NBA · Rockets/duo had NYK number, *But still ain't sold on HOUS Jeremy Sin & James Hardened as NBA's threats: (page 1)

Yea yea maybe a little sour grapes from DJ and knick fans witness how Rockets played well their only 2 games
blasting our knickerbockers to kingdom come, 2 Knicks devasting losses. But Knicks still have better winning/loss
record and NY beat some very good teams too!

DJ been watching Rockets alot as many forum or NBA fans here perhaps.

Despite Rockets well play & Jeremy Sin's improved PG play leading Rockets with star James Hardened to winning record
I'll never be sold on that tandem of their team as "THE GUYs" that gonna do something when the lights are brightest
and the NBA pressure is on.

Sure Rockets is exciting offensive team and puts a lot on pressure on NBA foes when Harden and Lin are clicking.
Sure both Rockets stars appear to be trying to pass the ball a little more as opposed to forcing the offense &
often chucking up shots which goes in at times such as James Harden style.

But I'm sold that when it comes to pressure hoops, or a big free throw, or a tight tight game even in the playoffs
neither Jeremy Sin nor James Hardened with all the shots they chuck up and the "THINK" offense first score on anybody
mentatility they will prevail against the better NBA 1-on-1 defenders OR the better NBA team defenses especially in the
NBA playoffs.

Do not misunderstand my point, I dont like Harden but respect him & could care less for Jeremy Lin after he turned his
back on some Knick negotiations then but Lin did alot for Knicks putting himself on the map, he can play some ball.

However the duo of James and Jeremy turn the ball over way too much. Both players average combined nearly 8 TO's per game.

Furthermore Jeremy or/and James will NEVER, EVER be #1's. The can be #1's on their team but I'm talking bout legit NBA
no. 1's or game changers. Crunchtime game makers. Lin and Harden are best in which Rockets has 10pt or greater leads.

Put their assess in bunch of tight games down to the wire the dynamic duo are either missing free throws or missing jumpshots.

Physical teams will wear them down eventually and when the Rockets are in a 1-2 point game the last second of the game
neither James Hardened or Lin will be able to win games at the end when some old fashioned defense and pressure steps
up, especially Harden. You see what Miami Heat serious defense without a center did to Harden whom when he gets pressure
at big times of game he's not going to be a #1 or a lead go to guy the way the NBA makes James out to be despite James Hardened's
terrific offensive play in games Rockets won & often blew out NBA teams.

Lin does have a nice game but his ceiling to improve isnt much higher as you've/we seen once you're forcing Lin to play
some good ole' fashion defense on few other top NBA PGs, he'll often disappear *POOF!

sour grapes

So the Rockets and Bulls "have our number" but how quickly these critics forget, that our New York Knicks have the number of both the Miami Heat and San Antonio Spurs. 4-0 combined.

Let's call a spade, a spade. Shall we?

Lets not let the fact's get in the way of NBA basketball...

Knicks are a better team for now. I think the rocket hype is about Lin and we as knick fans have him under a microscope. some blasted Morey for Asik and Lin thinking he over paid.

He did, but he is getting value in return. The Harden deal nobody saw coming but its really accelerated their rebuild. In the new CBA, it can happen sooner.

They a good young team with future upside and Asik only on like a 3 year deal and tradeable. We are at the peak with this team given age and out better players right in their prime.

Thats not a bad thing, it just is.

NYKMentality wrote:So the Rockets and Bulls "have our number" but how quickly these critics forget, that our New York Knicks have the number of both the Miami Heat and San Antonio Spurs. 4-0 combined.

Let's call a spade, a spade. Shall we?

Lets not let the fact's get in the way of NBA basketball...

Agree i feel knicks can only get better,
I dont mean to be sour grapes towards rockets,
Givin credit where its due to harden lin & parsons
The style is winning them games

However i am biased when i see less defense & more offense
Where rockets very good at outscoring teams

Just feel strongly you aint goin to see many game winning shots
Or clutch free throws from Harden when it counts.

At least Lin did that in Ny
Teams will figure out let Lin have to pass the rock & take
Chances on Jumpin James trying to make big shot, i say he can't

That is my point & point of being real #1 guy on team for all kudos
Harden gets

The easiest transition is to go from bad/mediocre to average/good. The hardest transition is to go from average/good to great, which is why we've seen so many decent "up and coming" teams get hyped up, only to stall in the following years, then fall by the wayside

Why start a new thread when we already have the ultimaterockets.com place to talk about NBA games not Knicks thread nearly 100 pages deep....

DJMUSIC wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:So the Rockets and Bulls "have our number" but how quickly these critics forget, that our New York Knicks have the number of both the Miami Heat and San Antonio Spurs. 4-0 combined.

Let's call a spade, a spade. Shall we?

Lets not let the fact's get in the way of NBA basketball...

Agree i feel knicks can only get better,
I dont mean to be sour grapes towards rockets,
Givin credit where its due to harden lin & parsons
The style is winning them games

However i am biased when i see less defense & more offense
Where rockets very good at outscoring teams
Just feel strongly you aint goin to see many game winning shots
Or clutch free throws from Harden when it counts.

At least Lin did that in Ny
Teams will figure out let Lin have to pass the rock & take
Chances on Jumpin James trying to make big shot, i say he can't

That is my point & point of being real #1 guy on team for all kudos
Harden gets

If the Knicks can get better when their average age is 36 years old, Houston can also get better when their average age is 24, currently the Knicks (OPG% 45.7) and Rockets (OFG% 46.0) are only two spots apart in the ranking defensively.
Trust me what had carry the Knicks on most night is Kidd / Chandlers’ leadership, Melo’s MVP type season and some good offense, the defense was only in the beginning.

KnicksFE wrote:
If the Knicks can get better when their average age is 36 years old, Houston can also get better when their average age is 24, currently the Knicks (OPG% 45.7) and Rockets (OFG% 46.0) are only two spots apart in the ranking defensively.
Trust me what had carry the Knicks on most night is Kidd / Chandlers’ leadership, Melo’s MVP type season and some good offense, the defense was only in the beginning.

The average age on the knicks is 36? That doesnt sound right.

Regardless, here is a good example of how numbers mislead. The age on the knicks squad rests largely on periphery players (KT, Camby, Sheed) The knicks core: Melo, Felton, Amare, Tyson, Shump, JR, Novak is a collection of players in their prime, or entering it. The only aging core player is Kidd. KT in particular, since he plays so little, skews the distribution.

If you look at the ages and payrolls of the roster, the Knicks are probably about as good as they will ever be (currently at .680) and the Rockets are probably as bad as they will ever be (currently at .580). Because they're in the east, the Knicks do have a much better shot at making it to the finals though.

sebstar wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:
If the Knicks can get better when their average age is 36 years old, Houston can also get better when their average age is 24, currently the Knicks (OPG% 45.7) and Rockets (OFG% 46.0) are only two spots apart in the ranking defensively.
Trust me what had carry the Knicks on most night is Kidd / Chandlers’ leadership, Melo’s MVP type season and some good offense, the defense was only in the beginning.

The average age on the knicks is 36? That doesnt sound right.

Regardless, here is a good example of how numbers mislead. The age on the knicks squad rests largely on periphery players (KT, Camby, Sheed) The knicks core: Melo, Felton, Amare, Tyson, Shump, JR, Novak is a collection of players in their prime, or entering it. The only aging core player is Kidd. KT in particular, since he plays so little, skews the distribution.

Believe it, the Knicks are the oldest team in the NBA, the second I think is Miami with a 29 years old average, while technically STAT is 29; his body is really much older than that, so I don’t think I would include him in the list of players in their prime.

KnicksFE wrote:

sebstar wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:
If the Knicks can get better when their average age is 36 years old, Houston can also get better when their average age is 24, currently the Knicks (OPG% 45.7) and Rockets (OFG% 46.0) are only two spots apart in the ranking defensively.
Trust me what had carry the Knicks on most night is Kidd / Chandlers’ leadership, Melo’s MVP type season and some good offense, the defense was only in the beginning.

The average age on the knicks is 36? That doesnt sound right.

Regardless, here is a good example of how numbers mislead. The age on the knicks squad rests largely on periphery players (KT, Camby, Sheed) The knicks core: Melo, Felton, Amare, Tyson, Shump, JR, Novak is a collection of players in their prime, or entering it. The only aging core player is Kidd. KT in particular, since he plays so little, skews the distribution.

Believe it, the Knicks are the oldest team in the NBA, the second I think is Miami with a 29 years old average, while technically STAT is 29; his body is really much older than that, so I don’t think I would include him in the list of players in their prime.

Knicks average age is 32.

ChuckBuck wrote:
Knicks average age is 32.

Thank you Chuck. Now that sounds right. LOL @ 36

Bonn1997 wrote:If you look at the ages and payrolls of the roster, the Knicks are probably about as good as they will ever be (currently at .680) and the Rockets are probably as bad as they will ever be (currently at .580)

How are you so assured of the future when it comes to progression/regression of the current rosters, but more specifically, with respect to future roster moves and how they will impact? A younger/older roster isnt an inherent promise or guarantee of anything.

KnicksFE wrote:while technically STAT is 29; his body is really much older than that, so I don’t think I would include him in the list of players in their prime.

Which proves how overrated age can be sometimes as a standalone explanation. Shump and Lin have already had knee issues so far. How old are they?

seb! what's up my man? great to see you back on here bro.

sebstar wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If you look at the ages and payrolls of the roster, the Knicks are probably about as good as they will ever be (currently at .680) and the Rockets are probably as bad as they will ever be (currently at .580)

How are you so assured of the future when it comes to progression/regression of the current rosters, but more specifically, with respect to future roster moves and how they will impact? A younger/older roster isnt an inherent promise or guarantee of anything.

I'm not so assured - that's why I said probably! The most common outcome is for players to peak in their mid 20s and go significantly downhill after hitting 30, though. Likewise, it is more common for teams with cap room and draft picks to improve and teams with neither to worsen.
The fact that Morey (a sabermetrician) knows how to use the best statistical evidence available gives me more confident in their future too.

nyk4ever wrote:seb! what's up my man? great to see you back on here bro.

Whats good 4ev?? Damn its been too long, fam.

NYKMentality wrote:So the Rockets and Bulls "have our number" but how quickly these critics forget, that our New York Knicks have the number of both the Miami Heat and San Antonio Spurs. 4-0 combined.

Let's call a spade, a spade. Shall we?

Lets not let the fact's get in the way of NBA basketball...

It's silly to say any team has any other team's # after 2 regular season games.

Bonn1997 wrote:

sebstar wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:If you look at the ages and payrolls of the roster, the Knicks are probably about as good as they will ever be (currently at .680) and the Rockets are probably as bad as they will ever be (currently at .580)

How are you so assured of the future when it comes to progression/regression of the current rosters, but more specifically, with respect to future roster moves and how they will impact? A younger/older roster isnt an inherent promise or guarantee of anything.

I'm not so assured - that's why I said probably! The most common outcome is for players to peak in their mid 20s and go significantly downhill after hitting 30, though. Likewise, it is more common for teams with cap room and draft picks to improve and teams with neither to worsen.
The fact that Morey (a sabermetrician) knows how to use the best statistical evidence available gives me more confident in their future too.

Funny how you now call Morey a Sabermetrician now that he had a good off season. I used to tell you that he was a sabermetrician when the rockets were awful (prior to this off season) and you did not like hearing it, argued that he was not ...

What a difference an off season makes.

KnicksFE wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:So the Rockets and Bulls "have our number" but how quickly these critics forget, that our New York Knicks have the number of both the Miami Heat and San Antonio Spurs. 4-0 combined.

Let's call a spade, a spade. Shall we?

Lets not let the fact's get in the way of NBA basketball...

Agree i feel knicks can only get better,
I dont mean to be sour grapes towards rockets,
Givin credit where its due to harden lin & parsons
The style is winning them games

However i am biased when i see less defense & more offense
Where rockets very good at outscoring teams
Just feel strongly you aint goin to see many game winning shots
Or clutch free throws from Harden when it counts.

At least Lin did that in Ny
Teams will figure out let Lin have to pass the rock & take
Chances on Jumpin James trying to make big shot, i say he can't

That is my point & point of being real #1 guy on team for all kudos
Harden gets

If the Knicks can get better when their average age is 36 years old, Houston can also get better when their average age is 24, currently the Knicks (OPG% 45.7) and Rockets (OFG% 46.0) are only two spots apart in the ranking defensively.
Trust me what had carry the Knicks on most night is Kidd / Chandlers’ leadership, Melo’s MVP type season and some good offense, the defense was only in the beginning.

Rockets are ranked 10th in the league defensively.
Rockets are ranked 1st in the league offensively.

Right now, they are not a 1 trick pony like the PHX Suns of MDA. They have a defensive center in Asik. They have good perimeter defenders in TD, Parsons and Lin.

I would have to disagree on your assessment of Lin and Harden as closers. Aside from the game last night, where the whole team had tired legs, this duo has been clutch. They are currently 21 and 15 in a tough Western Conference.

Harden is the real deal.