Knicks · On the coach from here on in. (page 1)

Weve started nice but weve hit a roadblock. The minus I see from Coach Woodson is an inability to be flexible. I fully understand we have injury problems--but that was expected when the oldest team in NBA history was constructed. Anyone from a far has seen our slow starts and poor D and R for the last 10 games. Our 2nd best player has been JR Smith. For us to start faster--IMHO start Smith at 2G--take pressure off of J Kidd and use Camby and Wallace as your PF's with Chandler and Amare as our C's. Amare can also slide to 4 next to Chandler as well. Please use White and Copeland--integrate instead of hesitate. We have too many slow legs out there.

Camby and JR Smith to starting line up for defense energy and scoring.

Amare to 6th man

bench Brewer and Novak for now and insert fresh legs Copeland and White

Got this from another site

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/02/s...

“In first halves this year, the Knicks are the 28th-worst defensive team in the league if you go by points per 100 possessions. In the second half, their defense improves to 8th-best in the league. If you dig deeper, the Knicks are the No. 3 defensive team in the entire NBA in the fourth quarter. I somehow doubt Woodson’s defensive schemes change in the fourth quarter. The only explanation is that the Knicks are playing harder. Of course, the implication is that for the other three quarters, the team isn’t putting the effort necessary in on defense.”

Effort and it starts with Woody and Tyson. Imho.

yellowboy90 wrote:Got this from another site

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/02/s...

“In first halves this year, the Knicks are the 28th-worst defensive team in the league if you go by points per 100 possessions. In the second half, their defense improves to 8th-best in the league. If you dig deeper, the Knicks are the No. 3 defensive team in the entire NBA in the fourth quarter. I somehow doubt Woodson’s defensive schemes change in the fourth quarter. The only explanation is that the Knicks are playing harder. Of course, the implication is that for the other three quarters, the team isn’t putting the effort necessary in on defense.”

Effort and it starts with Woody and Tyson. Imho.

wait wait wait... didnt we fire the last coach and throw a party (thank god THAT problem is gone) because he didnt get the team to play hard defensively? How could this be? MDA is gone, and yet half these guys still loaf on defense?

In first halves this year, the Knicks are the 28th-worst defensive team in the league if you go by points per 100 possessions

thats pretty incredible.

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Got this from another site

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/02/s...

“In first halves this year, the Knicks are the 28th-worst defensive team in the league if you go by points per 100 possessions. In the second half, their defense improves to 8th-best in the league. If you dig deeper, the Knicks are the No. 3 defensive team in the entire NBA in the fourth quarter. I somehow doubt Woodson’s defensive schemes change in the fourth quarter. The only explanation is that the Knicks are playing harder. Of course, the implication is that for the other three quarters, the team isn’t putting the effort necessary in on defense.”

Effort and it starts with Woody and Tyson. Imho.

wait wait wait... didnt we fire the last coach and throw a party (thank god THAT problem is gone) because he didnt get the team to play hard defensively? How could this be? MDA is gone, and yet half these guys still loaf on defense?

In first halves this year, the Knicks are the 28th-worst defensive team in the league if you go by points per 100 possessions

thats pretty incredible.

The other coach would not have them playong good D in the second half either. This team is capable and are doing it but not a full game worth.

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Got this from another site

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/02/s...

“In first halves this year, the Knicks are the 28th-worst defensive team in the league if you go by points per 100 possessions. In the second half, their defense improves to 8th-best in the league. If you dig deeper, the Knicks are the No. 3 defensive team in the entire NBA in the fourth quarter. I somehow doubt Woodson’s defensive schemes change in the fourth quarter. The only explanation is that the Knicks are playing harder. Of course, the implication is that for the other three quarters, the team isn’t putting the effort necessary in on defense.”

Effort and it starts with Woody and Tyson. Imho.

wait wait wait... didnt we fire the last coach and throw a party (thank god THAT problem is gone) because he didnt get the team to play hard defensively? How could this be? MDA is gone, and yet half these guys still loaf on defense?

In first halves this year, the Knicks are the 28th-worst defensive team in the league if you go by points per 100 possessions

thats pretty incredible.

fishmike--its a simple strategic alteration. Good coaches can deviate and reconstruct a game plan in game. Here Mike Woodson has the data at his fingertips--we are starting games off very poorly on the D. What can we do to alter this trend? We can insert new players who are tailored to bringing results in defensive and rebounding with Smith and Camby.

Briggs.. I hear you, but when does that happen? Sometimes, but more often then not these guys ride their views and horses right out of town.

And yellowboy... Woody's Knicks this year are #20 of 30 in defensive rating. MDA's last full season Knicks were #22. Sorry dude, you may "feel" like Woody's teams are so much better defensively, but they really arent.

Sometimes its the players. Keep watching, you will see

We are at least two full months away from hitting the panic button..We are still 21-10 and one of the better teams in the east ...We have until the all star break to integrate Amare and Shump..Felton should be back in another month...We have no idea who we are until Amare, Shump, Felton, Sheed and Camby are up to speed...No need for panic moves just yet...

fishmike wrote:Briggs.. I hear you, but when does that happen? Sometimes, but more often then not these guys ride their views and horses right out of town.

And yellowboy... Woody's Knicks this year are #20 of 30 in defensive rating. MDA's last full season Knicks were #22. Sorry dude, you may "feel" like Woody's teams are so much better defensively, but they really arent.

Sometimes its the players. Keep watching, you will see

You said full season and keep watching. So let's

It's ALWAYS on the Coach

Briggs - "on the coach" from here on in?

From January 2 to infinity?

Where exactly is "on in"?

If you are going to blame the coach then you need to blame the GM and the owner.

Where was the "on the coach" thread when the Knicks were 20-8?

The Knicks are not the problem. The need for instant gratification is the problem.

Amar'e Stoudemire returns with rusty joints and no game experience with any of the active guards, our starting point guard is wearing a soft cast and shoots too much, Jason Kidd needs an oxygen mask and a deep tissue massage every other day, SuperMelo is grimacing with a tender knee, Tyson Chandler is playing extended minutes without a stunt man, Pablo Prigioni has never played in The Rucker, Chris Copeland is wearing a Disney backpack, Shump has never come back from a serious injury in his athletic career, Ronnie Brewer makes Chris Dudley look like Kobe Bryant, JR Smith cannot be trusted (but he is jellin' like a felon), Marcus Camby is in training camp mode, Sheed is in a suit, James White is on roller skates without a defined role, Kurt is steady but slow and Steve Novak is famine or feast.

None of it fits. We are old, constantly in a state of change due to injuries and the next heavy drama is right around the corner.

What's not to like?

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:Briggs.. I hear you, but when does that happen? Sometimes, but more often then not these guys ride their views and horses right out of town.

And yellowboy... Woody's Knicks this year are #20 of 30 in defensive rating. MDA's last full season Knicks were #22. Sorry dude, you may "feel" like Woody's teams are so much better defensively, but they really arent.

Sometimes its the players. Keep watching, you will see

You said full season and keep watching. So let's

sure... Knicks are struggling so lets wait the whole season. Unless Lin, Gallo, MDA's Lakers or David Lee are struggling. Then its cause they suck.

Got it.

This is all window dressing. We will see what this front office has built come spring.

misterearl wrote:Where was the "on the coach" thread when the Knicks were 20-8?

The Knicks are not the problem. The need for instant gratification is the problem.

Amar'e Stoudemire returns with rusty joints and no game experience with any of the active guards, our starting point guard is wearing a soft cast and shoots too much, Jason Kidd needs an oxygen mask and a deep tissue massage every other day, SuperMelo is grimacing with a tender knee, Tyson Chandler is playing extended minutes without a stunt man, Pablo Prigioni has never played in The Rucker, Chris Copeland is wearing a Disney backpack, Shump has never come back from a serious injury in his athletic career, Ronnie Brewer makes Chris Dudley look like Kobe Bryant, JR Smith cannot be trusted (but he is jellin' like a felon), Marcus Camby is in training camp mode, Sheed is in a suit, James White is on roller skates without a defined role, Kurt is steady but slow and Steve Novak is famine or feast.

None of it fits. We are old, constantly in a state of change due to injuries and the next heavy drama is right around the corner.

What's not to like?

Yep, it looks funny.
Not sure it is what Knicks fans wanted... or may be this is exactly it?

Since we're talking about coaching, here's a little Amare bombshell that many here already knew:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/...

"I think just having a defensive coach for the first time in my career is going to help," he said. "I've never been taught defense in my whole career, so to now have a coach that actually teaches defense and teaches strategies, and knows positioning and posture, how to guard different plays, it's going to be helpful. I'm going to take it as a challenge, and I'm going to accept the challenge and try to improve as a player."

Geez, just kick more dirt on D'Antoni's grave will ya Stat!

misterearl wrote:Where was the "on the coach" thread when the Knicks were 20-8?

The Knicks are not the problem. The need for instant gratification is the problem.

Amar'e Stoudemire returns with rusty joints, our starting point guard is wearing a soft cast, Jason Kidd needs an oxygen mask, SuperMelo is grimacing with a tender knee, Tyson Chandler is playing extended minutes without a stunt man, Pablo Prigioni has never played in The Rucker, Chris Copeland is wearing a Disney backpack, Shump has never come back from a serious injury in his athletic career, Ronnie Brewer makes Chris Dudley look like Kobe Bryant, JR Smith cannot be trusted (but he is jellin' like a felon), Marcus Camby is in training camp mode, Sheed is in a suit, James White is on roller skates without a defined role, Kurt is steady but slow and Steve Novak is famine or feast.

None of it fits. We are old, constantly in a state of change due to injuries and the next heavy drama is right around the corner.

What's not to like?

.........Stat, awakes from his coma to find his team in need of his powers. He trains in the manchurian mountains alone with his dog studying the anchient diciplines while nurishing his body with nothing but the wild nuts and berries he finds blind folded at nite in the thicket with both his ankles bound. He bleeds himself to regernate a rebith while his dog howls of the fear his instincts scream. His master is alone, cold and determined to return as once before. The K-9 does not understand and cries. Amare calms him with a prehistoric chant and pats him on the head. The dog fears no more.

Stat return to the mecca inspires the gasps of the followers who upon seeing him are shocked by this resurecction and the joyful pride of what his return means. Thousands will rejoince in time. But first there is much work to be done. He will have to simulate battle and then take a small role at first until his generals deem him fit to start the game.

A new hair pattern? New tatoo? New symbol of rebirth? Not this time. Amare has shead enough tears, coach's and fire extinguishers.

Time has come for a quiet hero to assume his place among the greats and dominate.

He returns having bonded with his women who granted him sons. Marriage was once seen as trivial to the warrior but he grants his offspring the confidence that marriage can bring to a women. They too will grow up, be bar mitzvahed and take their place on the throne with their father.

Amare long glaze into the beard of Woodson and he knows what he must do. Sacrifice at first then lead the troops to battle once his scars have healed and he has earned the trust of the men.

High above the theatre awaits Dolan who brow sweats and heart beat roars in excitment as Amare enters the fray. With one hand he slips below his belt line to awaken his throbbing stub of manhood as only amare can direct the blood flow to it like no other. 20 million dollars a year DOlan wispers and to him its worth every penny! not since Spree has Dolan felt this alive!

HIs first game will be just beginning. The battle lost for the good of the long cold war that awaits the knicks!

Those who doubt shall be cast aside and only those who believe will enjoy the spoils of victory!

ChuckBuck wrote:Since we're talking about coaching, here's a little Amare bombshell that many here already knew:

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/...

"I think just having a defensive coach for the first time in my career is going to help," he said. "I've never been taught defense in my whole career, so to now have a coach that actually teaches defense and teaches strategies, and knows positioning and posture, how to guard different plays, it's going to be helpful. I'm going to take it as a challenge, and I'm going to accept the challenge and try to improve as a player."

Geez, just kick more dirt on D'Antoni's grave will ya Stat!

Amare is not a spring chicken to learn new tricks.
He can talk right thing all day long but when he is on the court he is as bad a defender as he ever been.
As soon as he is on the court the penitrating guards are gearing for the party to get their carrier highs so are the rebounders/post-up bigs.
He will block a shot or two, but that's about it.

Nalod wrote:

misterearl wrote:Where was the "on the coach" thread when the Knicks were 20-8?

The Knicks are not the problem. The need for instant gratification is the problem.

Amar'e Stoudemire returns with rusty joints, our starting point guard is wearing a soft cast, Jason Kidd needs an oxygen mask, SuperMelo is grimacing with a tender knee, Tyson Chandler is playing extended minutes without a stunt man, Pablo Prigioni has never played in The Rucker, Chris Copeland is wearing a Disney backpack, Shump has never come back from a serious injury in his athletic career, Ronnie Brewer makes Chris Dudley look like Kobe Bryant, JR Smith cannot be trusted (but he is jellin' like a felon), Marcus Camby is in training camp mode, Sheed is in a suit, James White is on roller skates without a defined role, Kurt is steady but slow and Steve Novak is famine or feast.

None of it fits. We are old, constantly in a state of change due to injuries and the next heavy drama is right around the corner.

What's not to like?

.........Stat, awakes from his coma to find his team in need of his powers. He trains in the manchurian mountains alone with his dog studying the anchient diciplines while nurishing his body with nothing but the wild nuts and berries he finds blind folded at nite in the thicket with both his ankles bound. He bleeds himself to regernate a rebith while his dog howls of the fear his instincts scream. His master is alone, cold and determined to return as once before. The K-9 does not understand and cries. Amare calms him with a prehistoric chant and pats him on the head. The dog fears no more.

Stat return to the mecca inspires the gasps of the followers who upon seeing him are shocked by this resurecction and the joyful pride of what his return means. Thousands will rejoince in time. But first there is much work to be done. He will have to simulate battle and then take a small role at first until his generals deem him fit to start the game.

A new hair pattern? New tatoo? New symbol of rebirth? Not this time. Amare has shead enough tears, coach's and fire extinguishers.

Time has come for a quiet hero to assume his place among the greats and dominate.

He returns having bonded with his women who granted him sons. Marriage was once seen as trivial to the warrior but he grants his offspring the confidence that marriage can bring to a women. They too will grow up, be bar mitzvahed and take their place on the throne with their father.

Amare long glaze into the beard of Woodson and he knows what he must do. Sacrifice at first then lead the troops to battle once his scars have healed and he has earned the trust of the men.

High above the theatre awaits Dolan who brow sweats and heart beat roars in excitment as Amare enters the fray. With one hand he slips below his belt line to awaken his throbbing stub of manhood as only amare can direct the blood flow to it like no other. 20 million dollars a year DOlan wispers and to him its worth every penny! not since Spree has Dolan felt this alive!

HIs first game will be just beginning. The battle lost for the good of the long cold war that awaits the knicks!

Those who doubt shall be cast aside and only those who believe will enjoy the spoils of victory!

No sht...

I agree on the points that Briggs makes

Injuries of Felton, Rasheed, and allowing Brewer and STAT to get in NBA shape, have changed our offensive and defensive abilities

BUT

Woodson has not changed the philosophy of the strength's and weaknesses's of these changes in his roster
Make adjustments, put the player's that are struggling on a shorter leash

We have had consecutive bad starts to the game for a reason, coming back from behind each game, and playing catch up basketball

1) We have to make changes
2) Recognize why we are struggling
3) Do what we can to fix it

*We cannot just tell our roster to play better DEF, our roster has changed*
it is like when Larry Brown was here, he wanted to our roster to play better DEF/REBOUND the ball, but we did not have the player to do it
IT doesn't matter what how Woodson tells the roster to play DEF, it just isn't in their abilities with the roster he is playing

We started of the season with a generally SMALL lineup, but it works because they were quick enough on both ends of the floor, spread the court efficiently, and had 2 generals at the PG/SG positions with Kidd/Felton together to attack our opponents DEF with penetration/shooting ability

Kidd has been very successful playing the SG role

1) as the 2nd/3rd ball handler *although barely any penetration if any*
2) he is a great spot up shooter, he can defend the SG position much better
3) the SG role, exerts much less energy, allowing him to be much more productive

========================
Quick Fixes
========================

1) We need that 2nd ball handler/shooting/penetration on our starting roster
===================================================================================

START JR Smith and continue Melo at the 4, he actually plays some PG anyway even with Pablo in for a reason and PABLO KNOWS IT

WE NEED THE ABILITY TO PENETRATE with the shooters to spread the floor
That is why Pablo almost ALWAYS quickly gives the ball to him, because he is the only one that his this ability besides FELTON

This would help our starting roster with DEFENSE and OFFENSE, most importantly put an end to our come from behind game situations

*We should be looking for a PG to acquire as well*

This will allow Kidd to continue to spread the floor, defend SG's, allow Kidd to conserve his energy, and continue to play at a high/effective level
With our current starting lineup, no one has the ability to penetrate, only Melo at best, but with Kurt Thomas and Chandler, he loss the room to operate down the post.

2) Bench Scoring
===============================

Copeland, he has shown he has the ability to score, so give him some of the 6th man duties that JR Smith was needed for on the bench
And if you play Novak and Copeland together, especially at the SF/PF, they will get BEAT DEFENSIVELY majority of the play's, so it make's it even worse if we are playing from behind
When playing together, they are huge mismatches at those positions

3) STOP constantly playing the DUMP THE BALL and make Melo, JR Smith, especially, Amare *praying they execute and hit the shot style, as the rest stand to watch
======================================================================================================================================================================

NOT have Melo or JR rest, as the other plays the alternating taking 1v1 scoring rampages

or

Amare is not in game shape yet, do not expect him to play as our #1 option, and let Amare, the player's realize this, till he gets in better shape
He has to accept and focus playing a different role but the players cannot expect him to play as his former self either
FOCUS on getting other's shots with pick's OFF THE BALL too, not just on the ball
FOCUS on rebounds, cutting at the right time, and DEFENSE

We need to have a better flow and efficient offense in which utilizes all player on the roster
Set more screen's off the ball, have ball movement, player movement, and RUN some damn plays with OPTIONS

4) Change of Philosophy/Pace/Tempo with our different rosters/lineup's 2nd unit-3rd unit's
==================================================================================================

Different players have different skill sets and weakness's, so we cannot play with 1 identity when the player's on the court change.

We do not have the shooter's and ball handling/penetration, we played earlier with
So depending on who is on the floor, both the COACH and PLAYERS, must recognize this and prepare for the changes

If we put a defensive minded roster in, the team MUST work on the DEF together as a unit
DEPENDING on the lineup in, defensive phisophies should change accordingly
We don't always have to play with 4 shooters or so and always look to spread the floor

If Camby/Tyson can coexist together with the matchup's, we should FOCUS on their ability to block shots, REBOUND, and play DEF to initiate our offense
Especially when we have to give our scorer's rest
Yes, I know they are limited offensively, but let's focus on what they do bring together
We have to be able to buy our scorer's some time to rest

5) Practice
================================

Yes, we talking about practice, our entire lineup has been injured and unable to practice, this contributes to their game shape, and mental/physical preparations for the games ahead

RonRon wrote:========================
Quick Fixes
========================

1) We need that 2nd ball handler/shooting/penetration on our starting roster
===================================================================================

START JR Smith, he actually plays some PG anyway even with Pablo in
WE NEED THE ABILITY TO PENETRATE with the shooters to spread the floor
That is why Pablo almost ALWAYS quickly gives the ball to him, because he is the only one that his this ability besides FELTON

*We should be looking for a PG to acquire as well*

This will allow Kidd to continue to spread the floor, defend SG's, and continue to play at a high/effective level

2) Bench Scoring
===============================

Copeland, he has shown he has the ability to score, so give him some of the 6th man duties that JR Smith was needed for on the bench
And if you play Novak and Copeland together, especially at the SF/PF, they will get BEAT DEFENSIVELY majority of the play's, so it make's it even worse if we are playing from behind
When playing together, they are huge mismatches at those positions

3) STOP constantly playing the DUMP THE BALL and make Melo, JR Smith, especially, Amare *praying they execute and hit the shot style, as the rest stand to watch
======================================================================================================================================================================

NOT have Melo or JR rest, as the other plays the alternating taking 1v1 scoring rampages

or

Amare is not in game shape yet, do not expect him to play as our #1 option, and let Amare, the player's realize this, till he gets in better shape
He has to accept and focus playing a different role but the players cannot expect him to play as his former self either
FOCUS on getting other's shots with pick's OFF THE BALL too, not just on the ball
FOCUS on rebounds, cutting at the right time, and DEFENSE

We need to have a better flow and efficient offense in which utilizes all player on the roster
Set more screen's off the ball, have ball movement, player movement, and RUN some damn plays with OPTIONS

4) Change of Philosophy/Pace/Tempo with our different rosters/lineup's 2nd unit-3rd unit's
==================================================================================================

Different players have different skill sets and weakness's, so we cannot play with 1 identity when the player's on the court change.

We do not have the shooter's and ball handling/penetration, we played earlier with
So depending on who is on the floor, both the COACH and PLAYERS, must recognize this and prepare for the changes

If we put a defensive minded roster in, the team MUST work on the DEF together as a unit
DEPENDING on the lineup in, defensive phisophies should change accordingly
We don't always have to play with 4 shooters or so and always look to spread the floor

If Camby/Tyson can coexist together with the matchup's, we should FOCUS on their ability to block shots, REBOUND, and play DEF to initiate our offense
Especially when we have to give our scorer's rest
Yes, I know they are limited offensively, but let's focus on what they do bring together
We have to be able to buy our scorer's some time to rest

5) Practice
================================

Yes, we talking about practice, our entire lineup has been injured and unable to practice, this contributes to their game shape, and mental/physical preparations for the games ahead

Fix the Knicks... Talk to Dolan. After Woody will be fired after first round exit you can submit the resume.

RonRon - there are no quick fixes.

There is only experience to be gained by working together in game situations.

There are no quick fixes because this is not baseball cards and basketball is a team sport with a live opponent who is also working to get better.

There are no quick fixes.