Knicks · The game is 90% Mental (page 4)
JrZyHuStLa wrote:Who really cares. The only thing that matters is how the Knicks do. For 12 years we have sucked. This year we got off to a great start however we are starting to do what we always seem to do after nice winning streaksChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
There's not much Fishmike can say to his defense of D'antoni, so he tries to incorporate his excuses with Melo criticism.
Carmelo Anthony is the same player he was in Denver, but with only more help now. He's still the elite scorer and above average rebounder for his position.
Mike D'antoni isn't the coach we thought he was. Because he's shown that he can only come up short on a title with a sure fire hall of fame point guard.
Are you happy now?
JrZyHuStLa wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
There's not much Fishmike can say to his defense of D'antoni, so he tries to incorporate his excuses with Melo criticism.
Carmelo Anthony is the same player he was in Denver, but with only more help now. He's still the elite scorer and above average rebounder for his position.
Mike D'antoni isn't the coach we thought he was. Because he's shown that he can only come up short on a title with a sure fire hall of fame point guard.
Are you happy now?
Yea, now that D'Antoni aired his dirty laundry, not much any MDA supporter can say.
tkf wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:This episode in they said it!Steve Nash looking back at his Suns teams failures:
His voice gets a little deeper as he runs through the details. There's pain there."I do remember those things," Nash says. "But I don't look back on them. That's life. You move on. We never got to the Finals, we never were a championship team.
Steve Nash on his teams never being good at all defensively:
"We also never played with a defensive center. We were a flawed team that got pretty dang close to our potential and maybe it was never quite good enough."He looks up at me to make sure that last part sinks in. It's not a line. It's his truth.
Mike D'Antoni admitting his whole time in New York was a mistake:
Enough time has passed now that D'Antoni can admit where he went wrong. It's not one of those plays he regrets, it's a decision.His decision to leave.
"I shouldn't have gone to New York," he says, looking down at the sideline in Memphis, pacing on that unstable right leg.
"I should have stuck in there and battled. You don't get to coach somebody like him [Nash] too many times. It's pretty sacred and you need to take care of it. I didn't."
D'Antoni has never told Nash this.
Well, hopefully this can dispel any myths about the Suns teams being anywhere close to a decent defensive team. No defense, no rings!And D'Antoni openly admitting he never should've left for New York, that his whole time here was a mistake...I don't know how any Knicks fan can defend that. Basically telling New York fans "Sorry bitches, came here for the money! Nothing more, nothing less".
Remember, don't kill the messenger. They said it!
this is just sad chuck..
first of all nash was saying they didn't have a defensive center.. where does it say he said they were not good at all defensively.. where?
And dantoni said he should have never left nash, that coming to Ny was a mistake considering what he left.... the suns changed management, he didn't mesh with steve kerr, he left...
this is very sad how you took these quotes and not only did you try to misrepresent them, but you misquoted when you clearly have the actually post right there... I mean, who are you trying to fool here?
dantoni did make a huge mistake going to NY but not because he left nash behind but because he was not informed about what Jimmy Dolan is. We NY fans know it first hand, the rest of the world including MDA must experience it to get an idea. And he sure get the idea...
Mikes ego is big enough to blind him into thinking he can control his own destiny. Probably now he knows better.. however some people never change.
ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.
Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.
Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
tkf wrote:playa2 wrote:I will go on record by saying this, who ever is healthy on the Knicks roster regardless of AGE( SHEED-KIDD-THOMAS-CAMBY) will adapt to the urgency of the games in the playoffs. The players the knicks traded away for Melo from Mozzy to Galanari wasn't mentally strong to play to the level we need here under the NY pressure cooker.
and you know this... because??
All those guys are playoffs and NBA Finals tested and won't be mentally weak, when that time rolls around. Those guys on Denver haven't sniffed past the 1st rd.
ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
No human would consider those teammates even close to MVP caliber. Marbury comparable to MVP level players? You're getting desperate.
ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
Marbury left early to New Jersey
Googs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe
Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability
Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
No human would consider those teammates even close to MVP caliber. Marbury comparable to MVP level players? You're getting desperate.
Not really desperate, just stating facts. Chauncey Billups? I mean he was a Finals MVP with Detroit, but there was no way he was going to beat out Lebron that year for MVP.
3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
Marbury left early to New JerseyGoogs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe
Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability
Pretty comparable. Alot of 50 win seasons for KG in Minny. Average guys around him and the occasional old all star: Terrell Brandon, Chauncey Billups, Tom Gugliotta, Latrell Sprewell, Sam Cassell
Similiar for Melo: Kenyon Martin, Marcus Camby, Chauncey Billups, Allen Iverson
No difference really in caliber.
ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
No human would consider those teammates even close to MVP caliber. Marbury comparable to MVP level players? You're getting desperate.Not really desperate, just stating facts. Chauncey Billups? I mean he was a Finals MVP with Detroit, but there was no way he was going to beat out Lebron that year for MVP.
So it's a fact that Marbury was an MVP-level PG?!
3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
Marbury left early to New JerseyGoogs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe
Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability
not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....
one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
No human would consider those teammates even close to MVP caliber. Marbury comparable to MVP level players? You're getting desperate.Not really desperate, just stating facts. Chauncey Billups? I mean he was a Finals MVP with Detroit, but there was no way he was going to beat out Lebron that year for MVP.
So it's a fact that Marbury was an MVP-level PG?!
Marbury was a better player overall than Chauncey Billups. Billups was on more winning teams. Billups was never a true MVP candidate. The year he was in the ballot, he received ZERO 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place votes.
tkf wrote:3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
Marbury left early to New JerseyGoogs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe
Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability
not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.
ChuckBuck wrote:tkf wrote:3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
Marbury left early to New JerseyGoogs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe
Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability
not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.
Scoring efficiency: Small Kobe advantage
Assist:turnover ratio: Huge advantage Kobe
Rebounding: even or small advantage for Kobe (when position-adjusted)
Steals: advantage Kobe
Blocks: even
When you combine all these small to medium sized advantages for Kobe, you end up with a big overall advantage for him. Hence, his win shares and wins produced are much better.
ChuckBuck wrote:tkf wrote:3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
Marbury left early to New JerseyGoogs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe
Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability
not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.
besides MANY awards, and Many rings, their numbers are very similar... but then again they are not.. when we take kobe's best seasons and carmelo's best, it is not even close.... plus kobe's first two years in the league when he came off the bench pretty much skews his numbers a bit.. it is not as close as you think.. and another thing.. some of those awards or acknowledgments like all NBA defensive first team... those tell a story as well.. that kobe was a two way player.. carmelo wasn't...
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path.
again.. not really.
it is not a legit comparison...
I would like to ask you this question and several others.. Before carmelo came to the knicks, did any of you ever think he was on the same level as kobe, lebron, KG, etc? honestly?
Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:tkf wrote:3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
Marbury left early to New JerseyGoogs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe
Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability
not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.
Scoring efficiency: Small Kobe advantage
Assist:turnover ratio: Huge advantage Kobe
Rebounding: even or small advantage for Kobe (when position-adjusted)
Steals: advantage Kobe
Blocks: evenWhen you combine all these small to medium sized advantages for Kobe, you end up with a big overall advantage for him. Hence, his win shares and wins produced are much better.
bonn, I really wonder how many people felt that carmelo was on these guys level, before he came to the knicks.....
Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:tkf wrote:3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
Marbury left early to New JerseyGoogs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe
Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability
not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.
Scoring efficiency: Small Kobe advantage
Assist:turnover ratio: Huge advantage Kobe
Rebounding: even or small advantage for Kobe (when position-adjusted)
Steals: advantage Kobe
Blocks: evenWhen you combine all these small to medium sized advantages for Kobe, you end up with a big overall advantage for him. Hence, his win shares and wins produced are much better.
Kobe has a slight edge overall due to his defense and the benefit of playing with dominant big men.
tkf wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:tkf wrote:3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:fishmike wrote:fishmike wrote:and jrzy... when I say something silly like in 9 years and 8 first round exits Melo has had PLENTY of chances also no? Why in gods name would this guy deserve to have a team built around him? How is my logic with MElo different than yours with MDA? Please do answer....still waiting... just curiousDidn't the great Kevin Garnett get bounced out of the first round 7 years in a row before getting help?
He had terrible teams, though. Melo had two separate teammates receiving MVP consideration.Tom Gugliotta and Stephon Marbury weren't that bad.
Later Chauncey Billups and Wally Sczyberiak. Not much different than what Melo had to go through.
Kevin Garnett only advanced when he had Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell join him. And KG is an all time great...go figure.
Marbury left early to New JerseyGoogs injured his knees
Death of Malik Sealy
Minnesota was stripped of 1rst rounders for 5yrs straight I believe
Not really comparable to Melo as Denver had measure of stability
not sure why people keep bringing up kobe, now Garnett.. jeez, these are not good comparisons to help an argument.. Does Garnett have a ring? Yes, was Garnett a MVP? yes, was he one of the top defensive players in the league for years.. yes.. .Ok... not sure why his name comes up... Fans feel melo never had help.. well hey, it is an old excuse, and no matter how many facts you bring up, they will just avoid the facts and bring up another player greater than him as comparison.. kind of an odd strategy to defend and argument....one poster in this thread said this is a bottom line business... KG has a ring.. bottom line.. carmelo doesn't........ bottom line..
It's a legit comparison.
Besides awards, Kobe's career numbers and Melo's are very similiar. 25 pts/gm on 45% FG.
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path. KG eliminated in 7 years straight in the 1st round, before he got help.
Pretty simple comparison.
besides MANY awards, and Many rings, their numbers are very similar... but then again they are not.. when we take kobe's best seasons and carmelo's best, it is not even close.... plus kobe's first two years in the league when he came off the bench pretty much skews his numbers a bit.. it is not as close as you think.. and another thing.. some of those awards or acknowledgments like all NBA defensive first team... those tell a story as well.. that kobe was a two way player.. carmelo wasn't...
Career wise, KG and Melo shared the same career path.again.. not really.
it is not a legit comparison...
I would like to ask you this question and several others.. Before carmelo came to the knicks, did any of you ever think he was on the same level as kobe, lebron, KG, etc? honestly?
Kobe's best years are better than Melo's yes. I acknowledge Kobe's defensive abilities.
When they both enter the Hall of Fame, their career numbers will look very similiar though.
As for KG, did he not get bounced in 7 straight years in the 1st round as the best player on his team?
Or did I just make that up?
