Bonn1997 wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:Just visiting and wanting to see how you guys are doing
Pretty much the same. A few Melo Kool-aid drinkers are terrified of statistics.
Some are terrified of statistics in general no matter the subject you discuss. Mortified by them
ChuckBuck wrote:NUPE wrote:First it was Melo is not in the discussion. Now it is, Melo is only 3rd in the discussion. LoL! I think the point of the thread is that he is in the discussion.
That's always been the point. 3rd is too good a rank for some people.
Melo has been in past discussions at some point during a season and there are several others presently in the discussion.....Being in the discussion does not win you the award.
3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:NUPE wrote:First it was Melo is not in the discussion. Now it is, Melo is only 3rd in the discussion. LoL! I think the point of the thread is that he is in the discussion.
That's always been the point. 3rd is too good a rank for some people.
Being in the discussion does not win you the award.
No one has said otherwise. LoL!
3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:NUPE wrote:First it was Melo is not in the discussion. Now it is, Melo is only 3rd in the discussion. LoL! I think the point of the thread is that he is in the discussion.
That's always been the point. 3rd is too good a rank for some people.
Melo has been in past discussions at some point during a season and currently there are several others presently in the discussion.....Being in the discussion does not win you the award.
Doesn't matter if he wins or not. Just means he's in the running for MVP. He's in the elite class now is all.
the Knicks team offensive efficiency jumps from 98.2 to 117.3 with Carmelo on the floor.
I am sorry for using stats to show how maybe Melo is making an impact. People just replace Kidd with Carmelo above and it will read easier.
By the way I am sure that the difference doesn't mean that much. Also, I will stop now before being accused of a Melo lover.
yellowboy90 wrote:the Knicks team offensive efficiency jumps from 98.2 to 117.3 with Carmelo on the floor.I am sorry for using stats to show how maybe Melo is making an impact. People just replace Kidd with Carmelo above and it will read easier.
By the way I am sure that the difference doesn't mean that much. Also, I will stop now before being accused of a Melo lover.
sorry but i feel that this is a slightly misleading conclusion, your use of stats notwithstanding. you mean when he is on the floor with the other starters it is a higher number, and when the bench players come in the number is lower? that isn't a "jump." rather it is a dropoff when he and other starters go to the bench. i am assuming that is the norm for every team.
yellowboy90 wrote:the Knicks team offensive efficiency jumps from 98.2 to 117.3 with Carmelo on the floor.I am sorry for using stats to show how maybe Melo is making an impact. People just replace Kidd with Carmelo above and it will read easier.
By the way I am sure that the difference doesn't mean that much. Also, I will stop now before being accused of a Melo lover.
Of course, he's on the floor with our most efficient players.
Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:the Knicks team offensive efficiency jumps from 98.2 to 117.3 with Carmelo on the floor.I am sorry for using stats to show how maybe Melo is making an impact. People just replace Kidd with Carmelo above and it will read easier.
By the way I am sure that the difference doesn't mean that much. Also, I will stop now before being accused of a Melo lover.
Of course, he's on the floor with our most efficient players.
I guess that's why he has the best offensive +/- in the league of players with over 150 minutes. Melo just gets to suck the tete of Kidd and Chandler. 
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:the Knicks team offensive efficiency jumps from 98.2 to 117.3 with Carmelo on the floor.I am sorry for using stats to show how maybe Melo is making an impact. People just replace Kidd with Carmelo above and it will read easier.
By the way I am sure that the difference doesn't mean that much. Also, I will stop now before being accused of a Melo lover.
Of course, he's on the floor with our most efficient players.
I guess that's why he has the best offensive +/- in the league of players with over 150 minutes. Melo just gets to suck the tete of Kidd and Chandler.
A couple days ago he had the worst +/- of our starters. That #s gonna bounce around a lot. For a variety of reasons, +/- is not well respected by most statisticians. Basically, if your playing time coincides more so than anyone else's do with the playing time of the most effective players, then you'll have the best +/-. It also really helps if your +/- if your sub is a bad player.
Like I said, though, his role is to take a lot of shots and make an average to slightly above average %, and he's doing that role very well. I never said he wasn't helping the team.
Bonn1997 wrote:A couple days ago he had the worst +/- of our starters. That #s gonna bounce around a lot. For a variety of reasons, +/- is not well respected by most statisticians. Basically, if your playing time coincides more so than anyone else's do with the playing time of the most effective players, then you'll have the best +/-. It also really helps if your +/- if your sub is a bad player.
Like I said, though, his role is to take a lot of shots and make an average to slightly above average %, and he's doing that role very well. I never said he wasn't helping the team.
Are you talking about a single game where he had a worse +/- than all the starters? I've been monitoring the Knicks +/- for some time now and Melo has been at the very top of the cumulative +/- standings for weeks, and that will not change as the season progresses.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=22012&split=9&team=Knicks
Why does Melo have the best +/-? When he plays with our starters, they usually dominate other teams. When he sits to rest, our offense usually struggles and grows stagnant and the lead often disappears. Melo is then immediately returned to the game to save the lead and then extend it. LeBron has the highest +/- for his team. So does Durant. But when Melo has it then oh, the stat's not legitimate and excuses are made to hold the stat in a darker light.
You are disgusting.
LOL. I'm sorry I disgust you.
Bonn1997 wrote:LOL. I'm sorry I disgust you.
I want an apology too aand not because you disgust me but just cause.
tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.
He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
yellowboy90 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:LOL. I'm sorry I disgust you.
I want an apology too aand not because you disgust me but just cause.
Maybe if you say "please"
Scooby Jrue Holiday is definitely in the discussion to win MVP...he's nice sons
dk7th wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:the Knicks team offensive efficiency jumps from 98.2 to 117.3 with Carmelo on the floor.I am sorry for using stats to show how maybe Melo is making an impact. People just replace Kidd with Carmelo above and it will read easier.
By the way I am sure that the difference doesn't mean that much. Also, I will stop now before being accused of a Melo lover.
sorry but i feel that this is a slightly misleading conclusion, your use of stats notwithstanding. you mean when he is on the floor with the other starters it is a higher number, and when the bench players come in the number is lower? that isn't a "jump." rather it is a dropoff when he and other starters go to the bench. i am assuming that is the norm for every team.
No it means as a whole when he is on the floor compared to when he is off the floor. It's not like he doesn't play with bench players too.
yellowboy90 wrote:dk7th wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:the Knicks team offensive efficiency jumps from 98.2 to 117.3 with Carmelo on the floor.I am sorry for using stats to show how maybe Melo is making an impact. People just replace Kidd with Carmelo above and it will read easier.
By the way I am sure that the difference doesn't mean that much. Also, I will stop now before being accused of a Melo lover.
sorry but i feel that this is a slightly misleading conclusion, your use of stats notwithstanding. you mean when he is on the floor with the other starters it is a higher number, and when the bench players come in the number is lower? that isn't a "jump." rather it is a dropoff when he and other starters go to the bench. i am assuming that is the norm for every team.
No it means as a whole when he is on the floor compared to when he is off the floor. It's not like he doesn't play with bench players too.
well that's a good number then through the first 15 games.
3G4G wrote:Scooby Jrue Holiday is definitely in the discussion to win MVP...he's nice sons
I don't know according to convenientstatsthatignoreallotherstatsthataren'tconvenientformyargument.com. Holiday was born in Chatsworth, California. Chatworth has coorinates of 34°15′26″N 118°36′04″W. Statistics show that African Americans born in coordinates around 34°15′26″N only have about 2% chance of winning the mvp.
Shaq could have won the MVP for the next 5+yrs after he won his first NBA championship but he was penalized because he played with Kobe. Its possible that Lebron and Durant could be penilized since there teams are pretty much loaded with Wade, Bosh, Westbrook, Ibaka. Though Durant would get the nod since he hasn't won one yet. Stats like 4th quarter pts are measured heavily as well I believe.
If you look at all the teams currently with 10wins right now. Brooklyn, Knicks,Philly, Miami, Memphis, San Antonio, OKC. If you took the best player off the team which team would fail the most. Imo it goes Philly and NY. Melo has done more with less then all those other stars other then Holiday who right now is the MVP after the first 15 games.
Miami also has played like 5 contending teams who were coming off back to backs. Stern is a cheating bastard.
JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.
He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
He's not the favorite, but if the Knicks record and Melo's play is good enough who's to say it can't happen?
I certainly don't expect him to be the MVP, but it'd be stupid to say he doesn't have a shot.
It's only about 15 games in (not to mention he's curently ranked #3) and the Knicks are looking like a real quality team, how and why is he already out of the Lebron-Durant race?
