Knicks · Knicks & Magic Scussin Redick 4 Shump.... (page 6)

NYKBocker wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

knickscity wrote:The Knicks are not stuopid enough to trade Shump for a rental of Redick.

We are talking about an outfit that let go a promising young PG for nothing.

He was a restricted free agent that signed a poison pill contract. Knicks couldn't resign him. Lots more stuff out there about the new cba that confirms this. Harden and Gay were moved from teams that were competing for a championship because of the cap. I have seen two articles that have said trade deadline will be quieter because teams are so afraid of taking on a big contract.

Money is nothing to Dolan. Especially when competing with the other team in Brooklyn

The entire complexion of the nba changes because of the new cba but the Knicks are immune to the changes? Ask Memphis and OKC fans if they like the new cba.

Explain to me how this affects the Knicks other than Dolan's wallet and ego or feelings.

CrushAlot is so caught up...when money ain't a thing act as he did during the Isiah era but now money is a thing. Trying to cite the new CBA only hurts his argument. The New CBA has made owners who previously said money is of no concern to me, a concern....in Dolan's case it was a decision that made him look at $10-15mil dollars differently than he used to when it came to matching Lin. Then he asked Walsh to take a 40% paycut after orchestrating moves that supposedly put the franchise in the best position it's ever been in, if you buy into his role in those decisions that is. You don't tell a high exec in New York to take a 40% pay cut, not one respected in NBA circles such as Walsh. But Dolan counts pennies differently these days this much is obvious.

No way this happens. Another thing, how would you feel if we did the trade and then Redick signed with another team in the offseason (as would be likely since he's already said he doesn't really like NY- someone's going to overpay him).

Knicks arent trading without guarantees. An extend and trade or no deal. Shumperr is under contract for 2 more years.

smackeddog wrote:No way this happens. Another thing, how would you feel if we did the trade and then Redick signed with another team in the offseason (as would be likely since he's already said he doesn't really like NY- someone's going to overpay him).

This

Suck on that for a minute

What do these EX-Knick players all have in common?

D.Harvey
L.Postell
M. VUJANIC
M.SWeetney
M.Lampe
S.Vranes
J.Hill
L.Fields
J.Lin
P.Ewing Jr.
I.Shumpert
A.Randolph
T.Mozgov
J.Harrellson

They were all extremely overrated by our fan base......

How about David Lee?

gunsnewing wrote:How about David Lee?

Well the ones that we underrate are the ones that are actually really good.

What does that tell you?

Swishfm3 wrote:What do these EX-Knick players all have in common?

D.Harvey
L.Postell
M. VUJANIC
M.SWeetney
M.Lampe
S.Vranes
J.Hill
L.Fields
J.Lin
P.Ewing Jr.
I.Shumpert
A.Randolph
T.Mozgov
J.Harrellson

They were all extremely overrated by our fan base......

In Postell's defense, he did back up his "outrageous" declaration that he could produce like Spree and Houston if given the pt. It was at the end of a dead season but, he put up the numbers like he said he could. Dude disappeared the following season and I haven't heard a thing about him since.

I think most everyone was unhappy with the Jordan Hill pick. I know I was...Donnies 1 majore f-up.

Moz, I don't think we overvalued him. He did good things and New Yorkers always pick their one loveable scrub simply because he plays hard. He was this generations TRavis Knight. The main reason we didn't want him in the trade is because he was our "best" big at the time which, says a lot about how bad we was

Slavo Vranes.....don't think anyone saw hm as anything but a tall dude.

Fields wasn't overvalued to start. His rookie stats were impressive and he should have been rookie of the year. Has anyone so young nose dived so steeply from one season to the next. Dude completely destroyed his shooting mechanics, lost all confidence and let his off the ball game suffer as a result.

gunsnewing wrote:How about David Lee?

my opinion...I think D.Lee exceeded everyones expectations. He may not be a great defender but he has been consistant on the offense end throughtout the years.

mrKnickShot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:How about David Lee?

Well the ones that we underrate are the ones that are actually really good.

What does that tell you?

Yea like Lin and Shumpert in 1-2yrs

gunsnewing wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:How about David Lee?

Well the ones that we underrate are the ones that are actually really good.

What does that tell you?

Yea like Lin and Shumpert in 1-2yrs

Lin was not underrated by the fans.

Shump is overrated by fans and always was, I don't think he will ever live up to it.

I think Lin is the only player in history to be both underrated and overrated at the same time.

Shump is our only player under 27 years of age. So he's litterally the only player of ours who's supposed to drastically improve in the next 4 years. We most definitely can't/shouldn't trade him for a JJ Redick rental.

I don't know about Jordan Lite, but I think Shumps potential and game (offense+defense) are most similar to Gary Payton. They're almost the same height too at 6'4"/6'5". And both are defensive players first and foremost. One thing Payton shares with Jordan is being the only guard to ever win the Defensive Player of the Year Award. I can see Shump evolving into that 3rd guard in NBA history to do that.

Look at Payton's first 3 seasons:

1st season, age 22:
27,4 MPG, 7 PPG, 45%FG, .077 3ptFG, 6,4 assists, 3 rebs, 2 stls
2nd season, age 23:
31,5 MPG, 9,4 PPG, 45% FG, .130 3ptFG, 6,2 assists, 3.6 rebs, 1.8 stls
3rd season, age 24:
31.1 MPG, 13,5PPG, 49% FG, .206 3ptFG, 4,9 assists, 3.4 rebs, 2.2 stls

Iman's first season, age 21:
28,9 MPG, 9,5 PPG, .40%FG, 30% 3ptFG, 2,8 assists, 3,2 rebs, 1,8 stls

If Shump was given the keys in the same fashion Payton was, his stats IMO would come very close to Payton's. Also, Shump is only 22 years old.. Still plenty of time for him to reach greater levels of play.

Those don't look remotely close to me. Payton was a far more efficient scorer and better passer. They both were good at getting steals, average rebounders, and low scorers. Those are hardly remarkable similarities.

We're not trading Shumpert, not for a shooter in Redick we're not. This kid, when healthy, can lockdown/guard the 1-3 position(s).

Jared Jeffries and coach Woodson had lots to do with it, but Iman Shumpert along with Tyson Chandler completely changed the entire culture of our New York Knicks defensive moving forward last season. Shumpert's only been back for 13 games here in 2012-2013 but that doesn't change the fact that Shumpert made a name for himself, as only a rookie, as being one of the strongest perimeter defenders in all of basketball last season. I'm not ready to quit on Shumpert, not after 13 games I'm not.

As Shumpert continues to return from injury, he has the potential to become our very own Scottie Pippen, Dennis Johnson, Joe Dumars, Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier, Andre Iguodala, Mike Conley and/or Tony Allen type of lockdown perimeter defender. You don't quit on Shumpert's defensive abilities, talents and/or potential after only 13 games back from injury. Not for a J.J Redick type of shooter you don't.

Shumpert has the heart and fight to become a New York City star. His love, fight and defensive pride is something in which I haven't seen since Starks on the defensive end from a Knick. Shumpert stays. And if we're to run into Miami during a potential Eastern Conference Finals; we'll be thankful that we're throwing out Shumpert on Wade for 4 quarters strong especially when compared to another shooter in Redick.

skeng wrote:Shump is our only player under 27 years of age. So he's litterally the only player of ours who's supposed to drastically improve in the next 4 years. We most definitely can't/shouldn't trade him for a JJ Redick rental.

I don't know about Jordan Lite, but I think Shumps potential and game (offense+defense) are most similar to Gary Payton. They're almost the same height too at 6'4"/6'5". And both are defensive players first and foremost. One thing Payton shares with Jordan is being the only guard to ever win the Defensive Player of the Year Award. I can see Shump evolving into that 3rd guard in NBA history to do that.

Look at Payton's first 3 seasons:

1st season, age 22:
27,4 MPG, 7 PPG, 45%FG, .077 3ptFG, 6,4 assists, 3 rebs, 2 stls
2nd season, age 23:
31,5 MPG, 9,4 PPG, 45% FG, .130 3ptFG, 6,2 assists, 3.6 rebs, 1.8 stls
3rd season, age 24:
31.1 MPG, 13,5PPG, 49% FG, .206 3ptFG, 4,9 assists, 3.4 rebs, 2.2 stls

Iman's first season, age 21:
28,9 MPG, 9,5 PPG, .40%FG, 30% 3ptFG, 2,8 assists, 3,2 rebs, 1,8 stls

If Shump was given the keys in the same fashion Payton was, his stats IMO would come very close to Payton's. Also, Shump is only 22 years old.. Still plenty of time for him to reach greater levels of play.

I like how you do the comma instead of the decimal point, very Euro of you,

Shump is a mix of Jordan VERY Lite and Payton

NYKMentality wrote:We're not trading Shumpert, not for a shooter in Redick we're not. This kid, when healthy, can lockdown/guard the 1-3 position(s).

Jared Jeffries and coach Woodson had lots to do with it, but Iman Shumpert along with Tyson Chandler completely changed the entire culture of our New York Knicks defensive moving forward last season. Shumpert's only been back for 13 games here in 2012-2013 but that doesn't change the fact that Shumpert made a name for himself, as only a rookie, as being one of the strongest perimeter defenders in all of basketball last season. I'm not ready to quit on Shumpert, not after 13 games I'm not.

As Shumpert continues to return from injury, he has the potential to become our very own Scottie Pippen, Dennis Johnson, Joe Dumars, Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier, Andre Iguodala, Mike Conley and/or Tony Allen type of lockdown perimeter defender. You don't quit on Shumpert's defensive abilities, talents and/or potential after only 13 games back from injury. Not for a J.J Redick type of shooter you don't.

Shumpert has the heart and fight to become a New York City star. His love, fight and defensive pride is something in which I haven't seen since Starks on the defensive end from a Knick. Shumpert stays. And if we're to run into Miami during a potential Eastern Conference Finals; we'll be thankful that we're throwing out Shumpert on Wade for 4 quarters strong especially when compared to another shooter in Redick.

I guess this press release proves that this trade is now dead

The Knicks have built this team to win this season or next season. There's no future beyond that. This is a win-now team. Waiting for Shumpert to recover from his injury and develop doesn't help the Knicks win right now, which is why rumors exist. The Knicks are the ones that chose to become the oldest team in the league. They are going for it all. If they think someone gives them a better chance of winning NOW then they'll make the deal.

JamesKPolk wrote:The Knicks have built this team to win this season or next season. There's no future beyond that.

What are you talking about?

Carmelo is only 28 years of age.

Shumpert will only be 24 years of age two years from today.

Amar'e Stoudemire will be off the books for $23,410,988 after the 2014/2015 season.

After the 2014/2015 season we could feature a 24-25 years of age Shumpert, 30-31 years of age Melo to continue building around, can re-sign Tyson Chandler for cheaper moving forward and we'll have enough cap space to impove our Knicks team left and right. Especially once Amar'e is off the books. Re-Sign Melo long term and our Knicks will contend for many of years to come. There is no future beyond that? Yea, o.k.

We may sign J.R Smith long term and guys such as Jason Kidd, Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace and Marcus Camby could all very well retire during the offseason. Which could amount to a boat load of cap space. No future? Says who? You?

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Shumpert's perceived value greatly outweighs his actual value. The Knicks need to dump him for a back-court player who can help more. It could be Reddick but doesn't have to be. They just need to find the GM who will pay the most out of a belief in Shumpert's upside.

Finally we see that people are realizing what we have been saying for a long time.

We usually overrate our young talent until we finally find out what the trade will be....then we start back pedaling and crapping on the young player given up.

except when we are corey brewered.

NYKMentality wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:The Knicks have built this team to win this season or next season. There's no future beyond that.

What are you talking about?

Carmelo is only 28 years of age.

Shumpert will only be 24 years of age two years from today.

Amar'e Stoudemire will be off the books for $23,410,988 after the 2014/2015 season.

After the 2014/2015 season we could feature a 24-25 years of age Shumpert, 30-31 years of age Melo to continue building around, can re-sign Tyson Chandler for cheaper moving forward and we'll have enough cap space to impove our Knicks team left and right. Especially once Amar'e is off the books. Re-Sign Melo long term and our Knicks will contend for many of years to come. There is no future beyond that? Yea, o.k.

We may sign J.R Smith long term and guys such as Jason Kidd, Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace and Marcus Camby could all very well retire during the offseason. Which could amount to a boat load of cap space. No future? Says who? You?

Says reality.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Carmelo will be 31 years old in 2015. He is not going to be better than he is right now, in the next 2 years. This is the top of his game. You try and win now with him because it will not get easier as he gets older, not with the rest of the team also getting older and/or retiring by that point. The Knicks didn't amass the oldest team in the league to plan for the future. They are in it to win now. No amount of homerific posts from you will change that.