Knicks · On the coach from here on in. (page 2)
There is only experience to be gained by working together in game situations.
There are no quick fixes because this is not baseball cards and basketball is a team sport with a live opponent who is also working to get better.
There are no quick fixes.
I wonder if playing Melo at the 4 and Kidd at the SG were ever BIG parts of Woodson's game plan/philosophy or if Amare's injury make everything fall in place as he got the credit
These were things I have been saying since Dantoni was here, prior to Jeremy Lin's run....
Woodson has the respect of the players, he just need's some guidance
He keep's saying we need to play better DEFENSE but he puts trash on the court and expects them to play solid D
I guess it is better than hearing "Come on, Let's go, Come on, Let's Go"
Guidance?
What higher power is Mike Woodson channeling other than Red Holzman and Bobby Knight?
RonRon - you are completely overlooking that our roster has players who are not familiar with each other in game conditions.
This current mix of Knicks will require at least a month of learning together before they can groove together.
misterearl wrote:Woodson has the respect of the players, he just need's some guidanceGuidance?
What higher power is Mike Woodson channeling other than Red Holzman and Bobby Knight?
RonRon - you are completely overlooking that our roster has players who are not familiar with each other in game conditions.
This current mix of Knicks will require at least a month of learning together before they can groove together.
Of course its on the coach. And Coach Woodson got the same praise after our nice start. Teams have *adjusted* to us and it is showing in the first Q and W-L. Now its *on the coach* to adjust to other teams adjustments--no? What exaxctly is wrong with inserting JR Smith(who has earned it) and at SG taking pressure off of Kidd and Camby into PF(taking pressure off of Tyson) and helping our overall D R and energy to start games? Does it seem like the logical adjustment? Camby is one of the best rebounders per minutes in the last 10 years and JR has advanced his play into near all star level. He deserves to start.
misterearl wrote:Woodson has the respect of the players, he just need's some guidanceGuidance?
What higher power is Mike Woodson channeling other than Red Holzman and Bobby Knight?
RonRon - you are completely overlooking that our roster has players who are not familiar with each other in game conditions.
This current mix of Knicks will require at least a month of learning together before they can groove together.
We went from having a great start and calling ourselves contenders and "built to beat the HEAT" to coming out flat and down on how many consecutive games?
The players and the coach both have should be held accountable
We have been looking like crap, with JR Smith and Melo heaving 3pt shot's to give us a shot to stay in the game at times....
There is no penetration, no ball movement, and Melo is unable to post up playing the 3 without the shooters to space him out.
You cannot tell me this is how you want our offense to be ran?
Novak and Copeland get inserted together at the SF/PF, when we are down and we have the coach talking about DEFENSE
Oh, I don't even want to get started with Amare, if that was JR Smith getting beat like that, JR would got get the stare of death and hear an earful
how much does Camby play?
We had how many 3 days off to prepare for yesterday's game...
I am not saying injuries are not part of it it
but
when Melo is our fastest player on the starting lineup
and
there is not much a difference in speed from 2nd to 5th
We are slow as turtles, have 2 shooters on the floor,
Kidd
Brewer
Melo
Kurt Thomas
Chandler
one of our most efficient shooters on our roster has to start creating shot's for other's without the ability to penetrate
During these 3 days, he did not have a game plan, prepare for his injuries, and use his time to readjust and it showed
We lose games, it happens, I understand, but we are playing like complete trash, and he does not make changes
In the end, he deserves a lot of the blame.
In the end it really is about the players making up their minds that they're going to give max effort for 48 minutes a game. A coach can only do so much when it comes to effort! It's hard to whip a team for 82 games and after some time they have to be SELF motivated rather than rely on a coach gettin in their face. Now when it comes to strategy and X's and O's that's where I have a problem with Woody. The strategy and line ups is where he has the most impact. He's gonna need time to figure out some changes since things are changing due to injury and guys coming back. The dynamics of the team will change from what we did to start the year. Woody has to prove he can get it done. For all the crap people say about MDA, he actually got his team to the WCF's and it is yet to be seen if Woody can do the same. So I agree that it's on the coach to get it done. He's got a better team than MDA ever had and no one wanted to give MDA any excuses so...
As for STAT talking about never being taught D he's a liar. There's no way in hell he's been in the league this long with so many coaches and they never broke it down just what he's supposed to be doing on D. NO WAY!!! It's not even the 1st time that he's been challenged by his coach for his lousy D. MDA had it out with him years ago over his lack of D and not doing what he's been told.
Stoudemire and D'Antoni have had their differences, both privately and publicly. Stoudemire was the lone Suns player to show no disappointment about D'Antoni's departure from Phoenix in 2008; he had bristled at D'Antoni's criticism of his defensive deficiencies, mainly on help defense, which led to troublesome breakdowns. Stoudemire often deflected the blame back on D'Antoni for not putting enough time into coaching defense, which touches a nerve for D'Antoni.http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball...
misterearl wrote:RonRon - there are no quick fixes.There is only experience to be gained by working together in game situations.
There are no quick fixes because this is not baseball cards and basketball is a team sport with a live opponent who is also working to get better.
There are no quick fixes.
Ego's limit what coaches can do with the players he has, Popovich is one of the few guys who's coaching today where he treats everybody the same because his best players goes along with it.
The problem is the defense. Starting Kurt and Brewer pretty much assures that the Knicks will be killed by virtually every team that is athletic in the 1st quarter. Right now you have no choice but to start Brewer. Can't start JR or Prigs. Problem is solved when Felton and Shump return. Must start Camby until Amare is ready in a week or so. Kurt can't get 2cm off the ground to rebound or block shots. Tyson admitted last night he didn't box out. Seem to blame it on his bum ankle. We'll see
fishmike wrote:Briggs.. I hear you, but when does that happen? Sometimes, but more often then not these guys ride their views and horses right out of town.And yellowboy... Woody's Knicks this year are #20 of 30 in defensive rating. MDA's last full season Knicks were #22. Sorry dude, you may "feel" like Woody's teams are so much better defensively, but they really arent.
Sometimes its the players. Keep watching, you will see
So what players get the blame? Certainly not Melo. Amare hasn't played. That leaves us with the backcourt not keeping guys in front of them and Tyson to blame. Or is it Woodson's defensive rotation system which constantly has Tyson guarding the PG? My guess it is the players who start the game. Guarantee you Woodson shakes up the starting 5 tomorrow
gunsnewing wrote:There is absolutely no need to start JR. Our offense is fine. Top 5 in the league. The problem is Knicks actually miss Felton breaking down the D and getting them consistently open looks. Felton wasn't shooting as much early in the year. The injuries to Melo and Kidd definitely hurt Felton's effectiveness. Knicks have to hope Kidd and Prigs can piece hold down the fort for another month. Having Amare back helps them get easy baskets.The problem is the defense. Starting Kurt and Brewer pretty much assures that the Knicks will be killed by virtually every team that is athletic in the 1st quarter. Right now you have no choice but to start Brewer. Can't start JR or Prigs. Problem is solved when Felton and Shump return. Must start Camby until Amare is ready in a week or so. Kurt can't get 2cm off the ground to rebound or block shots. Tyson admitted last night he didn't box out. Seem to blame it on his bum ankle. We'll see
JR Smith actually improves the Knicks defensive numbers.
gunsnewing wrote:Start JR and he becomes the playmaker not Kidd. I don't think we want that as Knicks fans.
I actually think that it might help Smith's shot selection. By the time SMith comes in Kidd is tired and gives the ball to Smith. If Kidd has his energy to start it pushes Smith off the ball where he is a better shooter career wise as a catch and shoot guy or off screens. He definitely helps with rebounding. It also gives Kidd the ability to guard 2s.
My problem with Starting Smith is that Prigs will be helpless without a secondary ball handler with him unless WHite plays. WHite has shown the ability to drive and pass but he those are just flashes in between fouls and spotty play.
Felton? Sheed?
Was it a Brewer who was actually staying on the floor because he could hit an open jumper?
I don't see how the same coach credited for coaxing a great defensive effort to start the season is now not getting it done.
It has to be the personnel no?
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:What exactly is the difference between the team that started out the year defending so well and the one that allowed a layup line to Portland last night?Felton? Sheed?
Was it a Brewer who was actually staying on the floor because he could hit an open jumper?
I don't see how the same coach credited for coaxing a great defensive effort to start the season is now not getting it done.
It has to be the personnel no?
For one thing the defense was always a bit overrated this year. The teams hot start offensively masked the truth about the D and rebounding. We played better D earlier, but not perfect D. This team is not in the top half of the league in terms of D and that's been going on for a while now, just no one really talked about it since the offense was clicking and the team was winning. There has always been a bit too much made about Woody's influence on the teams D. The effort starts with the players and ends with the players. When Melo wasn't giving effort on D it was noticeable. No one coaxed him into defending harder, he just did. Same goes with Tyson. He hasn't been defending as hard as he did last year and it's obvious the teams overall effort level is down.
The schedule, Age and injury all play a part in the Knicks not being able to defend at an elite level of late. We really need a healthy and active Brewer and Felton. Brewer fell off a long time ago and Felton was destined to cool off too. Not to mention that it was almost expected that Felton would lose a bit of steam over the course of a full season, much like he did last time he was here. He's not Westbrook, a guy built to go hard like that. Gotta hope Shump can give this team a boost and that Brewer can get his 2nd wind or whatever he needs to get his energy level back. Then when Felton comes back we should be in good shape on the perimeter again.
nixluva wrote:GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:What exactly is the difference between the team that started out the year defending so well and the one that allowed a layup line to Portland last night?Felton? Sheed?
Was it a Brewer who was actually staying on the floor because he could hit an open jumper?
I don't see how the same coach credited for coaxing a great defensive effort to start the season is now not getting it done.
It has to be the personnel no?For one thing the defense was always a bit overrated this year. The teams hot start offensively masked the truth about the D and rebounding. We played better D earlier, but not perfect D. This team is not in the top half of the league in terms of D and that's been going on for a while now, just no one really talked about it since the offense was clicking and the team was winning. There has always been a bit too much made about Woody's influence on the teams D. The effort starts with the players and ends with the players. When Melo wasn't giving effort on D it was noticeable. No one coaxed him into defending harder, he just did. Same goes with Tyson. He hasn't been defending as hard as he did last year and it's obvious the teams overall effort level is down.
The schedule, Age and injury all play a part in the Knicks not being able to defend at an elite level of late. We really need a healthy and active Brewer and Felton. Brewer fell off a long time ago and Felton was destined to cool off too. Not to mention that it was almost expected that Felton would lose a bit of steam over the course of a full season, much like he did last time he was here. He's not Westbrook, a guy built to go hard like that. Gotta hope Shump can give this team a boost and that Brewer can get his 2nd wind or whatever he needs to get his energy level back. Then when Felton comes back we should be in good shape on the perimeter again.
Now we are coming closer to the root of the problem we start seeing with this team...
The problem is we hardly have any proven 2-way players.
Melo and JR raised their game by start giving effort on D but they are not defensive beasts by any stretch.
The only 2-way player we have is Kid and he actually was this player and now he is just a shadow of what he was.
I cannot see how we can have defense and offense at the same time on the court as we can play only 5 players at time not 10.
The only way this team can consistently win games after all teams in NBA figure this fact out is to play smart.
Smart meaning to play into the strength of the players we have.
We need to have offensive 5 on the court and outscore the opponent and then defensive unit to stop the ball and try to keep things close to even.
This way we were able to win when the season started. But then injuries came and mess this harmony up. We have some mix of offense (Melo, Chandler, Kid) and defense (kurt, Brewer) to start and we cannot outscore anybody. Then we bring defense/offense from the bench and we cannot stop anybody.
We should start offense (Tyson, Melo, Cope, Novak, Kid) and then bring in more defense (Camby, STAT, JR, Brewer, Prigony). This will maximize our abilities and somehow neutralize STSAT defenseless. If he is not defending, then bench him for Kurt or Sheed when he will come back.
gunsnewing wrote:Exactly which is why I don't understand why he keeping trotting KT out there to start games when the trend has been to get off to slow starts defensively. I think Woodson finally realized this last night. Amare will be the starting PF. Right now, for about a weeks or so you start Camby and Bring Amare in at the 5 and push the ball with Prigs and JR
Yeah this is what the team is missing in the syarting line up. LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TcrPL40L...
Stat is a bench player in my eyes.
Nalod wrote:misterearl wrote:Where was the "on the coach" thread when the Knicks were 20-8?The Knicks are not the problem. The need for instant gratification is the problem.
Amar'e Stoudemire returns with rusty joints, our starting point guard is wearing a soft cast, Jason Kidd needs an oxygen mask, SuperMelo is grimacing with a tender knee, Tyson Chandler is playing extended minutes without a stunt man, Pablo Prigioni has never played in The Rucker, Chris Copeland is wearing a Disney backpack, Shump has never come back from a serious injury in his athletic career, Ronnie Brewer makes Chris Dudley look like Kobe Bryant, JR Smith cannot be trusted (but he is jellin' like a felon), Marcus Camby is in training camp mode, Sheed is in a suit, James White is on roller skates without a defined role, Kurt is steady but slow and Steve Novak is famine or feast.
None of it fits. We are old, constantly in a state of change due to injuries and the next heavy drama is right around the corner.
What's not to like?
.........Stat, awakes from his coma to find his team in need of his powers. He trains in the manchurian mountains alone with his dog studying the anchient diciplines while nurishing his body with nothing but the wild nuts and berries he finds blind folded at nite in the thicket with both his ankles bound. He bleeds himself to regernate a rebith while his dog howls of the fear his instincts scream. His master is alone, cold and determined to return as once before. The K-9 does not understand and cries. Amare calms him with a prehistoric chant and pats him on the head. The dog fears no more.
Stat return to the mecca inspires the gasps of the followers who upon seeing him are shocked by this resurecction and the joyful pride of what his return means. Thousands will rejoince in time. But first there is much work to be done. He will have to simulate battle and then take a small role at first until his generals deem him fit to start the game.
A new hair pattern? New tatoo? New symbol of rebirth? Not this time. Amare has shead enough tears, coach's and fire extinguishers.
Time has come for a quiet hero to assume his place among the greats and dominate.
He returns having bonded with his women who granted him sons. Marriage was once seen as trivial to the warrior but he grants his offspring the confidence that marriage can bring to a women. They too will grow up, be bar mitzvahed and take their place on the throne with their father.
Amare long glaze into the beard of Woodson and he knows what he must do. Sacrifice at first then lead the troops to battle once his scars have healed and he has earned the trust of the men.
High above the theatre awaits Dolan who brow sweats and heart beat roars in excitment as Amare enters the fray. With one hand he slips below his belt line to awaken his throbbing stub of manhood as only amare can direct the blood flow to it like no other. 20 million dollars a year DOlan wispers and to him its worth every penny! not since Spree has Dolan felt this alive!
HIs first game will be just beginning. The battle lost for the good of the long cold war that awaits the knicks!
Those who doubt shall be cast aside and only those who believe will enjoy the spoils of victory!
Good stuff, Gents!!