Knicks · Does Copeland make Novack expendable? (page 10)

BRIGGS wrote:Hopefully they can move Copeland to starting SF soon.

We already have poor defensive starts, and you're actually suggesting starting another one?

knickscity wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Hopefully they can move Copeland to starting SF soon.

We already have poor defensive starts, and you're actually suggesting starting another one?

The thing is right now there's no one on the bench we could make a starter who would improve the defense but we do have guys who can improve the offense without hurting the defense. I'm not convinced of Copeland's abilities yet but I doubt he could be worse than Brewer right now.

VCoug wrote:

knickscity wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Hopefully they can move Copeland to starting SF soon.

We already have poor defensive starts, and you're actually suggesting starting another one?

The thing is right now there's no one on the bench we could make a starter who would improve the defense but we do have guys who can improve the offense without hurting the defense. I'm not convinced of Copeland's abilities yet but I doubt he could be worse than Brewer right now.

JR would help both aspects and Kidd could be a defender against second units.

Copeland is not a starter.

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:

knickscity wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Hopefully they can move Copeland to starting SF soon.

We already have poor defensive starts, and you're actually suggesting starting another one?

The thing is right now there's no one on the bench we could make a starter who would improve the defense but we do have guys who can improve the offense without hurting the defense. I'm not convinced of Copeland's abilities yet but I doubt he could be worse than Brewer right now.

JR would help both aspects and Kidd could be a defender against second units.

Copeland is not a starter.

I don't think we can afford to make JR a starter, right now our whole bench is basically built around him especially offensively.

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:

knickscity wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Cope
Hopefully they can move Copeland to starting SF soon.

We already have poor defensive starts, and you're actually suggesting starting another one?

The thing is right now there's no one on the bench we could make a starter who would improve the defense but we do have guys who can improve the offense without hurting the defense. I'm not convinced of Copeland's abilities yet but I doubt he could be worse than Brewer right now.

JR would help both aspects and Kidd could be a defender against second units.

Copeland is not a starter.

and comes in off the bench as the 6th man to provide an offensive spark consistently? Brewer? Kidd? Amare is going to start and even if he came off the bench and you inserted JR into the starting lineup Amare can't create like JR.

Tyson
Cope..eventually Amare
Melo
Kidd..eventually Shump
Felton

Closers:
Tyson
Amare
Melo
Shump
Kidd

Bring on the playoffs!!

Im on bored for playing Cope more but I expect TO's, defensive breakdowns and missed rebounds but with that said, we have a deep bench for a reason. Cope struggles take him out early. No different than what Woodson is doing with Brewer. One thing is for sure Cope gives the Knicks another offensive weapon which the starting 5 lack right now. Whereas he will never see minutes off the bench

gunsnewing wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:

knickscity wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Cope
Hopefully they can move Copeland to starting SF soon.

We already have poor defensive starts, and you're actually suggesting starting another one?

The thing is right now there's no one on the bench we could make a starter who would improve the defense but we do have guys who can improve the offense without hurting the defense. I'm not convinced of Copeland's abilities yet but I doubt he could be worse than Brewer right now.

JR would help both aspects and Kidd could be a defender against second units.

Copeland is not a starter.

and comes in off the bench as the 6th man to provide an offensive spark consistently? Brewer? Kidd? Amare is going to start and even if he came off the bench and you inserted JR into the starting lineup Amare can't create like JR.

Tyson
Cope..eventually Amare
Melo
Kidd..eventually Shump
Felton

Closers:
Tyson
Amare
Melo
Shump
Kidd

Bring on the playoffs!!

Amare would have Pablo and Kidd to carry the creating for him off the bench.

knickscity wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:

knickscity wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Cope
Hopefully they can move Copeland to starting SF soon.

We already have poor defensive starts, and you're actually suggesting starting another one?

The thing is right now there's no one on the bench we could make a starter who would improve the defense but we do have guys who can improve the offense without hurting the defense. I'm not convinced of Copeland's abilities yet but I doubt he could be worse than Brewer right now.

JR would help both aspects and Kidd could be a defender against second units.

Copeland is not a starter.

and comes in off the bench as the 6th man to provide an offensive spark consistently? Brewer? Kidd? Amare is going to start and even if he came off the bench and you inserted JR into the starting lineup Amare can't create like JR.

Tyson
Cope..eventually Amare
Melo
Kidd..eventually Shump
Felton

Closers:
Tyson
Amare
Melo
Shump
Kidd

Bring on the playoffs!!

Amare would have Pablo and Kidd to carry the creating for him off the bench.

Yep, plus he would play center most of the time. A win-win for the knicks and stat.

I think JR should start and Copeland should play the Four off the bench with Sheed.

Given the Knicks struggles offensively and heavily dependent on Melo for offense..I doubt Amare will spend much time on the bench...If he is healthy..he will start..

holfresh wrote:Given the Knicks struggles offensively and heavily dependent on Melo for offense..I doubt Amare will spend much time on the bench...If he is healthy..he will start..

Eventually but I like the route Dallas is taking with Dirk and Minny is taking with Rubio. I thinks its better than having your guy come off of injury and play 41 minutes . Like Nash did. I get Nash's injury was not as bad but dang.

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Given the Knicks struggles offensively and heavily dependent on Melo for offense..I doubt Amare will spend much time on the bench...If he is healthy..he will start..

Eventually but I like the route Dallas is taking with Dirk and Minny is taking with Rubio. I thinks its better than having your guy come off of injury and play 41 minutes . Like Nash did. I get Nash's injury was not as bad but dang.

Sure agreed, Woody always says it's about the long haul...It's the reason why I would like to see him do a better job monitoring the older vet's minutes...

blkexec wrote:OK...I'm lost.

Not sure I understand how Copeland impacts Novak?

Whats wrong with having both?

They both play multiple positions, and are solid roll players with no bagage or chemisty issues.

Copeland can play SF, PF....Novak can play SF, PF

Why talk about getting rid of these guys, when you need to ADD more guys like them. Good character guys that understands their role, and happy with whatever role they get. Versus players like Smith, who will continue to complain about being the 6th man, and wants to be a starter. Smith who still have a partying / decipline problem, and he's a hot head. (If anything, you trade Smith the hot head for another good character gunner, thats happy to be a 6 man off the bench for a championship team).

It's hard to talk about anybody being expendable, when you have the best record in the east. Compared to the terrible decade of basketball us Knick fans had to deal with.

This is a great problem to have.....Enjoy it while you can.

To put it simple, you play the hot hand.....This just gives Copeland more minutes now. Novak is still a specialist, he's not going anywhere. Copeland is a Melo-lite.....I believe he's a keeper as well. Novak is playing better defense too, so his game is expanding as we speak.

I'm a huge Copeland fan...I'm a huge Novak fan. I would hate to see any of these guys go. Smith on the other hand, I would trade if it brings back good value. But he's been playing under control this season, and filled in nice when Melo is hurt. But Smith is too jump shot happy to carry a team. Copeland is one of the few players on the team that can play inside and out.

Keep the good character guys, and trade away the selfish, me first guys. The good thing about this team? We have vets like Kidd to help shape these selfish players into real team players!

ditto

Its not Novaks mins that he has to get. Their are/will be plenty of mins at the back-up PF spot that Cope can get in place of Kurt Thomas and even Wallace if he cant get back healthy. Kurt and Wallace will be gone next year and I'm sure Cope (if we resign him) will get those mins....

If we don't get Copeland getting meaningful minutes now he will be a nervous wreck come the latter part of the season /playoffs.

No guarantee our veteran bigs are going to be healthy at the end of the year.

Copeland is 29 yrs old. He is a vet. He just needs to stay ready when his name is called.

knickscity wrote:

Anji wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Anji wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Anji wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:LOL, i only said that because of that hijacking thread. I don't care about tangent Novack talk, but how is Felton a part of the convo??!!

(Guns going off the deep end Linsanity I know.)

He got into the conversation when I pointed out that his bad games hurt the team at least as much as Novak's do.

The thing is, Novak's production is replaceable on this very roster...We don't have to look far and wide...Dude is listed at 6' 10" and grabbing 2 boards per 25 mins...Can't shoot over Nate Robinson...

That's what I was talking about. Could the team be stronger if we traded Novack and gave Copeland 15 minutes a night?

I'm pretty sure he'll give us what Novack produces. Plus we could add a better fitting role player.

I think you're selling Novak very short.

His value isn't his points, it's the potential of those points.

Teams aren't gameplanning for Copeland, Novak is in their scouting report.

There's a difference between game planning and scouting reports. Teams aren't revolving there team defense around stopping Novack. They are telling a couple guys don't help off Novack and stopping him.

I'm pretty sure we can get more out of Copeland, because you guard him with Nate Robinson. Actual points are worth more then potential points.

Scouting reports are league wide. If teams are actually telling their players not to help off Novack, that's importance.

I think Copeland produces because their is zero pressure when he is the game, but he is a zero sum player.

He does nothing on the other end.

I agree to disagree, Copeland was big in the Nets win and Crash didn't abuse him off the dribble or on cuts.

If Copeland gives nothing on the other end what does Novack give??? Does he Take???

I don't see the great help it is that teams don't leave Novack, when he can't score and the team doesn't score. Give me that other guy who score with a hand in his face.

Novak at the moment at least tries on defense, I don't even think Copeland has a clue on that end.

Who is scoring with a hand in their face? that sounds like an idiot, not a smart player.

Guys that know how score, just saying........I truly believe Copeland gives the knicks more.

NOvack 27 minutes 3pts 1reb 1ast
Copeland 29 minutes 14pts 2rebs 2blks

Definition of expendable imo.

Anji wrote:NOvack 27 minutes 3pts 1reb 1ast
Copeland 29 minutes 14pts 2rebs 2blks

Definition of expendable imo.

except that we are paying him $12mil

gunsnewing wrote:

Anji wrote:NOvack 27 minutes 3pts 1reb 1ast
Copeland 29 minutes 14pts 2rebs 2blks

Definition of expendable imo.

except that we are paying him $12mil

Shouldn't matter, the best players should play.

Woodson had this quote that I cant remember exactly. Last season when he took over, there was a lot of speculation about whether or not he'd start Baron over Lin and he said something like "Red taught me rookies were to sit and listen". Make of it what you will but I think it takes a really exceptional rookie for Woody to make him a permanent part of the rotation (like Shump cause of his defense).

We can't play both these guys when everybody is back, I think the Knicks should trade Novack for a good Back up point guard.

Copeland is better than Novack.

He needs minutes no matter what.