Knicks · Carmelo Anthony's MVP Season and the New York Knicks (page 35)
I certainly don't expect him to be the MVP, but it'd be stupid to say he doesn't have a shot.
It's only about 15 games in (not to mention he's curently ranked #3) and the Knicks are looking like a real quality team, how and why is he already out of the Lebron-Durant race?
newyorknewyork wrote:Shaq could have won the MVP for the next 5+yrs after he won his first NBA championship but he was penalized because he played with Kobe. Its possible that Lebron and Durant could be penilized since there teams are pretty much loaded with Wade, Bosh, Westbrook, Ibaka. Though Durant would get the nod since he hasn't won one yet. Stats like 4th quarter pts are measured heavily as well I believe.If you look at all the teams currently with 10wins right now. Brooklyn, Knicks,Philly, Miami, Memphis, San Antonio, OKC. If you took the best player off the team which team would fail the most. Imo it goes Philly and NY. Melo has done more with less then all those other stars other then Holiday who right now is the MVP after the first 15 games.
Miami also has played like 5 contending teams who were coming off back to backs. Stern is a cheating bastard.
Good post...
tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
Well then according to you're twisted logic it's a two player race, yet another team out has a better record than the teams those two belong on, and is playing overall considerably better.
And no, I don't think Melo will win it, but I do think he'll get more consideration than all of your favorite players....COMBINED.
Here's the thing so it won't get twisted, I root for Melo because he is a Knick, ultimately I want the Knicks to win.
You on the other hand would rather the Knicks lose, so that Melo won't be considered a winner.
You care about Melo more than anyone HOMER does.
knickscity wrote:well then that tells you that the team is not built well...want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for
a change..
Well then according to you're twisted logic it's a two player race, yet another team out has a better record than the teams those two belong on, and is playing overall considerably better.And no, I don't think Melo will win it, but I do think he'll get more consideration than all of your favorite players....COMBINED.
Here's the thing so it won't get twisted, I root for Melo because he is a Knick, ultimately I want the Knicks to win.
You on the other hand would rather the Knicks lose, so that Melo won't be considered a winner.
You care about Melo more than anyone HOMER does.
I dont know about that man. Consideration comes from a lot of places and the one place Melo wont get it from is the media (outside of NY, of course). I cant remember the last time the media was very friendly or positive about what the Knicks did. When the Knicks had their hot start this season, most of the analysts just asked if we could keep it up once Amare comes back. When Lin was doing well last season? It becomes "Can Lin and Melo coexist?".
TeamBall wrote:knickscity wrote:
Well then according to you're twisted logic it's a two player race, yet another team out has a better record than the teams those two belong on, and is playing overall considerably better.And no, I don't think Melo will win it, but I do think he'll get more consideration than all of your favorite players....COMBINED.
Here's the thing so it won't get twisted, I root for Melo because he is a Knick, ultimately I want the Knicks to win.
You on the other hand would rather the Knicks lose, so that Melo won't be considered a winner.
You care about Melo more than anyone HOMER does.
I dont know about that man. Consideration comes from a lot of places and the one place Melo wont get it from is the media (outside of NY, of course). I cant remember the last time the media was very friendly or positive about what the Knicks did. When the Knicks had their hot start this season, most of the analysts just asked if we could keep it up once Amare comes back. When Lin was doing well last season? It becomes "Can Lin and Melo coexist?".
Don't be so sure though, Melo made 3rd team last year for instance by playing one good month of ball.
If the Knicks were to achieve the 2nd or 3rd seed with a solid 50+ win record.....he gets consideration.
Doubt he win though.
tkf wrote:The team was 8-10 at home last year under D'Antoni. The team has gone 17-1 at home under Woodson. The team wasn't built wrong but the wrong guy was on the bench.knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
Give Mike Woodson a lot of credit for bringing out the best in him.
Feels good to have a real coach who understands the game.
tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
dk7th wrote:Are you agreeing with tkf that the team is built wrong or are you just commenting on the mvp process? I think you could give lbj the mvp every year and make a great argument that he deserved it. Same thing with MJ and Shaq for several years.tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
dk7th wrote:tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
Too bad the mvp rarely fits the criteria you've set.
I'd consider Durant to be a legit condidate, but does he make players better? Nope, but his efficiency is ridiculous, and he has elevated his game.
The vast majority fits this mold.....
Stats, team record, impact.
Stats can be in the form of PER, win shares etc.
Team record is pretty non debatable win......55 or better.
Impact....just watch how the player operates and gets the job done, and also notice what that players has on his team as well.
Early on, Melo has all of these covered, whether he has them the most at the end....only time will tell.
But i'd guess by your criteria Melo has indeed made his team mates better, quite a few are posting career highs in efficiency.
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Are you agreeing with tkf that the team is built wrong or are you just commenting on the mvp process? I think you could give lbj the mvp every year and make a great argument that he deserved it. Same thing with MJ and Shaq for several years. people should take a look at some of the numbers mike jordan was putting up while being nominated defensive player of the year or all-nba defensive team.tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
last things first: lbj should win the mvp every year and is there really any argument against this, other than falsely spreading the wealth or kowtowing to whimsy and subjectivity ? yes no question shaq and mj and before that magic and bird. include duncan and hakeem while we're at it. only injury should preclude any of them winning. others here apparently disagree with me but what do they all have in common above all else?: they make/made others better.
as to the first issue my answer is "both." i don't know if it is necessary to go into what our thoughts are as to whether the team is built wrong. but just for the record... i don't believe we have built a champion here and that gnaws at me. and it gnaws at me because i believe walsh had a genuine plan to build a champion. and that plan and the man behind it were swept aside for reasons i don't approve of, as i felt it was done in violation of my values.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Are you agreeing with tkf that the team is built wrong or are you just commenting on the mvp process? I think you could give lbj the mvp every year and make a great argument that he deserved it. Same thing with MJ and Shaq for several years. people should take a look at some of the numbers mike jordan was putting up while being nominated defensive player of the year or all-nba defensive team.tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
last things first: lbj should win the mvp every year and is there really any argument against this, other than falsely spreading the wealth or kowtowing to whimsy and subjectivity ? yes no question shaq and mj and before that magic and bird. include duncan and hakeem while we're at it. only injury should preclude any of them winning. others here apparently disagree with me but what do they all have in common above all else?: they make/made others better.
as to the first issue my answer is "both." i don't know if it is necessary to go into what our thoughts are as to whether the team is built wrong. but just for the record... i don't believe we have built a champion here and that gnaws at me. and it gnaws at me because i believe walsh had a genuine plan to build a champion. and that plan and the man behind it were swept aside for reasons i don't approve of, as i felt it was done in violation of my values.
The plan was to sign lbj and another free agent no? It didn't work. Not sure that the Amare signing has worked for more than half a season. The best move of the Walsh era might be the trade for Melo and at the time I didn't like the trade.
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Are you agreeing with tkf that the team is built wrong or are you just commenting on the mvp process? I think you could give lbj the mvp every year and make a great argument that he deserved it. Same thing with MJ and Shaq for several years. people should take a look at some of the numbers mike jordan was putting up while being nominated defensive player of the year or all-nba defensive team.tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
last things first: lbj should win the mvp every year and is there really any argument against this, other than falsely spreading the wealth or kowtowing to whimsy and subjectivity ? yes no question shaq and mj and before that magic and bird. include duncan and hakeem while we're at it. only injury should preclude any of them winning. others here apparently disagree with me but what do they all have in common above all else?: they make/made others better.
as to the first issue my answer is "both." i don't know if it is necessary to go into what our thoughts are as to whether the team is built wrong. but just for the record... i don't believe we have built a champion here and that gnaws at me. and it gnaws at me because i believe walsh had a genuine plan to build a champion. and that plan and the man behind it were swept aside for reasons i don't approve of, as i felt it was done in violation of my values.
The plan was to sign lbj and another free agent no? It didn't work. Not sure that the Amare signing has worked for more than half a season. The best move of the Walsh era might be the trade for Melo and at the time I didn't like the trade.
Yup, the plan was for LeBron, so that genuine plan was the equivalent of hitting powerball.
As far as the Melo trade, Walsh gets no credit for that at all regardless if it pans out or not.
Honestly don't see why Walsh is praise like he is....any GM could have sold at premium if told "don't try to win...just clear cap".
CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Are you agreeing with tkf that the team is built wrong or are you just commenting on the mvp process? I think you could give lbj the mvp every year and make a great argument that he deserved it. Same thing with MJ and Shaq for several years. people should take a look at some of the numbers mike jordan was putting up while being nominated defensive player of the year or all-nba defensive team.tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
last things first: lbj should win the mvp every year and is there really any argument against this, other than falsely spreading the wealth or kowtowing to whimsy and subjectivity ? yes no question shaq and mj and before that magic and bird. include duncan and hakeem while we're at it. only injury should preclude any of them winning. others here apparently disagree with me but what do they all have in common above all else?: they make/made others better.
as to the first issue my answer is "both." i don't know if it is necessary to go into what our thoughts are as to whether the team is built wrong. but just for the record... i don't believe we have built a champion here and that gnaws at me. and it gnaws at me because i believe walsh had a genuine plan to build a champion. and that plan and the man behind it were swept aside for reasons i don't approve of, as i felt it was done in violation of my values.
The plan was to sign lbj and another free agent no? It didn't work. Not sure that the Amare signing has worked for more than half a season. The best move of the Walsh era might be the trade for Melo and at the time I didn't like the trade.
the knicks, once they had been duped, fell back on the only choice they had, especially when d'antoni had already been paying his two years of dues with successive roster flush seasons. we conveniently forget that he had to endure two seasons of guaranteed shyte. so in a rare instance of where commerce and public relations ought to trump a more patient approach, they sign stoudemire july 9th. they had to do it. could walsh have opted to pass and keep the team without a "franchise face?" no he could not have. he came on to achieve two years of demolition to be in a place of building around the only player worth trading a a team for. when that plan is dashed you alter strategy and go with amare.
now from there walsh had the right idea: try to sign a point guard to audition for two years until chris paul becomes available, or else get the best possible point guard available. stoudemire wanted ridnour... i am not sure he was wrong. instead they acquired felton. ho-hum. two year-audition on a dirt cheap contract.
and in terms of rebuilding these are the initial/catalyzing first step and it's natural second step, which by nature must be best at complementing the first step, are what the knicks had here initially.
what happened next went against the next logical step in a logical plan. dolan stepped in.
instead of getting a complementary third piece they traded for a redundant second second piece. free agency could have been acceptable if somewhat repugnant. but no more than that.
from there things go awry, and frankly it offends me-- like an unruly relative or a bad presidential candidate.
dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Are you agreeing with tkf that the team is built wrong or are you just commenting on the mvp process? I think you could give lbj the mvp every year and make a great argument that he deserved it. Same thing with MJ and Shaq for several years. people should take a look at some of the numbers mike jordan was putting up while being nominated defensive player of the year or all-nba defensive team.tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
last things first: lbj should win the mvp every year and is there really any argument against this, other than falsely spreading the wealth or kowtowing to whimsy and subjectivity ? yes no question shaq and mj and before that magic and bird. include duncan and hakeem while we're at it. only injury should preclude any of them winning. others here apparently disagree with me but what do they all have in common above all else?: they make/made others better.
as to the first issue my answer is "both." i don't know if it is necessary to go into what our thoughts are as to whether the team is built wrong. but just for the record... i don't believe we have built a champion here and that gnaws at me. and it gnaws at me because i believe walsh had a genuine plan to build a champion. and that plan and the man behind it were swept aside for reasons i don't approve of, as i felt it was done in violation of my values.
very well said.. i have had several conversations with other posters off site, and honestly since the changes some of them feel the same way both of us do... the last sentence hit the nail on the head for me...
tkf wrote:My understanding of the plan was clear cap to sign lbj and another free agent. Can either of you expand on this championship plan that existed after he missed out on lbj and how it was foiled?dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Are you agreeing with tkf that the team is built wrong or are you just commenting on the mvp process? I think you could give lbj the mvp every year and make a great argument that he deserved it. Same thing with MJ and Shaq for several years. people should take a look at some of the numbers mike jordan was putting up while being nominated defensive player of the year or all-nba defensive team.tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
last things first: lbj should win the mvp every year and is there really any argument against this, other than falsely spreading the wealth or kowtowing to whimsy and subjectivity ? yes no question shaq and mj and before that magic and bird. include duncan and hakeem while we're at it. only injury should preclude any of them winning. others here apparently disagree with me but what do they all have in common above all else?: they make/made others better.
as to the first issue my answer is "both." i don't know if it is necessary to go into what our thoughts are as to whether the team is built wrong. but just for the record... i don't believe we have built a champion here and that gnaws at me. and it gnaws at me because i believe walsh had a genuine plan to build a champion. and that plan and the man behind it were swept aside for reasons i don't approve of, as i felt it was done in violation of my values.
very well said.. i have had several conversations with other posters off site, and honestly since the changes some of them feel the same way both of us do... the last sentence hit the nail on the head for me...
CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:My understanding of the plan was clear cap to sign lbj and another free agent. Can either of you expand on this championship plan that existed after he missed out on lbj and how it was foiled?dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:Are you agreeing with tkf that the team is built wrong or are you just commenting on the mvp process? I think you could give lbj the mvp every year and make a great argument that he deserved it. Same thing with MJ and Shaq for several years. people should take a look at some of the numbers mike jordan was putting up while being nominated defensive player of the year or all-nba defensive team.tkf wrote:knickscity wrote:Uptown wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:tkf wrote:JrZyHuStLa wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:He's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. Rightly or wrongly, if that continues, he will definitely get MVP consideration. I've never disputed that. The MVP voting is usually distributed simply among the top scorers on each of the 3 or 5 top teams in the league.He's not on the list because he's the leading scorer on a team doing very well. He's there because he's the best player on a team doing very well.
Clippers have Jamal Crawford and Blake Griffin who are scoring more points than Chris Paul, but Paul is the one in the MVP race.
The sooner you understand that its about the impact guys have rather than points, the better.
oh, we understand that.. but it is a combination of things, because if we talk impact with the knicks, then jason kidd has to be in the mix then...
Yea, because 8 PPG and 3 APG is deserving of an MVP award.
you said impact right? does kidd not have a huge impact on this team? maybe the biggest so far? so really it is a combination of things.. which is why bonn mentioned that he is leading scorer and mainly why you and a few others may feel he should get a look at mvp... if we are looking at impact, I think jason kidd impact has been larger this year..
8 and 3 can only impact your team so much. Sure, he's been a nice impact. He brings tremendous leadership, something that cannot be measured by statistics.
But you have to put up numbers for this award. It's the most prestigious single season award.
This is why guys like Jordan, Malone, Bryant, etc. have won it.
8 and 3 are role players numbers son. Not MVP.
YOU ARE NOT FOLLOWING... bonn said carmelo is being considered because he leads the team in scoring.. you said,it was because he was the best player on the team and then pointed out impact moreso than numbers... but what I am trying to tell you is that carmelo's impact is probably no more than kidds at this point, so if he is going to get any recognition it will be because of his numbers and that just won't be enough because he is not on par with the likes of durant and lebron..
I am not saying kidd will win mvp bro....
If Carmelo's impact hasn't been more than Kidd's, why is Kidd not on any MVP candidates list?
lol this is too easy.
you are lost... candidates list.. dude these made up list are not official. there are two real candidates... carmela isn't one of them.....
Comments like this just show that you cant be objective when discussing Melo.
Nah, comments like that just shows how much basketball common sense he doesn't have.
Kidd is a role player, a very good one though, Melo is the best player on the team.
The Knicks can win games without Kidd, they can't win squat over a season without Melo, not the way the team is built.
well then that tells you that the team is not built well...
want to talk basketball sense, only a few of the homers here are talking mvp after 4 games.. as if durant and lebron retired... you not only lack baskeball sense, but league pass.. try watching other games for a change..
one need only look at the heat-spurs game, splitter et. al. notwithstanding, to see the difference between a genuine mvp candidate and carmelo. even if the voting is somewhat whimsical and subjective there is no mistaking lbj's performance.
i think as the years go by even the most thick-headed voters have to look at the ability to make others better as the deciding factor over and above mere scoring ability or the sophomoric approach of "best player on the winningest team" that seems to characterize the latter-day stern era fanbase.
last things first: lbj should win the mvp every year and is there really any argument against this, other than falsely spreading the wealth or kowtowing to whimsy and subjectivity ? yes no question shaq and mj and before that magic and bird. include duncan and hakeem while we're at it. only injury should preclude any of them winning. others here apparently disagree with me but what do they all have in common above all else?: they make/made others better.
as to the first issue my answer is "both." i don't know if it is necessary to go into what our thoughts are as to whether the team is built wrong. but just for the record... i don't believe we have built a champion here and that gnaws at me. and it gnaws at me because i believe walsh had a genuine plan to build a champion. and that plan and the man behind it were swept aside for reasons i don't approve of, as i felt it was done in violation of my values.
very well said.. i have had several conversations with other posters off site, and honestly since the changes some of them feel the same way both of us do... the last sentence hit the nail on the head for me...
understanding? the point is the majority of the fanbase has projected this "understanding" onto the transaction. i gave my account of a logical plan in a subsequent post to this one. hence my heavy lifting is over.
now it is your turn to tell me what the plan was once they acquired melo in the manner that they did?
the easier answer would be "they didn't have a plan" but somehow i think i am going to hear the harder answer....