3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:OKC went cheap. Would have been smarter to overpay now and try to win a championship. Now they have Perry Jones and Lamb as rookies. So now they get to rot on the bench.OKC had a starter worthy player coming off the bench in Harden. Harden wasn't even complaining. Silly move.
This is what the owners wanted anyway. Now teams can't stop pile talent.
Those guys aren't going to rot on the bench. Their starters will get less minutes at their natural starting positions and they'll get more minutes at non natural positions. Which means OKC will run big and small lineups...those guys will play. Maybe not right away but they'll play.
Westbrook/Maynor
Sefo/Martin/Lamb/Westbrook
Durant/Jones/Lamb/Sefo
Ibaka/Collison/Durant/Jones
Perkins/Ibaka/Collison
But checking those Preseason stats when it came to Lin...did everyone know Harden shot 16-56fg and 5-20fg this Preseason? Just sayin. I think Harden will be find in his new role and probably more determined to prove his value.
Rookies need minutes to improve. They need the chance to make mistakes. I doubt that happed in OKC.
OKC is competing for championship. We'll see how many minutes Brooks plays the rooks.
holfresh wrote:GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:holfresh wrote:GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:OKC is one shrewd franchise. Hard len is no max contract player, but that core did get to the NBA Finals. Getting value for him from Houston is a win win. I don't know what the phuck Houston is thinking. If they truly intend to make Harden their centerpiece, they'll be sucking for the long term.
What's your definition of a max player? In my mind Harden's value isn't really that far behind Melo's.
If anything the distance between Melo and Harden is way smaller than say the difference between Melo and Lebron.
Wow..Really???..U think Harden can carry a team for a month or be the go to guy in crunch time???
I think if you look at what he's done this early in his career..yeah. This whole go to guy in crunch time thing is a bit overblown too.
If the most important attribute a so called franchise player has to have is the ability to create his own shot and get a clean look when everyone in the building knows they're going to take a shot Jamal Crawford fits the bill but we all know there's way more to it than that.
I think it takes a special player to walk into the gym night in and night out with the focus on you...I'm don't think Harden is that type of player...You are the go to guy in most of the possessions and in crunch time...A max player to me executes under these circumstances...I have to see Harden do this...He failed miserably as a complimentary player in the playoffs last year...Now the stoplight is all his???..I have to see this...I don't think crunch time is over blown, look at LeBron...Until LeBron proved that he can overcome in crunch time, the Heat could not advance...The team was still a toss up between him and Wade as to who will finish and neither was successful...When LeBron closed out a few games it was the biggest difference in the Heat as a team than the previous year...Now, I have to see Bron do it more to be convince but he did it and won a ring...
Yes Harden def. looked lost against Miami in the finals. But he looked pretty ridiculous against the Spurs in the Western Conference Finals before that.
If you disagree with my statement about Melo and Harden then pick some objective way of evaluating a player and let's compare the two.
BigDaddyG wrote:VCoug wrote:Eric Maynor? He's done nothing in his four year in the league.
Maynor has proven that he is an above average point guard who is more than capable of filling the ball handling duties that Harden was forced to take on last year.
When did he do that? He's never averaged more than 16 mpg, 5 ppg, 3 apg, or shot better than 43% from the field.
AnubisADL wrote:3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:OKC went cheap. Would have been smarter to overpay now and try to win a championship. Now they have Perry Jones and Lamb as rookies. So now they get to rot on the bench.OKC had a starter worthy player coming off the bench in Harden. Harden wasn't even complaining. Silly move.
This is what the owners wanted anyway. Now teams can't stop pile talent.
Those guys aren't going to rot on the bench. Their starters will get less minutes at their natural starting positions and they'll get more minutes at non natural positions. Which means OKC will run big and small lineups...those guys will play. Maybe not right away but they'll play.
Westbrook/Maynor
Sefo/Martin/Lamb/Westbrook
Durant/Jones/Lamb/Sefo
Ibaka/Collison/Durant/Jones
Perkins/Ibaka/Collison
But checking those Preseason stats when it came to Lin...did everyone know Harden shot 16-56fg and 5-20fg this Preseason? Just sayin. I think Harden will be find in his new role and probably more determined to prove his value.
Rookies need minutes to improve. They need the chance to make mistakes. I doubt that happed in OKC.
OKC is competing for championship. We'll see how many minutes Brooks plays the rooks.
We're competing to be considered contention worthy yet we have minutes for...?
If and when everyone is healthy...
Woody is going to play all these guys second half of season?
Felton/Kidd/Prigs?
Smith/Brewer/Shump?
Melo/Novak/Copeland/White?
Stat/Melo/Copeland/Kurt?
Chandler/Camby/Kurt?
I don't see minutes for everyone particularly 1-3 come February when coaches need to start cracking down on rotations. Really no different for OKC
3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:OKC went cheap. Would have been smarter to overpay now and try to win a championship. Now they have Perry Jones and Lamb as rookies. So now they get to rot on the bench.OKC had a starter worthy player coming off the bench in Harden. Harden wasn't even complaining. Silly move.
This is what the owners wanted anyway. Now teams can't stop pile talent.
Those guys aren't going to rot on the bench. Their starters will get less minutes at their natural starting positions and they'll get more minutes at non natural positions. Which means OKC will run big and small lineups...those guys will play. Maybe not right away but they'll play.
Westbrook/Maynor
Sefo/Martin/Lamb/Westbrook
Durant/Jones/Lamb/Sefo
Ibaka/Collison/Durant/Jones
Perkins/Ibaka/Collison
But checking those Preseason stats when it came to Lin...did everyone know Harden shot 16-56fg and 5-20fg this Preseason? Just sayin. I think Harden will be find in his new role and probably more determined to prove his value.
Rookies need minutes to improve. They need the chance to make mistakes. I doubt that happed in OKC.
OKC is competing for championship. We'll see how many minutes Brooks plays the rooks.
We're competing to be considered contention worthy yet we have minutes for...?
If and when everyone is healthy...
Woody is going to play all these guys second half of season?
Felton/Kidd/Prigs?
Smith/Brewer/Shump?
Melo/Novak/Copeland/White?
Stat/Melo/Copeland/Kurt?
Chandler/Camby/Kurt?
I don't see minutes for everyone particularly 1-3 come February when coaches need to start cracking down on rotations. Really no different for OKC
Brewer was signed as insurance for Shumpert. He is likely gone next year. We have no other young players.
AnubisADL wrote:
Look familiar?
Harden is more Ginobli not Johnson and sometimes a little Prime Gilbert Arenas.
Joe has a lot post play in his game and he's very slow and deliberate in what he does something Harden does neither of really.
Harden is a 1-4 flat crafty off the dribble with penetration to the rim.... timely spot up shooter.... or pull up off the dribble
3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:
Look familiar?
Harden is more Ginobli not Johnson and sometimes a little Prime Gilbert Arenas
Come on man. You down grading Harden. I called him Larden during the draft.
Harden has proven he can ball. Please name some flaws in his game. He didnt show up in the finals yea but neither did Lebron his first time.
Sick handle for a guy his height and the ability to shoot off the dribble, pass, and stroke the long ball.
Did I mention he is 23yrs old.
AnubisADL wrote:3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:
Look familiar?
Harden is more Ginobli not Johnson and sometimes a little Prime Gilbert Arenas
Come on man. You down grading Harden. I called him Larden during the draft.
Harden has proven he can ball. Please name some flaws in his game. He didnt show up in the finals yea but neither did Lebron his first time.
Sick handle for a guy his height and the ability to shoot off the dribble, pass, and stroke the long ball.
Did I mention he is 23yrs old.
I edited that post as I wasn't finished and pointed out the differences in their games.
Ginobli Prime was a Helluva player not sure what you're getting at here talking about downgrade. What role did Ginobli play that's so vastly different than Harden now? He was 21/6 in one of their Playoff runs to a Finals victory Maybe you should Youtube him instead....
Spurs signed Ginobli to 2 deals and in each case figured to be bargains
6yrs $52mil(off rook deal)
3yr $40mil(ext)
Joe has received a $71 mil contract and $121mil contract....yes overpaid.... come on he's not Joe.
I think there is a big difference in Harden and Johnson and that is height and length. Johnson height and build gives most teams a problem. Harden is a proven role player but has to prove to be a go to guy when he is the teams number 1 option. Best thing to do is wait and see. The ball is in his cour
Interesting look at Harden when Durant or Westbrook aren't on the floor.
yellowboy90 wrote:I think there is a big difference in Harden and Johnson and that is height and length. Johnson height and build gives most teams a problem. Harden is a proven role player but has to prove to be a go to guy when he is the teams number 1 option. Best thing to do is wait and see. The ball is in his cour
People said Joe Johnson was overpaid when he went to Atlanta.
I think Harden is overrated, but anyway, guess we'll see. I think Houston got the best player in the trade and that's never a bad thing. They did give up a lot, so will see if it works out for them.
AnubisADL wrote:3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:
Look familiar?
Harden is more Ginobli not Johnson and sometimes a little Prime Gilbert Arenas
Come on man. You down grading Harden. I called him Larden during the draft.
Harden has proven he can ball. Please name some flaws in his game. He didnt show up in the finals yea but neither did Lebron his first time.
Sick handle for a guy his height and the ability to shoot off the dribble, pass, and stroke the long ball.
Did I mention he is 23yrs old.
You are down grading Harden by comparing him to Ginobli? I think its a solid comparison and that is no downgrade!
3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:
Look familiar?
Harden is more Ginobli not Johnson and sometimes a little Prime Gilbert Arenas
Come on man. You down grading Harden. I called him Larden during the draft.
Harden has proven he can ball. Please name some flaws in his game. He didnt show up in the finals yea but neither did Lebron his first time.
Sick handle for a guy his height and the ability to shoot off the dribble, pass, and stroke the long ball.
Did I mention he is 23yrs old.
I edited that post as I wasn't finished and pointed out the differences in their games.
Ginobli Prime was a Helluva player not sure what you're getting at here talking about downgrade. What role did Ginobli play that's so vastly different than Harden now? He was 21/6 in one of their Playoff runs to a Finals victory Maybe you should Youtube him instead....
Spurs signed Ginobli to 2 deals and in each case figured to be bargains
6yrs $52mil(off rook deal)
3yr $40mil(ext)
Joe has received a $71 mil contract and $121mil contract....yes overpaid.... come on he's not Joe.
Ginobli was a 25 yr old rookie. Stop it man.
James Harden is only 23 after his third year. Lets not act like Harden doesn't give the business to NBA starters.
mrKnickShot wrote:AnubisADL wrote:3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:
Look familiar?
Harden is more Ginobli not Johnson and sometimes a little Prime Gilbert Arenas
Come on man. You down grading Harden. I called him Larden during the draft.
Harden has proven he can ball. Please name some flaws in his game. He didnt show up in the finals yea but neither did Lebron his first time.
Sick handle for a guy his height and the ability to shoot off the dribble, pass, and stroke the long ball.
Did I mention he is 23yrs old.
You are down grading Harden by comparing him to Ginobli? I think its a solid comparison and that is no downgrade!
Ginobli didnt come to the NBA until he was 25 hence the discrepancy in salary. That is what I was referring too.
Harden came in at 20 yrs old.
That Toronto pick will probably be a pretty good one. My guess is between 4-8.
Lamb has a nice upside.
Martin will fit well into that offense.
I question if Harden is even a max player. I guess if Gordon is then maybe he is too.
mrKnickShot wrote:That Toronto pick will probably be a pretty good one. My guess is between 4-8. Lamb has a nice upside.
Martin will fit well into that offense.
I question if Harden is even a max player. I guess if Gordon is then maybe he is too.
Most lottery picks have upside and Lamb hasnt played a season game yet. If he pulls a Jordan Hill the deal is even more lopsided.
Harden being a max player is subjective because I didnt think Gordon was a max player but he managed to get the max.
mrKnickShot wrote:AnubisADL wrote:3G4G wrote:AnubisADL wrote:
Look familiar?
Harden is more Ginobli not Johnson and sometimes a little Prime Gilbert Arenas
Come on man. You down grading Harden. I called him Larden during the draft.
Harden has proven he can ball. Please name some flaws in his game. He didnt show up in the finals yea but neither did Lebron his first time.
Sick handle for a guy his height and the ability to shoot off the dribble, pass, and stroke the long ball.
Did I mention he is 23yrs old.
You are down grading Harden by comparing him to Ginobli? I think its a solid comparison and that is no downgrade!
James Harden is Manu Ginobli and I think we all know both guys are/were capable of starting. Year 3 for 3 Comparison
Now Harden going forward may prove to have slightly better numbers primarily due to role(s) played on teams. Morey has shown through quantitative analysis via advanced stats metrics he makes very good trades, makes very good picks according to draft position, therefore although not having an actual Superstar Player in the fold he does have players who are good at playing the game and hold value around the league. He will always have players other teams wants.
What I think he's done at this point that's truly remarkable is managed his cap situation to the extent he's helping not only his team but the league establish proper market value for players going forward.
AnubisADL wrote:Year 3 age comparison
Harden - 23 yrs old
Ginobli - 28 yrs old
Oh no doubt love the age factor in this for Houston but it doesn't take away from the Comparison in terms of basketball performance style of play with these two, numbers are near identical.
You don't want to compare Joe's 3rd to Harden's
