilitate the offense.

Don't forget the likely lottery pick, via Toronto, and the cap space from Martin's expiring. Even if they decide to resign Martin it'll be for much less than he's making now. Harden is good, but I don't see him carrying a team. OKC made out like bandits in this deal.

OKC made out like bandits??...They are not better today than they were two days ago...They lost in the Finals, this does not make them more competitive...But they do have pieces..I think its a tough call...

Let's be honest here. OKC wasn't beating the Lakers or the Heat with out some extenuating circumstance anyway. Neither is Houston. The difference is that OKC has the second best player in the league, a top five point guard, and a young promising big man already locked up. This trade gives them more cap space, a promising two-guard prospect and a chance at another promising prospect. Houston? They still have an overpaid backcourt and they might sneak into the playoffs now. OKC did really good here.

I disagree...I think OKC was really close...I think their lack of experience showed in the Finals and it was the difference...Their front line was missing in the Finals..Harden was missing in the Finals..They are all young..These issues can be resolved...I'm not so ready to anoint the Lakers as the team to beat..Kobe from the looks of the Olympics isn't the same player...Pau has disappeared the last few year and Kobe calling him out publicly didn't arouse any fight in him...How many years can Nash keep up this pace...They will have to prove they are a top team first...OKC has thoroughbreds...They will have to be reckoned with...

and i agree with holfresh. i think OKC was closer to a title with Harden this season than with their current roster. they need to hope Lamb and Perry Jones develop into really good players that'll put them over the top before their rookie contracts are up and they go through the same thing they just went through with Harden

holfresh wrote:I disagree...I think OKC was really close...I think their lack of experience showed in the Finals and it was the difference...Their front line was missing in the Finals..Harden was missing in the Finals..They are all young..These issues can be resolved...I'm not so ready to anoint the Lakers as the team to beat..Kobe from the looks of the Olympics isn't the same player...Pau has disappeared the last few year and Kobe calling him out publicly didn't arouse any fight in him...How many years can Nash keep up this pace...They will have to prove they are a top team first...OKC has thoroughbreds...They will have to be reckoned with...

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:If Maynor stays healthy then OKC will be just as dangerous as last yr. Maynor will run the point and Martin will provide the scoring. Jones and Durant will be tough to matchup against at the forward spots.

This now forces Westbrook to guard SG's on defense when Maynor is on the floor with him.

Thats true, at the same time most SGs can't keep up with Westbrook and will have to expend a lot of energy trying to guard him.

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

holfresh wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:OKC is one shrewd franchise. Hard len is no max contract player, but that core did get to the NBA Finals. Getting value for him from Houston is a win win. I don't know what the phuck Houston is thinking. If they truly intend to make Harden their centerpiece, they'll be sucking for the long term.

What's your definition of a max player? In my mind Harden's value isn't really that far behind Melo's.

If anything the distance between Melo and Harden is way smaller than say the difference between Melo and Lebron.

Wow..Really???..U think Harden can carry a team for a month or be the go to guy in crunch time???

I think if you look at what he's done this early in his career..yeah. This whole go to guy in crunch time thing is a bit overblown too.

If the most important attribute a so called franchise player has to have is the ability to create his own shot and get a clean look when everyone in the building knows they're going to take a shot Jamal Crawford fits the bill but we all know there's way more to it than that.

I think it takes a special player to walk into the gym night in and night out with the focus on you...I'm don't think Harden is that type of player...You are the go to guy in most of the possessions and in crunch time...A max player to me executes under these circumstances...I have to see Harden do this...He failed miserably as a complimentary player in the playoffs last year...Now the stoplight is all his???..I have to see this...I don't think crunch time is over blown, look at LeBron...Until LeBron proved that he can overcome in crunch time, the Heat could not advance...The team was still a toss up between him and Wade as to who will finish and neither was successful...When LeBron closed out a few games it was the biggest difference in the Heat as a team than the previous year...Now, I have to see Bron do it more to be convince but he did it and won a ring...

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:If Maynor stays healthy then OKC will be just as dangerous as last yr. Maynor will run the point and Martin will provide the scoring. Jones and Durant will be tough to matchup against at the forward spots.

This now forces Westbrook to guard SG's on defense when Maynor is on the floor with him.

They still have Thebalosha to guard the other teams best perimeter scorer when OKC decides to go to smaller lineups.

BigDaddyG wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:If Maynor stays healthy then OKC will be just as dangerous as last yr. Maynor will run the point and Martin will provide the scoring. Jones and Durant will be tough to matchup against at the forward spots.

This now forces Westbrook to guard SG's on defense when Maynor is on the floor with him.

They still have Thebalosha to guard the other teams best perimeter scorer when OKC decides to go to smaller lineups.

Then they lose the scoring Harden provided.

AnubisADL wrote:OKC went cheap. Would have been smarter to overpay now and try to win a championship. Now they have Perry Jones and Lamb as rookies. So now they get to rot on the bench.

OKC had a starter worthy player coming off the bench in Harden. Harden wasn't even complaining. Silly move.

This is what the owners wanted anyway. Now teams can't stop pile talent.

Those guys aren't going to rot on the bench. Their starters will get less minutes at their natural starting positions and they'll get more minutes at non natural positions. Which means OKC will run big and small lineups...those guys will play. Maybe not right away but they'll play.

Westbrook/Maynor
Sefo/Martin/Lamb/Westbrook
Durant/Jones/Lamb/Sefo
Ibaka/Collison/Durant/Jones
Perkins/Ibaka/Collison

But checking those Preseason stats when it came to Lin...did everyone know Harden shot 16-56fg and 5-20fg this Preseason? Just sayin. I think Harden will be fine in his new role and probably more determined to prove his value.

AnubisADL wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:If Maynor stays healthy then OKC will be just as dangerous as last yr. Maynor will run the point and Martin will provide the scoring. Jones and Durant will be tough to matchup against at the forward spots.

This now forces Westbrook to guard SG's on defense when Maynor is on the floor with him.

They still have Thebalosha to guard the other teams best perimeter scorer when OKC decides to go to smaller lineups.

Then they lose the scoring Harden provided.

But they gain a better playmaker and possibly a better defensive point guard in Maynor. It might not happen this year, but I think Lamb can develop into a two-way player in the mold of Kerry Kittles and he'll be able to fill the void. There are plusses and minuses. Not sure Scott Brooks is the man for the job, but OKC has enough pieces to repeat their showing from last year

BigDaddyG wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Harden was a safety net for when Westbrook got out of control, and allowed Westbrook to just play basketball without having to do to much of the PG duties. Harden allowed Westbrook and Durant to focus on scoring. Westbrook is now going to have to handle PG duties more and Durant is going to have to look to creat for others a little more.

Houston with its cap space and prospects at this point should look for another player that may be on his way out like a Josh Smith an see if ATL bites.

Exactly. Morey seems to be learning from Pritchard's mistakes.

Pritchard didn't want to trade anyone he drafted. Even scrubs like Rudy Fernandez.

They still way overpaid though.

How did they overpay. They gave up garbage.

Where has Martin taken Houston then last 3 yrs?

What has Jeremy Lamb proven?

Houston robbed OKC for a proven player. Harden can handle, score, and facilitate the offense.

Don't forget the likely lottery pick, via Toronto, and the cap space from Martin's expiring. Even if they decide to resign Martin it'll be for much less than he's making now. Harden is good, but I don't see him carrying a team. OKC made out like bandits in this deal.

No, OKC didn't. They broke up their core 3 offensive guys and made a team that went to the Finals last season worse in the short term.

newyorknewyork wrote:If Maynor stays healthy then OKC will be just as dangerous as last yr. Maynor will run the point and Martin will provide the scoring. Jones and Durant will be tough to matchup against at the forward spots.

I think it forces Westbrook to be a better point guard now that he has more a pure 2 and another true shooter in the back court. Harden wasn't what I call a shooter he was a scorer and a good one but K-Mart is no slouch. It's his health at risk and expiring concerning this trade.

BigDaddyG wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:If Maynor stays healthy then OKC will be just as dangerous as last yr. Maynor will run the point and Martin will provide the scoring. Jones and Durant will be tough to matchup against at the forward spots.

This now forces Westbrook to guard SG's on defense when Maynor is on the floor with him.

They still have Thebalosha to guard the other teams best perimeter scorer when OKC decides to go to smaller lineups.

Then they lose the scoring Harden provided.

But they gain a better playmaker and possibly a better defensive point guard in Maynor. It might not happen this year, but I think Lamb can develop into a two-way player in the mold of Kerry Kittles and he'll be able to fill the void. There are plusses and minuses. Not sure Scott Brooks is the man for the job, but OKC has enough pieces to repeat their showing from last year

Eric Maynor? He's done nothing in his four year in the league.

VCoug wrote:Eric Maynor? He's done nothing in his four year in the league.

Maynor has proven that he is an above average point guard who is more than capable of filling the ball handling duties that Harden was forced to take on last year.

BigDaddyG wrote:

VCoug wrote:Eric Maynor? He's done nothing in his four year in the league.

Maynor has proven that he is an above average point guard who is more than capable of filling the ball handling duties that Harden was forced to take on last year.

This is a double edged sword. If Maynor is as good as you say he is he will be getting paid and they will be trading him next.

3G4G wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:OKC went cheap. Would have been smarter to overpay now and try to win a championship. Now they have Perry Jones and Lamb as rookies. So now they get to rot on the bench.

OKC had a starter worthy player coming off the bench in Harden. Harden wasn't even complaining. Silly move.

This is what the owners wanted anyway. Now teams can't stop pile talent.

Those guys aren't going to rot on the bench. Their starters will get less minutes at their natural starting positions and they'll get more minutes at non natural positions. Which means OKC will run big and small lineups...those guys will play. Maybe not right away but they'll play.

Westbrook/Maynor
Sefo/Martin/Lamb/Westbrook
Durant/Jones/Lamb/Sefo
Ibaka/Collison/Durant/Jones
Perkins/Ibaka/Collison

But checking those Preseason stats when it came to Lin...did everyone know Harden shot 16-56fg and 5-20fg this Preseason? Just sayin. I think Harden will be find in his new role and probably more determined to prove his value.

Rookies need minutes to improve. They need the chance to make mistakes. I doubt that happed in OKC.

OKC is competing for championship. We'll see how many minutes Brooks plays the rooks.