Knicks · Shump comparison... (page 3)

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:I don't get the infatuation with some over Latrell Sprewell. He wasn't a great defender, he never led the league in steals, he only made the All NBA Defensive 2nd Team once. Why set the bar so low for Shumpert?

I mean Latrell had a very good run with us for the lockout shortened season in '99, but overall his Knicks career was a mere footnote.

I did love his timely gamble steals leading to dunks though. Shumpert has the potential to be much much more than Latrell Sprewell. Why not a Hall of Famer in the Glove?

your not taking into account that he was a 2guard forced to guard bigger forwards and more often then not the best wing man on the opposing team. Houston was allowed to play the two spot and Spree has to make up for his defensive deficiencies.
He was a better than average defender and likely would have had a higher scoring average had he been allowed to play his natural position.

I understand that the Knicks played small ball alot(similiar to our edition), but I think his defense was still overrated. He never led the league in steals, or was in the top 5 ever, even in his GS days.

Then again, next to Allan Houston, it make it look like he's an All NBA Defensive teamer.

no one thinks that's a scaaaary coincidence?

ChuckBuck wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:I don't get the infatuation with some over Latrell Sprewell. He wasn't a great defender, he never led the league in steals, he only made the All NBA Defensive 2nd Team once. Why set the bar so low for Shumpert?

I mean Latrell had a very good run with us for the lockout shortened season in '99, but overall his Knicks career was a mere footnote.

I did love his timely gamble steals leading to dunks though. Shumpert has the potential to be much much more than Latrell Sprewell. Why not a Hall of Famer in the Glove?

your not taking into account that he was a 2guard forced to guard bigger forwards and more often then not the best wing man on the opposing team. Houston was allowed to play the two spot and Spree has to make up for his defensive deficiencies.
He was a better than average defender and likely would have had a higher scoring average had he been allowed to play his natural position.

I understand that the Knicks played small ball alot(similiar to our edition), but I think his defense was still overrated. He never led the league in steals, or was in the top 5 ever, even in his GS days.

Then again, next to Allan Houston, it make it look like he's an All NBA Defensive teamer.

He was always considered to be a great defensive player even though he was buried on some awful GS teams. If he was doing it on the Lakers or Spurs you bet he would've gotten more recognition

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't see Spree in Shump. I do see a jacked up Gary Payton. The Glove 2.0 would be great.

I see Shump's potential as Gary Payton on steroids as well.

He can have a similar effect on Defense but, looking at his physical mannerisms, I don't see any Gary Payton there.

Physical mannerisms?? HUH?

what, you've never heard the term before? What about body language? They way someone walks, stands, they way they carry themselves i.e.: Physical mannerisms.

Thats a good way to compare Shump and the Glove(green font rolling my eyes)

you seem to have misread what I wrote because I said he seems more like Spree. You obviously have no familiarity with the term which isn't rare and is a real term but, I guess it depends on the circles one travels.

So Shump hasta,walk,stand and carry himself like payton to play the game like payton?? BIZARRO WORLD LOL YOUR KIDDING RIGHT?

DAMN MAN, chill out. All I said was I thought his body language was more like Spree. What is your problem, its called an opinion.

OK WHATEVER LOL

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:I don't get the infatuation with some over Latrell Sprewell. He wasn't a great defender, he never led the league in steals, he only made the All NBA Defensive 2nd Team once. Why set the bar so low for Shumpert?

I mean Latrell had a very good run with us for the lockout shortened season in '99, but overall his Knicks career was a mere footnote.

I did love his timely gamble steals leading to dunks though. Shumpert has the potential to be much much more than Latrell Sprewell. Why not a Hall of Famer in the Glove?

your not taking into account that he was a 2guard forced to guard bigger forwards and more often then not the best wing man on the opposing team. Houston was allowed to play the two spot and Spree has to make up for his defensive deficiencies.
He was a better than average defender and likely would have had a higher scoring average had he been allowed to play his natural position.

I understand that the Knicks played small ball alot(similiar to our edition), but I think his defense was still overrated. He never led the league in steals, or was in the top 5 ever, even in his GS days.

Then again, next to Allan Houston, it make it look like he's an All NBA Defensive teamer.

He was always considered to be a great defensive player even though he was buried on some awful GS teams. If he was doing it on the Lakers or Spurs you bet he would've gotten more recognition

Like I mentioned in an earlier posts, Spree never led or finished in the top 5 in steals(finished 9th 1 season). He wasn't a great defender. Good, not great.

By comparison, Gary Payton, finished in the top 10 in steals 9 times between 1991 and 2000. Led the league in 1996 with 231 and won Defensive Player of the Year.

I'd like the bar to be higher for Shumpert, instead of average, why not Gary Payton?

DurzoBlint wrote:that Alan Houson game winner in Miami was not happening if Spree hadn't gotten the steal. It was looking like the last possession of the game, Miami guard was bringing the ball up when Spree stole it, passed to Alan and history was made. No clutch steal with seconds left in the 4th and Houston likely doesn't get that contract

Another comparison. Like when Shump got the steal in Toronto last year that led to Lin's game winning 3

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:I don't get the infatuation with some over Latrell Sprewell. He wasn't a great defender, he never led the league in steals, he only made the All NBA Defensive 2nd Team once. Why set the bar so low for Shumpert?

I mean Latrell had a very good run with us for the lockout shortened season in '99, but overall his Knicks career was a mere footnote.

I did love his timely gamble steals leading to dunks though. Shumpert has the potential to be much much more than Latrell Sprewell. Why not a Hall of Famer in the Glove?

your not taking into account that he was a 2guard forced to guard bigger forwards and more often then not the best wing man on the opposing team. Houston was allowed to play the two spot and Spree has to make up for his defensive deficiencies.
He was a better than average defender and likely would have had a higher scoring average had he been allowed to play his natural position.

I understand that the Knicks played small ball alot(similiar to our edition), but I think his defense was still overrated. He never led the league in steals, or was in the top 5 ever, even in his GS days.

Then again, next to Allan Houston, it make it look like he's an All NBA Defensive teamer.

He was always considered to be a great defensive player even though he was buried on some awful GS teams. If he was doing it on the Lakers or Spurs you bet he would've gotten more recognition

Like I mentioned in an earlier posts, Spree never led or finished in the top 5 in steals(finished 9th 1 season). He wasn't a great defender. Good, not great.

By comparison, Gary Payton, finished in the top 10 in steals 9 times between 1991 and 2000. Led the league in 1996 with 231 and won Defensive Player of the Year.

I'd like the bar to be higher for Shumpert, instead of average, why not Gary Payton?

You seem to be going with GP because of the steals. Steals is not a sign of a great defender. A lot of guys who lead the league in steals gamble and get beat often. GP did get in your face like Shump defensively though. As did Spree. You can't make Spree's lack of steals the reason why he is good but not great.

Say a guy averages 2 steals a game but the player he is guarding toasts him for 30-40pts. Like Lin. Doesn't make him a great defender cos he averages 2+ steals.

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:I don't get the infatuation with some over Latrell Sprewell. He wasn't a great defender, he never led the league in steals, he only made the All NBA Defensive 2nd Team once. Why set the bar so low for Shumpert?

I mean Latrell had a very good run with us for the lockout shortened season in '99, but overall his Knicks career was a mere footnote.

I did love his timely gamble steals leading to dunks though. Shumpert has the potential to be much much more than Latrell Sprewell. Why not a Hall of Famer in the Glove?

your not taking into account that he was a 2guard forced to guard bigger forwards and more often then not the best wing man on the opposing team. Houston was allowed to play the two spot and Spree has to make up for his defensive deficiencies.
He was a better than average defender and likely would have had a higher scoring average had he been allowed to play his natural position.

I understand that the Knicks played small ball alot(similiar to our edition), but I think his defense was still overrated. He never led the league in steals, or was in the top 5 ever, even in his GS days.

Then again, next to Allan Houston, it make it look like he's an All NBA Defensive teamer.

He was always considered to be a great defensive player even though he was buried on some awful GS teams. If he was doing it on the Lakers or Spurs you bet he would've gotten more recognition

Like I mentioned in an earlier posts, Spree never led or finished in the top 5 in steals(finished 9th 1 season). He wasn't a great defender. Good, not great.

By comparison, Gary Payton, finished in the top 10 in steals 9 times between 1991 and 2000. Led the league in 1996 with 231 and won Defensive Player of the Year.

I'd like the bar to be higher for Shumpert, instead of average, why not Gary Payton?

You seem to be going with GP because of the steals. Steals is not a sign of a great defender. A lot of guys who lead the league in steals gamble and get beat often. GP did get in your face like Shump defensively though. As did Spree. You can't make Spree's lack of steals the reason why he is good but not great.

Say a guy averages 2 steals a game but the player he is guarding toasts him for 30-40pts. Like Lin. Doesn't make him a great defender cos he averages 2+ steals.

GP was both. He was a great one on one defender. Defended Jordan the best out of any player. In your face body up defender and able to play the passing lanes as well.

9 time All NBA 1st team(tied with Michael Jordan)

GP was the greatest defensive guard outside of Michael Jordan. History and stats dictate this. Sprewell not so much.

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:I don't get the infatuation with some over Latrell Sprewell. He wasn't a great defender, he never led the league in steals, he only made the All NBA Defensive 2nd Team once. Why set the bar so low for Shumpert?

I mean Latrell had a very good run with us for the lockout shortened season in '99, but overall his Knicks career was a mere footnote.

I did love his timely gamble steals leading to dunks though. Shumpert has the potential to be much much more than Latrell Sprewell. Why not a Hall of Famer in the Glove?

your not taking into account that he was a 2guard forced to guard bigger forwards and more often then not the best wing man on the opposing team. Houston was allowed to play the two spot and Spree has to make up for his defensive deficiencies.
He was a better than average defender and likely would have had a higher scoring average had he been allowed to play his natural position.

I understand that the Knicks played small ball alot(similiar to our edition), but I think his defense was still overrated. He never led the league in steals, or was in the top 5 ever, even in his GS days.

Then again, next to Allan Houston, it make it look like he's an All NBA Defensive teamer.

He was always considered to be a great defensive player even though he was buried on some awful GS teams. If he was doing it on the Lakers or Spurs you bet he would've gotten more recognition

Like I mentioned in an earlier posts, Spree never led or finished in the top 5 in steals(finished 9th 1 season). He wasn't a great defender. Good, not great.

By comparison, Gary Payton, finished in the top 10 in steals 9 times between 1991 and 2000. Led the league in 1996 with 231 and won Defensive Player of the Year.

I'd like the bar to be higher for Shumpert, instead of average, why not Gary Payton?

You seem to be going with GP because of the steals. Steals is not a sign of a great defender. A lot of guys who lead the league in steals gamble and get beat often. GP did get in your face like Shump defensively though. As did Spree. You can't make Spree's lack of steals the reason why he is good but not great.

Say a guy averages 2 steals a game but the player he is guarding toasts him for 30-40pts. Like Lin. Doesn't make him a great defender cos he averages 2+ steals.

GP was both. He was a great one on one defender. Defended Jordan the best out of any player. In your face body up defender and able to play the passing lanes as well.

9 time All NBA 1st team(tied with Michael Jordan)

GP was the greatest defensive guard outside of Michael Jordan. History and stats dictate this. Sprewell not so much.

This

gunsnewing wrote:exactly GP was both. He and Jordan were alltime great defenders. Its not fair to say Spree is just good when you are comparing him to only those 2. He is not an alltime great but he was great. Better than good.

Above average, but below elite, no problem with that.

Only argument I have is Shumpert contains elite level defensive skill. No need to downgrade him with Sprewell. Upgrade him with Payton!

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:exactly GP was both. He and Jordan were alltime great defenders. Its not fair to say Spree is just good when you are comparing him to only those 2. He is not an alltime great but he was great. Better than good.

Above average, but below elite, no problem with that.

Only argument I have is Shumpert contains elite level defensive skill. No need to downgrade him with Sprewell. Upgrade him with Payton!

fair enough. Shump is great at getting steals and playing the ball but we still have to see how defends away from the ball. Learning nba defense takes time. Woodson will be hard on him. Hopefully it pays off and he will become a worldclass defensive player. Right now he is learning on the fly and catching up on what Woodson has already taught his players about where to be on defense. Once he gets it its going to be pretty in the playoffs.

You can see the improvement with Amare somewhat already

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:exactly GP was both. He and Jordan were alltime great defenders. Its not fair to say Spree is just good when you are comparing him to only those 2. He is not an alltime great but he was great. Better than good.

Above average, but below elite, no problem with that.

Only argument I have is Shumpert contains elite level defensive skill. No need to downgrade him with Sprewell. Upgrade him with Payton!

fair enough. Shump is great at getting steals and playing the ball but we still have to see how defends away from the ball. Learning nba defense takes time. Woodson will be hard on him. Hopefully it pays off and he will become a worldclass defensive player. Right now he is learning on the fly and catching up on what Woodson has already taught his players about where to be on defense. Once he gets it its going to be pretty in the playoffs

Amen to that.

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't see Spree in Shump. I do see a jacked up Gary Payton. The Glove 2.0 would be great.

I see Shump's potential as Gary Payton on steroids as well.

He can have a similar effect on Defense but, looking at his physical mannerisms, I don't see any Gary Payton there.

Physical mannerisms?? HUH?

what, you've never heard the term before? What about body language? They way someone walks, stands, they way they carry themselves i.e.: Physical mannerisms.

Thats a good way to compare Shump and the Glove(green font rolling my eyes)

you seem to have misread what I wrote because I said he seems more like Spree. You obviously have no familiarity with the term which isn't rare and is a real term but, I guess it depends on the circles one travels.

So Shump hasta,walk,stand and carry himself like payton to play the game like payton?? BIZARRO WORLD LOL YOUR KIDDING RIGHT?

DAMN MAN, chill out. All I said was I thought his body language was more like Spree. What is your problem, its called an opinion.

OK WHATEVER LOL

now your just trolling me. Get a life

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't see Spree in Shump. I do see a jacked up Gary Payton. The Glove 2.0 would be great.

I see Shump's potential as Gary Payton on steroids as well.

He can have a similar effect on Defense but, looking at his physical mannerisms, I don't see any Gary Payton there.

Physical mannerisms?? HUH?

what, you've never heard the term before? What about body language? They way someone walks, stands, they way they carry themselves i.e.: Physical mannerisms.

Thats a good way to compare Shump and the Glove(green font rolling my eyes)

you seem to have misread what I wrote because I said he seems more like Spree. You obviously have no familiarity with the term which isn't rare and is a real term but, I guess it depends on the circles one travels.

So Shump hasta,walk,stand and carry himself like payton to play the game like payton?? BIZARRO WORLD LOL YOUR KIDDING RIGHT?

DAMN MAN, chill out. All I said was I thought his body language was more like Spree. What is your problem, its called an opinion.

OK WHATEVER LOL

now your just trolling me. Get a life

He did the same to me. I put him on ignore. Never had used the feature before. Came in handy although I can still see his posts when he is quoted but better than nothing

fishmike wrote:playa... how can you say he will never be traded? Knicks tried already dude!

I believe they now Know what they have.

Danphoney is gone we need defenders to become an elite team in the league.

He's a keeper Mike.