Knicks · Other games thread.......Place to chat about games on TV not Knicks. (page 95)

3G4G wrote:
It's only objectively substantial if OKC

retains K-Mart at a bargain

&

Raptors land outside out the Top 1-5 protections(eventually becomes unprotected yrs down the road)

&

Mavericks land outside Top 20 protection(eventually becomes unprotected yrs down the road)

&

Lamb becomes a stud

Other than that it's really a bunch of unknowns. It's only becomes somewhat significant if the Raptors land outside the Top 4 or 5 picks missing the playoffs. If they squeeze into the playoffs the Thunder have to wait another yr and this can repeat itself potentially the next few yrs if the Raptors can prove playoff worthy.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. OKC only gets the Raptors pick if it lands between picks 4-15, next yr 3-15, next yr 2-15, next yr 1-15(I think it's protected this far), then unprotected thereafter

You have to examine trades very thoroughly and see them accurately for what they are.

Nice try, but this is wrong. You're conflating two points of analytic, the point of consummation of trade, and postmortem analysis. Predictably, you are orienting a best case scenario at every point for Houston, with little justification in doing so...but that isnt terribly important to our discussion, just revealing your motivations.

As it stands, at the point of the triggering of the deal, houston gave up extremely high valued assets. Now whether those assets appreciate as projected, or depreciate, and also Harden himself, will determine who ultimately won or lost, but thats not relevant to the current discussion as we dont have a crystal ball.

If what you said held meaning, then draft picks would be valueless, since they derive their market value completely from projection, potential, and the unknown. We know draft picks are prized commodities, and have value and in that vain houston gave up a significant package, because its rich in future potential w/ high picks and a projected stud. What if Lamb becomes a superstar...okc wins a chip with Martin as a key contributer, and those draft picks all work out for the other parties and lead to high picks and great players, while the Rockets go nowhere as a team? See how that works?

sebstar wrote:

3G4G wrote:
It's only objectively substantial if OKC

retains K-Mart at a bargain

&

Raptors land outside out the Top 1-5 protections(eventually becomes unprotected yrs down the road)

&

Mavericks land outside Top 20 protection(eventually becomes unprotected yrs down the road)

&

Lamb becomes a stud

Other than that it's really a bunch of unknowns. It's only becomes somewhat significant if the Raptors land outside the Top 4 or 5 picks missing the playoffs. If they squeeze into the playoffs the Thunder have to wait another yr and this can repeat itself potentially the next few yrs if the Raptors can prove playoff worthy.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this. OKC only gets the Raptors pick if it lands between picks 4-15, next yr 3-15, next yr 2-15, next yr 1-15(I think it's protected this far), then unprotected thereafter

You have to examine trades very thoroughly and see them accurately for what they are.

Nice try, but this is wrong. You're conflating two points of analytic, the point of consummation of trade, and postmortem analysis. Predictably, you are orienting a best case scenario at every point for Houston, with little justification in doing so...but that isnt terribly important to our discussion, just revealing your motivations.

As it stands, at the point of the triggering of the deal, houston gave up extremely high valued assets. Now whether those assets appreciate as projected, or depreciate, and also Harden himself, will determine who ultimately won or lost, but thats not relevant to the current discussion as we dont have a crystal ball.

If what you said held meaning, then draft picks would be valueless, since they derive their market value completely from projection, potential, and the unknown. We know draft picks are prized commodities, and have value and in that vain houston gave up a significant package, because its rich in future potential w/ high picks and a projected stud. What if Lamb becomes a superstar...okc wins a chip with Martin as a key contributer, and those draft picks all work out for the other parties and lead to high picks and great players, while the Rockets go nowhere as a team? See how that works?

Nice try at being overly verbose but there is a big difference in what we gave up for Melo and what they gave up for Harden

What we gave up

Gallo(known quantity lottery pick)

Randolph(known quantity lottery pick)

Chandler(known quantity 1rst round pick)

Mozgov(known quantity young talent)

2014 1rst round pick(unprotected)

2016 swap pick(unprotected)

2012 second round pick

2013 second round pick

Eddy Curry(known quantity expiring)

Corey Brewer(known quantity waived)

Rockets gave up

Lamb(unknown quantity lottery pick)

Raptors 1rst(lottery protected)

Mavericks 1rst(1rst round protected)

Kevin Martin(known quantity expiring)

What the Rockets gave up was a very nice guest house and the porsche in the garage.....what we gave up was the land all the property sat on plus every car in the garage. The picks have value but the fact the picks have very good protection on them is what you're failing to acknowledge and most certainly didn't have any clue about, by the nature and tenor of your post.

3G4G wrote:

Nice try at being overly verbose but there is a big difference in what we gave up for Melo and what they gave up for Harden

What we gave up

Gallo(known quantity lottery pick)

Randolph(known quantity lottery pick)

Chandler(known quantity 1rst round pick)

Mozgov(known quantity young talent)

2014 1rst round pick(unprotected)

2016 swap pick(unprotected)

2012 second round pick

2013 second round pick

Eddy Curry(known quantity expiring)

Corey Brewer(known quantity waived)

Rockets gave up

Lamb(unknown quantity lottery pick)

Raptors 1rst(lottery protected)

Mavericks 1rst(1rst round protected)

Kevin Martin(known quantity expiring)

What the Rockets gave up was a very nice guest house and the porsche in the garage.....what we gave up was the land all the property sat on plus every car in the garage. The picks have value but the fact the picks have very good protection on them is what you're failing to acknowledge and most certainly didn't have any clue about, by the nature and tenor of your post.

You defeated your own premise. Yes, the knicks package was a largely known quantity of assets as you said --- and what we knew is that it wasnt that great. You can try to comically inflate their collective value by including what slot they were drafted in, but thats meaningless because there wasnt anymore potential left with them. They were veterans whose value was known (good role player at best to mediocre), a likely bust, and a raw player with little upside in Moz. There is potential franchise talent in that Rockets package (you manipulated the value some --- as the rapters pick isnt lottery protected, its top 5. Mavs isnt 1st round, its top 20)

In the probabilities of the NBA, Lamb and the raps pick have a fair shot of turning into franchise level talent based on potential. Two chances there, and in the NBA GMs will take 1 franchise talent over multiple role players. The Mavs pick, decent value. Not to mention that Kmart is a better player than anything the knicks traded. The packages arent even close in terms of value. You're just arguing emotion.

In your analogy, the property the knicks traded is a decent fixer upper on the bad side of town.

Anji wrote:

That's crazy

sebstar wrote:

3G4G wrote:

Nice try at being overly verbose but there is a big difference in what we gave up for Melo and what they gave up for Harden

What we gave up

Gallo(known quantity lottery pick)

Randolph(known quantity lottery pick)

Chandler(known quantity 1rst round pick)

Mozgov(known quantity young talent)

2014 1rst round pick(unprotected)

2016 swap pick(unprotected)

2012 second round pick

2013 second round pick

Eddy Curry(known quantity expiring)

Corey Brewer(known quantity waived)

Rockets gave up

Lamb(unknown quantity lottery pick)

Raptors 1rst(lottery protected)

Mavericks 1rst(1rst round protected)

Kevin Martin(known quantity expiring)

What the Rockets gave up was a very nice guest house and the porsche in the garage.....what we gave up was the land all the property sat on plus every car in the garage. The picks have value but the fact the picks have very good protection on them is what you're failing to acknowledge and most certainly didn't have any clue about, by the nature and tenor of your post.

There is potential franchise talent in that Rockets package (you manipulated the value some --- as the rapters pick isnt lottery protected, its top 5. Mavs isnt 1st round, its top 20)

Mavs pick is 1rst round protected to Top 20 I already spoke on this.... post prior to. So saying "first round protected" afterwards should have been understood. The point, it's not guaranteed to be OKC's pick anytime soon because it has protection although there's a chance. It's not a straight 1rst like our 2014 pick going to Denver.

The Raps pick let me help you out on this one again....as I was only slightly off...

Here's the protections on Raptors pick to OKC

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/bas...

2013 first round pick (protected top 3 and 15-30 in 2013, top 2 and 15-30 in 2014-15, top 1 and 15-30 in 2016-17, unprotected in 2018)

So they get a first pick 4-14 in 2013, 3-14 2014 and 2015, 2-14 2016 and 2017, unprotected in 2018

Basically if the Raptors win the lottery or make the playoffs the next 4yrs, pick won't be conveyed which is really the trump card in the whole deal.

The Mavs have to be a Top 10 team this year in order for OKC to get the pick and this will be the case until 2018....well the Mavs aren't doing well this year and to be honest it was known Dirk wasn't 100% prior to going into the season. The trade was consummated on Oct 28th. Once again protection stifles actual guarantee.

For the record I liked the trade for both teams and thought they did well in the trade but to say "SUBSTANTIAL" what the Rockets gave up.... naahhh I'd say they gave up "APPROPRIATE" value.

lol @ you trying to stamp down the value what we gave up.... off of known circumstances. So in essence you projected out to present from what you know post trade with Denver.

And you're projecting out for Jeremy Lamb something you said I couldn't do concerning the pick situations? Jeremy Lamb is not a starter, never has been, he's not getting any minutes at all see what I did there? Although I believe Lamb could turn out to be a decent prospect.

At the time we made the trade with Denver Gallo and Chandler were thought of heavily in high regards... hence Chandler involved in a Lottery Trade discussion with Washington and even this past off-season with GSW and Gallo was thought of in some circles as a potential All-Star and he is still only 24yrs old. They both were bonafied starters and averaging pretty good numbers considering roles.

CrushAlot wrote:3G you know the Knicks acquired brewer in that deal and waived him because d'ant couldn't use him?

It counts as a loss no matter how you slice it.

Supposedly Rondo told Tucker his sister tastes like Strawberry Smuckers!!!!!!

Landry Fields posted 11/10/3/1

3G4G wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:3G you know the Knicks acquired brewer in that deal and waived him because d'ant couldn't use him?

It counts as a loss no matter how you slice it.

No. It was another asset the Knicks got in the trade. What dumb @ss did to convince Walsh he didn't fit doesn't matter.

tkf wrote:kobe give nash the damn ball!!!!!

That was some of the most ridiculous HERO BALL I've seen in some time.

3G4G wrote:And Bonn says Kobe doesn't shoot the Lakers out of games(ROLLING MY EYES PROFUSELY @ KOBE BEING TOP 5 MVP)

I didn't say he *never* shot his team out of games. Even Michael Jordan sometimes did that.