Knicks · OT: HARDEN TRADED TO HOUSTON!! (page 6)

AnubisADL wrote:Year 3 age comparison
Harden - 23 yrs old
Ginobli - 28 yrs old

Oh no doubt love the age factor in this for Houston but it doesn't take away from the Comparison in terms of basketball performance style of play with these two, numbers are near identical.

You don't want to compare Joe's 3rd to Harden's

Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey had been calling Sam Presti to discuss a trade for James Harden for months.

But the Oklahoma City Thunder wanted to sign Harden to an extension to keep their core in place.

Over the past few days, Presti finally began to engage Morey on trade talks because extension talks had reached an impasse where they would move Harden if he turned down the final offer from the Thunder ownership.

Harden's agent, Rob Pelinka, flew to Oklahoma City on Friday for a sit-down meeting with Presti. Pelinka was seeking a four-year, $60 million max contract and was pushing to get as close to that number as possible.

Presti was already discussing a trade with Morey and proposed Harden for Kevin Martin, Chandler Parsons, Jeremy Lamb and three first-round picks, including Houston's own in 2013.

The eventually agreed upon deal was for Martin, Lamb and two first-round picks, including a guaranteed lottery pick via Toronto.

You see unlike us who tip our hand on almost everything we do the Rockets don't let the world know every face card in their hand. lol @ Presti demanding that much initially in trade discussions. While Morey wanted a Marquee name he didn't push all his chips to the table and say deal caving. Probably helps to have an owner let you do your job and maintain a good media relationship throughout.

Im just speaking from a talent point of view. Harden is smooth. Dude really doesnt have any major weakness. He obviously doesn't have the athleticism of Durant or Westbrook but the guy is a top talent.

I knew he was the real deal last year when I saw him do this,

Harden does not have a catch and face up midrange game either, Joe clearly does.

Harden is more of a penetrator off the dribble Joe clearly is not.

Harden likes to operate from beyond the arc first with pick(s) set then do damage from there....Joe likes to operate within the arc initially with ISO sets

No matter how many Youtube Videos you post, which aren't necessary I think we all know who and what these players do. Harden and Joe aren't as similar as you make them out to be other than having the ability to run offense and get their shots.

3G4G wrote:Harden does not have a post game Anubis and Joe clearly does.

Harden does not have a catch and face up midrange game either, Joe clearly does.

Harden is more of a penetrator off the dribble Joe clearly is not.

Harden likes to operate from beyond the arc first with pick(s) set then do damage from there....Joe likes to operate within the arc initially with ISO sets

No matter how many Youtube Videos you post, which aren't necessary I think we all know who and what these players do. Harden and Joe aren't as similar as you make them out to be other than having the ability to run offense and get their shots.

I dont see the point in focusing on what he doesn't do well since he wasn't asked to specifically score only. Durant and Westbrook are the top scorers on that team. So we cant say definitively he cant post up or score in the mid range.

BTW, any player with handle like his can get any shot he likes. The issue is whether he can consistently hit shots off the dribble night in night out. I see no reason he cant have a Brand Roy/Joe Johnson type impact on that Houston team.

The beauty is we got a complete season to see what Harden can and cant do as a starter this year.

AnubisADL wrote:

3G4G wrote:Harden does not have a post game Anubis and Joe clearly does.

Harden does not have a catch and face up midrange game either, Joe clearly does.

Harden is more of a penetrator off the dribble Joe clearly is not.

Harden likes to operate from beyond the arc first with pick(s) set then do damage from there....Joe likes to operate within the arc initially with ISO sets

No matter how many Youtube Videos you post, which aren't necessary I think we all know who and what these players do. Harden and Joe aren't as similar as you make them out to be other than having the ability to run offense and get their shots.

I dont see the point in focusing on what he doesn't do well since he wasn't asked to specifically score only. Durant and Westbrook are the top scorers on that team. So we cant say definitively he cant post up or score in the mid range.

BTW, any player with handle like his can get any shot he likes. The issue is whether he can consistently hit shots off the dribble night in night out. I see no reason he cant have a Brand Roy/Joe Johnson type impact on that Houston team.

The beauty is we got a complete season to see what Harden can and cant do as a starter this year.

As of right now we're judging players off of how they play the game and what they currently do. Not on what we think they're capable of. I think Lin could be Steve Nash because he knows how to run PNR but as of right now he's not. He not near the shooter, near enough court vision, near the passer, but he can run PNR.

I think Harden is going to be much of the same player he's been in OKC except with a little more freedom. I don't think McHale will ask him to play a specific style in comparison to another player. He will incorporate him into what they do as it's more of an equal opportunity offense with constant motion. Won't be too many time seeing a player within their system to do ISO type stuff. Harden is not Brandon Roy or Joe, although he has some tools in his set to do similar things here and there.

Agreed we are going to find out is he a true 6th man masquerading as a starter or is a highly productive starting legit 2.

OKC has to stay competitive and economically viable in a small market. Westbrook, Durant and Ibaka are better and more important to Okc's success than Harden. Harden provides value to OKC as a bench scorer, but Kevin Martin can do the same thing. Plus OKC gets another lottery pick ad Lamb. The package is more valuable to OKC than 1 year of Harden. OKC makes out like bandits if they get a great player with the lottery pick and Martin picks up the scoring slack.

Harden has a lot of upside and Houston paid a premium for it. Houston makes off like bandits if Harden carries that ridiculous production over to when he's the focal point and playing more minutes.

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

Harden has played this role for about a season and a half. In terms of paying him not sure if a teams basis is off of what player another player is most like but maybe more so on productivity/potential/role within scheme to sustain or improve premium level of productivity and what market value suggest.

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

U confuse me at every step...Harden is a max player??? and I believe u have argued Melo is not a max player...Am I correct??

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

U confuse me at every step...Harden is a max player??? and u believe u have argued Melo is not a max player...Am I correct??

I believe Bonn is referring to Max as in what Harden's Max is for yrs in the league coming off rookie scale contract. Not 30-35% of a teams's cap. It's also one thing to give a player a new deal if you can project his career being on the level of a player like Ginobli or slightly better. Said player has his best yrs ahead of him vs giving Max money to a player when it's highly likely you won't see his best and that he may decline at a much higher Max %.

I could be wrong, probably should have let Bonn reply.

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

Harden has played this role for about a season and a half. In terms of paying him not sure if a teams basis it off of what player another player is most like but maybe more so on productivity/potential/role within scheme to sustain or improve premium level of productivity and what market value suggest.

What other young SGs are available.

The market for SGs who can actually shoot is small. Eric Gordon is frequently injured and undersized and got a max deal.

Harden is healthy, 6' 7", and can facilitate. Plus you can play him at SF.

Harden's competition is Tyreke Evans, Rodney Stuckey, OJ Mayo, Eric Gordon, Nick Young, Wes Matthews, Demar Derozan.

Wade, Allen, Martin, Bryant, and Wade are getting old. Harden is the future.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

U confuse me at every step...Harden is a max player??? and I believe u have argued Melo is not a max player...Am I correct??

AnubisADL wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

Harden has played this role for about a season and a half. In terms of paying him not sure if a teams basis it off of what player another player is most like but maybe more so on productivity/potential/role within scheme to sustain or improve premium level of productivity and what market value suggest.

What other young SGs are available.

The market for SGs who can actually shoot is small. Eric Gordon is frequently injured and undersized and got a max deal.

Harden is healthy, 6' 7", and can facilitate. Plus you can play him at SF.

Harden's competition is Tyreke Evans, Rodney Stuckey, OJ Mayo, Eric Gordon, Nick Young, Wes Matthews, Demar Derozan.

Wade, Allen, Martin, Bryant, and Wade are getting old. Harden is the future.

Well what I mean is...from team's perspective they aren't going to say..."Hey you remind of us of D-Wade let's see what he makes and that's what we'll give you."

They'll factor in some of the like names you mentioned along with how important they believe the player is to their club going forward.

The agent and player will look at what they're entitled to, absolute best case what market suggest financially no matter what player/players establishes it or what their clients numbers are.

Harden shouldn't be paid max either just because the league may be moving towards dinosaurs at his position

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

U confuse me at every step...Harden is a max player??? and I believe u have argued Melo is not a max player...Am I correct??

There was an "if" in front of my statement but otherwise you are correct.

So Harden is better than Melo?

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

U confuse me at every step...Harden is a max player??? and I believe u have argued Melo is not a max player...Am I correct??

There was an "if" in front of my statement but otherwise you are correct.

So Harden is better than Melo?

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

U confuse me at every step...Harden is a max player??? and I believe u have argued Melo is not a max player...Am I correct??

There was an "if" in front of my statement but otherwise you are correct.

So Harden is better than Melo?

Most likely, yes. I say "most likely" because my claim is based on only two seasons of data from Harden but it's two unambiguously better seasons than what Melo provides. It's still not clear to me that Melo even helps his team win games.

hahahahahahahaah

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

U confuse me at every step...Harden is a max player??? and I believe u have argued Melo is not a max player...Am I correct??

There was an "if" in front of my statement but otherwise you are correct.

So Harden is better than Melo?

Most likely, yes. I say "most likely" because my claim is based on only two seasons of data from Harden but it's two unambiguously better seasons than what Melo provides. It's still not clear to me that Melo even helps his team win games.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

U confuse me at every step...Harden is a max player??? and I believe u have argued Melo is not a max player...Am I correct??

There was an "if" in front of my statement but otherwise you are correct.

So Harden is better than Melo?

Most likely, yes. I say "most likely" because my claim is based on only two seasons of data from Harden but it's two unambiguously better seasons than what Melo provides. It's still not clear to me that Melo even helps his team win games.

I wonder how Melo would do if he played with Westbrook, Durant, Perkins, Ibaka etc.

Terrible. Only one ball.

Solace wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If Harden plays like he did last year, then the Manu analogy is apt and he is definitely a max player. The problem is that was only one season of data.

U confuse me at every step...Harden is a max player??? and I believe u have argued Melo is not a max player...Am I correct??

There was an "if" in front of my statement but otherwise you are correct.

So Harden is better than Melo?

Most likely, yes. I say "most likely" because my claim is based on only two seasons of data from Harden but it's two unambiguously better seasons than what Melo provides. It's still not clear to me that Melo even helps his team win games.

I wonder how Melo would do if he played with Westbrook, Durant, Perkins, Ibaka etc.

Terrible. Only one ball.