Knicks · Carmelo Anthony's MVP Season and the New York Knicks (page 51)

Anji wrote:

DAT DAT DAT DAT DAT Real talk.
Kobe Check
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Kidd Check
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Random Picture with Melo

I just watched that video right now...I cannot believe Jason Kidd said that about Melo!

I am outraged that Jason Kidd told Stephen A to spread the word that Melo's an "unselfish player who trusts his teammates"

Such a Dolan influenced move.

Proving to the NBA world exactly why Kobe Bryant himself consideres Melo to be the toughest cover in the game today. Heading into tonight's game Kobe Bryant stated that Melo's size, speed, shooting range, ability to drive to the rim and score in the post make him one of the most lethal offensive weapons in the NBA. How does Melo respond to Kobe's remarks and/or compliments? He drops 30 points off 10/15 shooting, 3 boards, 0 turnovers and 1 steal during only 23 minutes of play.

Melo's first quarter eruption was nothing short of pure greatness. 22 points off I believe 8/9 shooting during the first quarter was simply jaw-dropping. Led our team to 41 first quarter points. How great was Melo's first quarter performance? Lets just say that Melo himself only finished two shy of the franchise record for points during a sinlge quarter; held by both Allan Houston and Willis Reed.

By the time that Melo left the game due to an injury, his damage in regards to Los Angeles was already done. We were up by 17 points with 6:54 remaining in the 3rd quarter. Too much for Kobe, Howard and the Lakers to overcome during a 9 point loss. Not taking anything away from the rest of our team but Melo, without question, won this game for our Knicks tonight. It only took him 23 minutes to win the game too.

Someone created a thread the other night asking if Melo would ever break Madison Square Garden's all-time (arena) record for most points scored during a single game. Only time will tell but on this night Melo was on pace to pass Bryant's building record of 61 points. What could have been.

A scoring phenom if I've ever seen one.

NYKMentality wrote:And Carmelo Anthony puts up (yet) another MVP type of performance against Kobe Bryant and the Lakers tonight.

Proving to the NBA world exactly why Kobe Bryant himself consideres Melo to be the toughest cover in the game today. Heading into tonight's game Kobe Bryant stated that Melo's size, speed, shooting range, ability to drive to the rim and score in the post make him one of the most lethal offensive weapons in the NBA. How does Melo respond to Kobe's remarks and/or compliments? He drops 30 points off 10/15 shooting, 3 boards, 0 turnovers and 1 steal during only 23 minutes of play.

Melo's first quarter eruption was nothing short of pure greatness. 22 points off I believe 8/9 shooting during the first quarter was simply jaw-dropping. Led our team to 41 first quarter points. How great was Melo's first quarter performance? Lets just say that Melo himself only finished two shy of the franchise record for points during a sinlge quarter; held by both Allan Houston and Willis Reed.

By the time that Melo left the game due to an injury, his damage in regards to Los Angeles was already done. We were up by 17 points with 6:54 remaining in the 3rd quarter. Too much for Kobe, Howard and the Lakers to overcome during a 9 point loss. Not taking anything away from the rest of our team but Melo, without question, won this game for our Knicks tonight. It only took him 23 minutes to win the game too.

Someone created a thread the other night asking if Melo would ever break Madison Square Garden's all-time (arena) record for most points scored during a single game. Only time will tell but on this night Melo was on pace to pass Bryant's building record of 61 points. What could have been.

A scoring phenom if I've ever seen one.

Nah, he is Ronnie Brewer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ChuckBuck wrote:

Anji wrote:

DAT DAT DAT DAT DAT Real talk.
Kobe Check
SAS Check
Skip Check
Kidd Check
ESPN Check
Random Picture with Melo

I just watched that video right now...I cannot believe Jason Kidd said that about Melo!

I am outraged that Jason Kidd told Stephen A to spread the word that Melo's an "unselfish player who trusts his teammates"

Such a Dolan influenced move.

please tell me you are joking!!!!

The chemistry and trust is adding up to more than whats on paper.

Homers hoped for it and love team so they say "go team" and "believe".

Haters wanted proof after years of starphuch rhetoric.

Nobody saw this coming.

Its a wonderful thing to see.

Lebron had to go thru it (trusting) as did Jordan for them to get to the next level.

Melo is fulfilling the starphuch! Praise be upon him!

Nalod wrote:
What is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened.

The chemistry and trust is adding up to more than whats on paper.

Homers hoped for it and love team so they say "go team" and "believe".

Haters wanted proof after years of starphuch rhetoric.

Nobody saw this coming.

Its a wonderful thing to see.

Lebron had to go thru it (trusting) as did Jordan for them to get to the next level.

Melo is fulfilling the starphuch! Praise be upon him!

I fully endorse this post.

Nalod wrote:
What is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened.

The chemistry and trust is adding up to more than whats on paper.

Homers hoped for it and love team so they say "go team" and "believe".

Haters wanted proof after years of starphuch rhetoric.

Nobody saw this coming.

Its a wonderful thing to see.

Lebron had to go thru it (trusting) as did Jordan for them to get to the next level.

Melo is fulfilling the starphuch! Praise be upon him!

Actually someone did.

misterearl wrote:30 points in 23 minutes

That's awesome but what's even more amazing is that he actually scored 33 in 12 minutes while a nugget in the 3rd qtr.

Nalod wrote:
What is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened.

The chemistry and trust is adding up to more than whats on paper.

Homers hoped for it and love team so they say "go team" and "believe".

Haters wanted proof after years of starphuch rhetoric.

Nobody saw this coming.

Its a wonderful thing to see.

Lebron had to go thru it (trusting) as did Jordan for them to get to the next level.

Melo is fulfilling the starphuch! Praise be upon him!

Speak for yourself Nalod, not for us all. Nothing against you but you've continued to mention others as being and/or were "homers". I stated alot more than just "go team go" and/or "I believe". Stop believing your own thoughts and/or lies in regards to others. Just because you (yourself) couldn't envision a true contender during the offseason, doesn't have anything to do with myself and/or lots of other long time New York Knick fans.

I'm someone who personally seen (during the offseason) the deepest team dating back to the 1993-1994 Knicks team. I'm someone who made it known, heading into the season, that this was going to become our strongest team in 19-20 years. Specifically compared our 2012-2013 team to our throwback Knicks of 1993-1994. As of last night we surpassed the 93-94 team for the 3rd strongest start (after 22 games) in franchise history. I stated time and time again (during the offseason) how we were on the verge of featuring the deepest team in the league and/or one of the deepest teams in Knicks franchise history. All it took was some thought process combined with years of Knicks/NBA fan experience.

All you'd have to do is google A.) "Who's ready for our 2012-2013 New York Knicks"? B.) "Who wins; the 1993-1994 Knicks or the 2012-2013 Knicks"? and/or C.) "The different types of lineups that the Knicks can field"

and this is what you'll find...

NYK Mentality wrote:Who's ready for our 2012-2013 New York Knicks?

As a franchise, we've only won 4 Atlantic Division titles. We haven't won our Atlantic Division dating back to 1994. We've landed consecutive postseason appearances for the first time since 1999-2000, 2000-2001. With all that said, it's been a long time coming, but I truthfully believe we have our first (true) Eastern Conference Contender since the 90's. We could be on the verge of watching a very special N.Y Knicks team, one who I believe can win our Atlantic Division for not only the first time since 1994, but also the 5th time in franchise history.

We have all the pieces in place in order to feature a true contender.

Veterans at the PG position in Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd along with a very smart/experienced basketball player in Pablo Prigioni. A very athletic Iman Shumpert at the 2G position. A kid who plays his heart out on the defensive end of the court. A throwback type of 90's Knicks player. This kid made a name for himself, during only his rookie season last year, as an excellent perimeter defender. A phenom scorer in Carmelo Anthony at the SF position (one of the greatest scorers this franchise has ever seen). A franchise player who can dominate the wings. A player who has ice water running through his veins during clutch situations/closing moments. Melo has became the leader of our Knicks franchise. A very talented PF in Amar'e Stoudemire. Yes, he did have an off-season last year, but at the same time, he's been focused during the entire offseason. Just ask Hakeem Olajuwon. Stoudemire is ready to compete. If Stoudemire can return to PHX form, or better yet 2010 form in which he led our franchise to the playoffs for the first time since the 2003-2004 season? We then feature a PF in which can compete with any PF out there. How quickly some fans have (already) fogotten what Amar'e did for our franchise/team during the 2010-2011 season. Last but not least, in regards to our starting 5; A championship caliber Center in Tyson Chandler. The heart and sould of our Knicks team is what I now consider Tyson Chandler.

In regards to our bench? We now have something to look forward to. We truthfully have as deep of a bench as I've ever seen in regards to our Knicks franchise. We're featuring Jason Kidd as a veteran backup with postseason/championship experience along with a 3rd string PG in Pablo Prigioni who just averaged 6.1 assists per game during only 23.3 minutes per game during our preseason. Pablo, chacnes are, would start for Miami at the PG position. And he's only our 3rd stringer behind Felton and Kidd at the PG position. J.R Smith who can provide us with not only instant offense off the bench as a 6th man, but also lots of energy, effort, and hustle on the defensive side of the ball. A deadly assassin from beyond the arc in Steve Novak. Novak is a weapon coming off the bench. Both J.R and Novak can provide us with a strong scoring punch off the bench. Ronnie Brewer will provide us with strong perimeter defense at the 2G position. A player who can also move without the ball and slash on the offensive end of the court. I consider Brewer an actual role player. A very solid backup Center in Marcus Camby. Camby may be 38 years of age, but that still doesn't change the fact that he still averaged 23.0 minutes, 1.4 blocks and 9 boards per game last season. Can't ask for more quality out of your backup Center. Camby will be well rested behind Tyson, and ready to contribute moving forward. Kurt Thomas may be 40 years of age, but he's in very good physical shape/condition for a player who's been in this league for 17 years. Just an overall solid basketball player. He's solid depth overall. Stoudemire will start at the 4, Camby may play some 4 down low, we all know Melo can play bully-ball at the PF position; so Kurt Thomas should also be well rested and ready to compete off the bench. Who knows what we'll get out of Rasheed Wallace, but if he plays? I know we'll get his all. He'll play with toughness down low, without question. Rasheed has never backed down from no man. Not a bad 13th man off the bench. Last but not least, our wildcard in Chris Copeland. He's an unknown, yes, but he's an unknown with scoring ability at 6'8.

You won't find a deeper bench that New York's.

We're also featuring a defensive minded coach in Mike Woodson, who must be licking his chops in regards to our current team. Full of defensive minded players. Kidd will give it his all at the PG position on defense. Just a tough player. Both Shumpert and Brewer will cause defensive havoc on the perimeter. Melo is a very strong defensive player when focused (which he's been focued on defense as well since Woodson arrived). Veterans such as Kurt Thomas and Marcus Camby aren't going to back down on defense either. True defensive minded veterans right there. Tyson Chandler leads the way as our defensive anchor. The NBA's reigning defensive player of the year. We also have plenty of big bodies in which we can throw out there. BIG's in whom can board off the glass. Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby, Amar'e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler. This hasn't been the case in years past.

In closing? I see a very deep/complete team. Veterans at the PG position. Scorers in J.R Smith, Melo, Amar'e, Novak, Copeland and even Felton has a career average of 13.4 points per game. A defensive minded coach along with defensive minded players in Kidd, Shump, Brewer, Kurt Thomas, Camby and Chandler. BIG's who can board off the glass in Rasheed, Kurt Thomas, Camby, Stoudemire (career average of 8.8 boards per game) and Tyson Chandler. Melo is also a very strong rebounder amongst NBA SF's as well. Lots of role players coming off the bench. One of the deepest benches in the game today etc, etc.

Yes, a very long winded post, but it's because I believe we're on the verge of witnessing our strongest Knicks team since the mid 90's here in 2012-2013.

NYK Mentality wrote:Who wins; the 1993-1994 Knicks or the 2012-2013 Knicks?

Yes, I understand that we haven't seen these 2012-2013 Knicks take the court (at full strength) during a game that means something, but roster wise? This could be a very good game.

I'm an old school throwback 90's type of Knicks fan. Loved Ewing leading that 94 Knicks team, but at the same time, I believe this 2012 Knicks team could at least compete with those guys.

SCORING

- Starks (19) and Ewing (24.5) were the only two players who averaged anything over than 11.9 points per game. The Oak (Oakley) was our 3rd leading scorer at 11.8 points per game. Hubert Davis averaged 11.0 and Charles Smith averaged 10.4 per.

I believe we can get this type of scoring (Ewing/Starks combined) between Melo (25+) and Stoudemire (17-19). J.R Smith should also drop 12-15 per (career average of 12.5), but surrounded by this much talent? I look for J.R Smith to break out. A much better 3rd option when compared to Oakley. Scoring wise that is. Same goes for Felton. I can see him averaging close to 12-15 per as well, who's posted a career average of 13.4 (and even averaged 11.4 last season during an off year). Felton would without question, compete with Hubert Davis scoring wise. Hubert averaged 11.0. Then we also have Steve Novak, who should be good for 6-9 per.

There is no question about it, our Knicks offense of 2012-2013 is a much better (as a unit) scoring offense. Those 90 Knick teams really did struggle (at times) scoring the basketball. Great defensive team though.

REBOUNDING:

Ewing (11.2) and Oakley (11.8) combined for 23 boards per game. Mason averaged 5.8 boards per game. Those were without question, our three strongest BIG's off the glass. Charles Smith was decent. That N.Y trio of Ewing, Oakley and Mason combined for 28.8 boards per game. They were tough as nails down low, to say the least.

Tyson Chandler averaged 9.9 boards per game last season, and even Stoudemire has a career average of 8.8 boards per game. Combined, I believe both Chandler and Stoudemire can combine for 19 boards per game this up coming season. Then we have Marcus Camby, who averaged 9.0 boards per game last season. Because of Camby, I believe we'd be able to compete against that 94 Knicks team (on the boards). Beat them? I'm not sure, but Carmelo being able to board as a SF would contribute as well. A career average of 6.3 boards per game, in regards to Melo. Charles Smith only averaged 3.8 boards per game during the 94 season.

Anthony Bonner, Charles Smith, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley and Patrick Ewing.
vs
Kurt Thomas, Carmelo Anthony, Marcus Camby, Amar'e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler.

It would've became a war down low. Kidd would also make Starks work for rebounds from the Guard position. No question.

Who wins the battle of the boards? Truthfully, first reaction would be 94 Knicks, but I'm not quite sure about that anymore. Not after the additions of Kidd, Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas and Marcus Camby.

3 POINT SHOOTING

Starks averaged 5.7 attempts per game. .335% from beyond the arc. Rivers averaged 2.7 attempts per game with an average of .365 and Davis averaged 2.4 attempts per game with a .402%.

Novak has Starks beat as our 3 point shooter, without question. Novak averaged 6.2 attempts per game last season with a .436%. J.R Smith averaged 5.5 3's per game last season with a .347% and Melo averaged 3.7 attempts per game with an average of .335%.

Starks, Rivers, Davis and Greg Anthony.
vs.
Novak, J.R Smith, Melo and Kidd.

I'm going with the Knicks of 2012 in regards to outside shooting ability.

ASSIST'S PER GAME:

Starks: 5.9
Rivers: 5.3
Anthony: 4.6
Harper: 4.4.

Stakrs was a 2G, but we featured 3 PG's who could dish the rock back in 94.

Felton averaged 6.5 assists on an off season last year.
Kidd averaged 5.5 assists per game last season.
Carmelo Anthony averaged 3.6 assists per game last season.
Pablo Prigioni is a question mark.

I believe Felton/Kidd can match Starks/Rivers but I believe the Knicks of 94 take it due to Anthony and Harper over Melo/Prigo.

IN CLOSING:

STARTERS:
C: Tyson Chandler vs Patrick Ewing.
PF: Amar'e Stoudemire vs Charles Oakley.
SF: Carmelo Anthony vs Charles Smith.
2G: Iman Shumpert vs John Starks.
PG: Raymond Felton vs Doc Rivers.

I give the 1994 Knicks the advantage due to Ewing/Oakley/Starks over Chandler/Amar'e and Shumpert. Although I take Felton/Melo over both Rivers/Smith at the PG/SF position(s).

BENCH:
C: Marcus Camby vs Herb Williams. 2012.
PF: Kurt Thomas vs Anthony Mason. 1994.

SF: Steve Novak vs Anthony Bonner. 2012.
G: J.R Smith (2G) vs Greg Anthony (PG). 2012.

PG: Jason Kidd vs Derek Harper. 1994.
PG: Pablo Prigioni vs Hubert Davis. Question Mark; but will give to 94 due to expericne.

2G: Ronnie Brewer vs Rolando Antonio Blackman. 2012.
13th: Rasheed Wallace vs Tony Campbell. 2012.

Overall? I think our bench of 2012 murders the bench of 1994.

With all that said? I have no clue who wins this game. All I know is, this is our deepest/most talented Knicks team since that 1993-1994 Knicks squad. We have some Knick fans talking about "the reset button" before 2012-2013 has even started. I'm not sure some Knick fans truthfully know how deep we currently are. First true contender since the mid 90's. (I never really considered those Sprewell/Houston led Knick teams as true NBA Championship contenders). I finally believe we have a contender.

NYK Mentality wrote:The different types of lineups that the Knicks can field.

Since I've always been a fan of hard nosed defense, I'll start this thread off with a defensive mentality. I'm trying to put together our best overall defensive unit.

C: Tyson Chandler.
PF: Marcus Camby.
SF: Carmelo Anthony.
2G: Ronnie Brewer.
PG: Iman Shumpert.

I believe, that's the best defensive unit we could field, and good luck scoring on this N.Y defense. Picture this, the Knicks are up by 8 points with 6 minutes to go. It's time to close out the game with defense. Shumpert with great on ball defense. Causing havoc, making it difficult for opposing PG's to bring the ball up. Then we have both Brewer and Melo defending the perimeter/wings. Locking down. Along with both Tyson Chandler and Marcus Camby protecting the paint, contesting shots and boarding strong off the glass. Coach Woodson must be licking his chops right about now...

It's been a while, but defense has finally arrived/returned to New York.

Now, what about an all offensive unit? It's fun just thinking about...

C: Amar'e Stoudemire.
PF: Carmelo Anthony.
SF: Steve Novak.
2G: J.R Smith.
PG: Raymond Felton or Jason Kidd.

Two veterans running the offense at the PG position in either Felton or Kidd. J.R Smith can catch fire any given second at the 2G. Melo dominating opposing PF's as a pure scorer/great offensive player. Stoudemire feasting down low (2010 form) along with Steve Novak getting wet from 3. Now thinking about it, J.R Smith, Steve Novak and Carmelo Anthony all have the ability to get wet from beyond the arc.

We have defensive unit's in which can dominate the game. We have offensive unit's in which can take over games. This Knicks team of 2012 has the type of potential/ability to become very special.

What other types of units would you all like to see?

So when you state "Nobody saw this coming" I take offence. I seen our deepest team dating back to our 93-94 Knicks team. Seen our strongest team in 19-20 years. Seen the deepest team in the league and/or one of the deepest teams in Knicks franchise history. As I've already stated, all it took was some thought process combined with years of basketball experience. Grew up loving the sport dating back to childhood days. But yet, you've made me out to be some type of "homer" (time and time again here on this site) due to the fact that I had the ability to envision with words through a thought process while you yourself didn't. So once again, with all due respect, speak for yourself and not for others...

Nalod wrote:
What is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened.

The chemistry and trust is adding up to more than whats on paper.

Homers hoped for it and love team so they say "go team" and "believe".

Haters wanted proof after years of starphuch rhetoric.

Nobody saw this coming.

Its a wonderful thing to see.

Lebron had to go thru it (trusting) as did Jordan for them to get to the next level.

Melo is fulfilling the starphuch! Praise be upon him!

Great post. Fully agree.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Anji wrote:

DAT DAT DAT DAT DAT Real talk.
Kobe Check
SAS Check
Skip Check
Kidd Check
ESPN Check
Random Picture with Melo

I just watched that video right now...I cannot believe Jason Kidd said that about Melo!

I am outraged that Jason Kidd told Stephen A to spread the word that Melo's an "unselfish player who trusts his teammates"

Such a Dolan influenced move.

LMAO

It's amazing how much respect players, coaches and analyst have for Jason Kidd. Believe me when he says something about a player, it's gospel.

Great clip, about Melo and our team. These are facts and reality.

Tired of people talking about how selfish and unethical Melo is when you haven't had a personal encounter with the man.

Also, what a great team win last night. Proud of everyone! The ball moved all night, we were getting easy shots and we didn't let up or fold under pressure.

I remember, ppl saying there's noway we can build a good team with 2 max cats plus Tyson, we gave away depth. Well, look at our team now, we are one of the deepest teams in the league. What other team can lose their starting SG and PF and still win close to 80 percent of their games. This just goes to prove when you have a Star or 2 it's much easier to build around than just putting a group of average players together and hoping they develop.

We need our fearless leader for the long haul.

Homer = waits patiently, hopefully for the chip.
Hater = waits patiently, if not hopefully, for Melo to screw the pooch, so as to be able to paste all those pre-written, I told you so posts.

Hater = needs proof, statistics and more proof and statistics. And an ever increasing sample size.
Homer = needs to watch, see and hear games. Needs more Knicks paraphanalia. And maybe one more Shump jersey.

Homer = outlook is almost always: sunny, with a chance of clouds. Those two chips still look so shiny and bright.
Hater = outlook is always: rain is coming. And we ain't talking threes. Happiness will always end.

Hater = thought Melo's cornrows were stupid, just like Spree's cornrows.
Homer = tried to get cornrows installed. Cornrowed his children.

Homer = thinking about Reed coming out of the tunnel always brings tears to the eyes.
Hater = The "Trade" brings tears to the eyes.

jrodmc wrote:Hater = cold hearted realists who want to sit on the O'Brien before actually waving a banner, and saying once, softly, "yay!".
Homer = sociopathic team jock riders who actually bleed blue and orange, not just bleed for the sake of having something to complain about. Who get their Spree on every time a Knick dunks. Except for Chris Dudley. Man, we hated that guy.

Homer = waits patiently, hopefully for the chip.
Hater = waits patiently, if not hopefully, for Melo to screw the pooch, so as to be able to paste all those pre-written, I told you so posts.

Hater = needs proof, statistics and more proof and statistics. And an ever increasing sample size.
Homer = needs to watch, see and hear games. Needs more Knicks paraphanalia. And maybe one more Shump jersey.

Homer = outlook is almost always: sunny, with a chance of clouds. Those two chips still look so shiny and bright.
Hater = outlook is always: rain is coming. And we ain't talking threes. Happiness will always end.

Hater = thought Melo's cornrows were stupid, just like Spree's cornrows.
Homer = tried to get cornrows installed. Cornrowed his children.

Homer = thinking about Reed coming out of the tunnel always brings tears to the eyes.
Hater = The "Trade" brings tears to the eyes.

HAHA!

NYKMentality wrote:

Nalod wrote:
What is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened.

The chemistry and trust is adding up to more than whats on paper.

Homers hoped for it and love team so they say "go team" and "believe".

Haters wanted proof after years of starphuch rhetoric.

Nobody saw this coming.

Its a wonderful thing to see.

Lebron had to go thru it (trusting) as did Jordan for them to get to the next level.

Melo is fulfilling the starphuch! Praise be upon him!

Speak for yourself Nalod, not for us all. Nothing against you but you've continued to mention others as being and/or were "homers". I stated alot more than just "go team go" and/or "I believe". Stop believing your own thoughts and/or lies in regards to others. Just because you (yourself) couldn't envision a true contender during the offseason, doesn't have anything to do with myself and/or lots of other long time New York Knick fans.

I'm someone who personally seen (during the offseason) the deepest team dating back to the 1993-1994 Knicks team. I'm someone who made it known, heading into the season, that this was going to become our strongest team in 19-20 years. Specifically compared our 2012-2013 team to our throwback Knicks of 1993-1994. As of last night we surpassed the 93-94 team for the 3rd strongest start (after 22 games) in franchise history. I stated time and time again (during the offseason) how we were on the verge of featuring the deepest team in the league and/or one of the deepest teams in Knicks franchise history. All it took was some thought process combined with years of Knicks/NBA fan experience.

All you'd have to do is google A.) "Who's ready for our 2012-2013 New York Knicks"? B.) "Who wins; the 1993-1994 Knicks or the 2012-2013 Knicks"? and/or C.) "The different types of lineups that the Knicks can field"

and this is what you'll find...

NYK Mentality wrote:Who's ready for our 2012-2013 New York Knicks?

As a franchise, we've only won 4 Atlantic Division titles. We haven't won our Atlantic Division dating back to 1994. We've landed consecutive postseason appearances for the first time since 1999-2000, 2000-2001. With all that said, it's been a long time coming, but I truthfully believe we have our first (true) Eastern Conference Contender since the 90's. We could be on the verge of watching a very special N.Y Knicks team, one who I believe can win our Atlantic Division for not only the first time since 1994, but also the 5th time in franchise history.

We have all the pieces in place in order to feature a true contender.

Veterans at the PG position in Raymond Felton and Jason Kidd along with a very smart/experienced basketball player in Pablo Prigioni. A very athletic Iman Shumpert at the 2G position. A kid who plays his heart out on the defensive end of the court. A throwback type of 90's Knicks player. This kid made a name for himself, during only his rookie season last year, as an excellent perimeter defender. A phenom scorer in Carmelo Anthony at the SF position (one of the greatest scorers this franchise has ever seen). A franchise player who can dominate the wings. A player who has ice water running through his veins during clutch situations/closing moments. Melo has became the leader of our Knicks franchise. A very talented PF in Amar'e Stoudemire. Yes, he did have an off-season last year, but at the same time, he's been focused during the entire offseason. Just ask Hakeem Olajuwon. Stoudemire is ready to compete. If Stoudemire can return to PHX form, or better yet 2010 form in which he led our franchise to the playoffs for the first time since the 2003-2004 season? We then feature a PF in which can compete with any PF out there. How quickly some fans have (already) fogotten what Amar'e did for our franchise/team during the 2010-2011 season. Last but not least, in regards to our starting 5; A championship caliber Center in Tyson Chandler. The heart and sould of our Knicks team is what I now consider Tyson Chandler.

In regards to our bench? We now have something to look forward to. We truthfully have as deep of a bench as I've ever seen in regards to our Knicks franchise. We're featuring Jason Kidd as a veteran backup with postseason/championship experience along with a 3rd string PG in Pablo Prigioni who just averaged 6.1 assists per game during only 23.3 minutes per game during our preseason. Pablo, chacnes are, would start for Miami at the PG position. And he's only our 3rd stringer behind Felton and Kidd at the PG position. J.R Smith who can provide us with not only instant offense off the bench as a 6th man, but also lots of energy, effort, and hustle on the defensive side of the ball. A deadly assassin from beyond the arc in Steve Novak. Novak is a weapon coming off the bench. Both J.R and Novak can provide us with a strong scoring punch off the bench. Ronnie Brewer will provide us with strong perimeter defense at the 2G position. A player who can also move without the ball and slash on the offensive end of the court. I consider Brewer an actual role player. A very solid backup Center in Marcus Camby. Camby may be 38 years of age, but that still doesn't change the fact that he still averaged 23.0 minutes, 1.4 blocks and 9 boards per game last season. Can't ask for more quality out of your backup Center. Camby will be well rested behind Tyson, and ready to contribute moving forward. Kurt Thomas may be 40 years of age, but he's in very good physical shape/condition for a player who's been in this league for 17 years. Just an overall solid basketball player. He's solid depth overall. Stoudemire will start at the 4, Camby may play some 4 down low, we all know Melo can play bully-ball at the PF position; so Kurt Thomas should also be well rested and ready to compete off the bench. Who knows what we'll get out of Rasheed Wallace, but if he plays? I know we'll get his all. He'll play with toughness down low, without question. Rasheed has never backed down from no man. Not a bad 13th man off the bench. Last but not least, our wildcard in Chris Copeland. He's an unknown, yes, but he's an unknown with scoring ability at 6'8.

You won't find a deeper bench that New York's.

We're also featuring a defensive minded coach in Mike Woodson, who must be licking his chops in regards to our current team. Full of defensive minded players. Kidd will give it his all at the PG position on defense. Just a tough player. Both Shumpert and Brewer will cause defensive havoc on the perimeter. Melo is a very strong defensive player when focused (which he's been focued on defense as well since Woodson arrived). Veterans such as Kurt Thomas and Marcus Camby aren't going to back down on defense either. True defensive minded veterans right there. Tyson Chandler leads the way as our defensive anchor. The NBA's reigning defensive player of the year. We also have plenty of big bodies in which we can throw out there. BIG's in whom can board off the glass. Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby, Amar'e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler. This hasn't been the case in years past.

In closing? I see a very deep/complete team. Veterans at the PG position. Scorers in J.R Smith, Melo, Amar'e, Novak, Copeland and even Felton has a career average of 13.4 points per game. A defensive minded coach along with defensive minded players in Kidd, Shump, Brewer, Kurt Thomas, Camby and Chandler. BIG's who can board off the glass in Rasheed, Kurt Thomas, Camby, Stoudemire (career average of 8.8 boards per game) and Tyson Chandler. Melo is also a very strong rebounder amongst NBA SF's as well. Lots of role players coming off the bench. One of the deepest benches in the game today etc, etc.

Yes, a very long winded post, but it's because I believe we're on the verge of witnessing our strongest Knicks team since the mid 90's here in 2012-2013.

NYK Mentality wrote:Who wins; the 1993-1994 Knicks or the 2012-2013 Knicks?

Yes, I understand that we haven't seen these 2012-2013 Knicks take the court (at full strength) during a game that means something, but roster wise? This could be a very good game.

I'm an old school throwback 90's type of Knicks fan. Loved Ewing leading that 94 Knicks team, but at the same time, I believe this 2012 Knicks team could at least compete with those guys.

SCORING

- Starks (19) and Ewing (24.5) were the only two players who averaged anything over than 11.9 points per game. The Oak (Oakley) was our 3rd leading scorer at 11.8 points per game. Hubert Davis averaged 11.0 and Charles Smith averaged 10.4 per.

I believe we can get this type of scoring (Ewing/Starks combined) between Melo (25+) and Stoudemire (17-19). J.R Smith should also drop 12-15 per (career average of 12.5), but surrounded by this much talent? I look for J.R Smith to break out. A much better 3rd option when compared to Oakley. Scoring wise that is. Same goes for Felton. I can see him averaging close to 12-15 per as well, who's posted a career average of 13.4 (and even averaged 11.4 last season during an off year). Felton would without question, compete with Hubert Davis scoring wise. Hubert averaged 11.0. Then we also have Steve Novak, who should be good for 6-9 per.

There is no question about it, our Knicks offense of 2012-2013 is a much better (as a unit) scoring offense. Those 90 Knick teams really did struggle (at times) scoring the basketball. Great defensive team though.

REBOUNDING:

Ewing (11.2) and Oakley (11.8) combined for 23 boards per game. Mason averaged 5.8 boards per game. Those were without question, our three strongest BIG's off the glass. Charles Smith was decent. That N.Y trio of Ewing, Oakley and Mason combined for 28.8 boards per game. They were tough as nails down low, to say the least.

Tyson Chandler averaged 9.9 boards per game last season, and even Stoudemire has a career average of 8.8 boards per game. Combined, I believe both Chandler and Stoudemire can combine for 19 boards per game this up coming season. Then we have Marcus Camby, who averaged 9.0 boards per game last season. Because of Camby, I believe we'd be able to compete against that 94 Knicks team (on the boards). Beat them? I'm not sure, but Carmelo being able to board as a SF would contribute as well. A career average of 6.3 boards per game, in regards to Melo. Charles Smith only averaged 3.8 boards per game during the 94 season.

Anthony Bonner, Charles Smith, Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley and Patrick Ewing.
vs
Kurt Thomas, Carmelo Anthony, Marcus Camby, Amar'e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler.

It would've became a war down low. Kidd would also make Starks work for rebounds from the Guard position. No question.

Who wins the battle of the boards? Truthfully, first reaction would be 94 Knicks, but I'm not quite sure about that anymore. Not after the additions of Kidd, Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas and Marcus Camby.

3 POINT SHOOTING

Starks averaged 5.7 attempts per game. .335% from beyond the arc. Rivers averaged 2.7 attempts per game with an average of .365 and Davis averaged 2.4 attempts per game with a .402%.

Novak has Starks beat as our 3 point shooter, without question. Novak averaged 6.2 attempts per game last season with a .436%. J.R Smith averaged 5.5 3's per game last season with a .347% and Melo averaged 3.7 attempts per game with an average of .335%.

Starks, Rivers, Davis and Greg Anthony.
vs.
Novak, J.R Smith, Melo and Kidd.

I'm going with the Knicks of 2012 in regards to outside shooting ability.

ASSIST'S PER GAME:

Starks: 5.9
Rivers: 5.3
Anthony: 4.6
Harper: 4.4.

Stakrs was a 2G, but we featured 3 PG's who could dish the rock back in 94.

Felton averaged 6.5 assists on an off season last year.
Kidd averaged 5.5 assists per game last season.
Carmelo Anthony averaged 3.6 assists per game last season.
Pablo Prigioni is a question mark.

I believe Felton/Kidd can match Starks/Rivers but I believe the Knicks of 94 take it due to Anthony and Harper over Melo/Prigo.

IN CLOSING:

STARTERS:
C: Tyson Chandler vs Patrick Ewing.
PF: Amar'e Stoudemire vs Charles Oakley.
SF: Carmelo Anthony vs Charles Smith.
2G: Iman Shumpert vs John Starks.
PG: Raymond Felton vs Doc Rivers.

I give the 1994 Knicks the advantage due to Ewing/Oakley/Starks over Chandler/Amar'e and Shumpert. Although I take Felton/Melo over both Rivers/Smith at the PG/SF position(s).

BENCH:
C: Marcus Camby vs Herb Williams. 2012.
PF: Kurt Thomas vs Anthony Mason. 1994.

SF: Steve Novak vs Anthony Bonner. 2012.
G: J.R Smith (2G) vs Greg Anthony (PG). 2012.

PG: Jason Kidd vs Derek Harper. 1994.
PG: Pablo Prigioni vs Hubert Davis. Question Mark; but will give to 94 due to expericne.

2G: Ronnie Brewer vs Rolando Antonio Blackman. 2012.
13th: Rasheed Wallace vs Tony Campbell. 2012.

Overall? I think our bench of 2012 murders the bench of 1994.

With all that said? I have no clue who wins this game. All I know is, this is our deepest/most talented Knicks team since that 1993-1994 Knicks squad. We have some Knick fans talking about "the reset button" before 2012-2013 has even started. I'm not sure some Knick fans truthfully know how deep we currently are. First true contender since the mid 90's. (I never really considered those Sprewell/Houston led Knick teams as true NBA Championship contenders). I finally believe we have a contender.

NYK Mentality wrote:The different types of lineups that the Knicks can field.

Since I've always been a fan of hard nosed defense, I'll start this thread off with a defensive mentality. I'm trying to put together our best overall defensive unit.

C: Tyson Chandler.
PF: Marcus Camby.
SF: Carmelo Anthony.
2G: Ronnie Brewer.
PG: Iman Shumpert.

I believe, that's the best defensive unit we could field, and good luck scoring on this N.Y defense. Picture this, the Knicks are up by 8 points with 6 minutes to go. It's time to close out the game with defense. Shumpert with great on ball defense. Causing havoc, making it difficult for opposing PG's to bring the ball up. Then we have both Brewer and Melo defending the perimeter/wings. Locking down. Along with both Tyson Chandler and Marcus Camby protecting the paint, contesting shots and boarding strong off the glass. Coach Woodson must be licking his chops right about now...

It's been a while, but defense has finally arrived/returned to New York.

Now, what about an all offensive unit? It's fun just thinking about...

C: Amar'e Stoudemire.
PF: Carmelo Anthony.
SF: Steve Novak.
2G: J.R Smith.
PG: Raymond Felton or Jason Kidd.

Two veterans running the offense at the PG position in either Felton or Kidd. J.R Smith can catch fire any given second at the 2G. Melo dominating opposing PF's as a pure scorer/great offensive player. Stoudemire feasting down low (2010 form) along with Steve Novak getting wet from 3. Now thinking about it, J.R Smith, Steve Novak and Carmelo Anthony all have the ability to get wet from beyond the arc.

We have defensive unit's in which can dominate the game. We have offensive unit's in which can take over games. This Knicks team of 2012 has the type of potential/ability to become very special.

What other types of units would you all like to see?

So when you state "Nobody saw this coming" I take offence. I seen our deepest team dating back to our 93-94 Knicks team. Seen our strongest team in 19-20 years. Seen the deepest team in the league and/or one of the deepest teams in Knicks franchise history. As I've already stated, all it took was some thought process combined with years of basketball experience. Grew up loving the sport dating back to childhood days. But yet, you've made me out to be some type of "homer" (time and time again here on this site) due to the fact that I had the ability to envision with words through a thought process while you yourself didn't. So once again, with all due respect, speak for yourself and not for others...

REALLY DUDE. Do you think people keep your posting in their "favorites" folder so they can give you credit that ain't due. Pound your chest on your own time instead of attacking a guys who isn't a homer but is willing to accept reality unlike some.

RAY for MVP?

BA-LEE-DAT he might be in the Scussin..... at least as an AHHH-STAH!

3G4G wrote:

RAY for MVP?

BA-LEE-DAT he might be in the Scussin..... at least as an AHHH-STAH!

Lol you make me chuckle.

David West up next for MVP?

DurzoBlint wrote:REALLY DUDE. Do you think people keep your posting in their "favorites" folder so they can give you credit that ain't due. Pound your chest on your own time instead of attacking a guys who isn't a homer but is willing to accept reality unlike some.

No one is "attacking" anyone but I'm sorry, I'm not going to allow someone to make remarks such as "what is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened" and/or "Nobody saw this coming". Because I did. Lots of us long-time Knick fans did as well. Anyone with any type of basketball knowledge and/or insight understood (at the time) that our current Knicks team were on the verge of becoming a serious contender heading into the season. It was written in stone and wasn't hard to see.

During the offseason I seen our strongest team dating back to our Knicks of 1993-1994. Envisioned our strongest Knicks team in over 19-20 years. Like I stated earlier, all it took were years of Knicks fan experience combined with a thought process. Even went as far as explaining exactly why during a thread I created "Knicks of 2012-2013 vs Knicks of 1993-1994".

During the entire offseason, I talked about how we were on the verge of featuring (by far) the deepest team in the NBA and maybe even in franchise history. Our overall depth from top to bottom was (and is) unheard of, the ability our players had (and have) on the basketball court is something special, veteran leadership galore etc, etc our potential goes through the roof and I'm still not sure how fans and posters such as Nalod (for example) didn't see this coming heading into the season. I predicted our first Atlantic Division title dating back to our 1993-1994 season not because I'm some type of "homer" but because I've been around the game of basketball and/or a fan of these Knicks for well over 20 years now. I know great potential when I see it. And yes, I seen this during the offseason.

So yeah, I don't need a poster such as Nalod stating "what is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened" and/or "Nobody saw this coming". He can speak for himself. Hindsight is always 20/20 but just because he never had the (offseason) ability to envision one of our (potentially) greatest Knick teams of all-time... Doesn't mean that everyone else shared his doom and gloom and/or "wait and see" approach. He could've simply stated that what's happening now is something that he himself never had any knowledge about (before it happened) and/or he himself never seen this coming. Don't speak for us all. Speak for yourself.

Because during the offseason after we signed Steve Novak long term, extended J.R Smith for another year, while landing the likes of a lockdown defender in Ronnie Brewer, a veteran and future HOF leader in Jason Kidd, an overseas great in Pablo Prigioni, true veteran BIG's looking to play tough down low in Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace and Marcus Camby to go along with our core group of players in Iman Shumpert, Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler? It;s hard to believe how anyone could've gone out of their way to call a fellow Knicks fan "a homer".