Knicks · Not to go back and re-visit the actual trade, but lets take a closer look at our team pre-trade. (page 1)
JamesKPolk wrote: And he put together a young, talented team with cap room before the Anthony trade.
I'll agree to disagree. Everyone talks about our current Knicks being .500 over our past 28-29 games as some type of "mediocre team". Well, we're currently 32-20.
That team before the trade? The definition of mediocre. Only 28-26 overall after 54 games. Not sure how current Knick fans can harp over the Knicks playing .500 ball during our previous 28-29 games when that 2010-2011 Knicks team was only 2 games above .500 after 54 games...
But yea, that team wasn't even that talented (as some like to say).
What have guys such as Anthony Randolph and Timofey Mozgov done over the years? Better yet, where are players such as Roger Mason Jr, Bill Walker, Andy Rautins, Eddy Curry and Shawne Williams? Guys such as Toney Douglas and Ronny Turiaf? Talented? Not so much...
Randolph, Mozgov, Mason Jr, Curry, Walker, Williams, Douglas, Turiaf and Andy Rautins? Those 9 players were "talented" pre-trade?
I'll give you all Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari, but then again, those two players can't compare to J.R Smith and Carmelo Anthony. This myth about that pre-trade team being "talented" outside of four players in Felton, Stoudemire, Wilson and Gallo is a joke. More like a bold face lie...
Since that roster was oh so talented, please let us all know what player such as...
Anthony Randolph.
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.
Have A.) Done since leaving the Knicks and B.) Currently doing here in the NBA. Since that roster was "oh so talented" at 28-26 heading into the trade, please enlighten me what they've done and/or are currently doing in regards to these 9 talented players... If you all won't, trust me, I will. I'll take it one player at a time as well.
The current team sucks and has no hope to contend baring major injuries to the top teams.
We are cap strapped, no good picks in hands, with mediocre players, a bad coach and the ''Morons King'' as owner.
Stop fighting, let go, cause this season is already over.
The earlier you do it, the happier you will be.
raven wrote:Mate, you really have to let go.The current team sucks and has no hope to contend baring major injuries to the top teams.
We are cap strapped, no good picks in hands, with mediocre players, a bad coach and the ''Morons King'' as owner.
Stop fighting, let go, cause this season is already over.
The earlier you do it, the happier you will be.
I'm the one that needs to let it go? Nah, I'm just replying to the quote above. What's wrong, couldn't talk about the "talent" surrounding that pre-trade Knicks unit? Forget "talent", let's talk NBA production in regards to..
Anthony Randolph.
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.
I'll be waiting for some actual insight...
NYKMentality wrote:raven wrote:Mate, you really have to let go.The current team sucks and has no hope to contend baring major injuries to the top teams.
We are cap strapped, no good picks in hands, with mediocre players, a bad coach and the ''Morons King'' as owner.
Stop fighting, let go, cause this season is already over.
The earlier you do it, the happier you will be.
I'm the one that needs to let it go? Nah, I'm just replying to the quote above. What's wrong, couldn't talk about the "talent" surrounding that pre-trade Knicks unit? Forget "talent", let's talk NBA production in regards to..
Anthony Randolph.
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.I'll be waiting for some actual insight...
And what will you do when the current team fails again and get an early playoff exit?
Will you talk again about Anthony Randolph?
I liked you more when you could talk about the Knicks being 2nd seed in the East.
It seems time is on your side.
raven wrote:NYKMentality wrote:raven wrote:Mate, you really have to let go.The current team sucks and has no hope to contend baring major injuries to the top teams.
We are cap strapped, no good picks in hands, with mediocre players, a bad coach and the ''Morons King'' as owner.
Stop fighting, let go, cause this season is already over.
The earlier you do it, the happier you will be.
I'm the one that needs to let it go? Nah, I'm just replying to the quote above. What's wrong, couldn't talk about the "talent" surrounding that pre-trade Knicks unit? Forget "talent", let's talk NBA production in regards to..
Anthony Randolph.
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.I'll be waiting for some actual insight...
And what will you do when the current team fails again and get an early playoff exit?
Will you talk again about Anthony Randolph?I liked you more when you could talk about the Knicks being 2nd seed in the East.
It seems time is on your side.
It's not about this current team. We're currently the 3rd seed of the East despite injuries. That's not the point because only TIME WILL TELL how far this team goes. This thread is about the pre-team trade in which fans are in love with. Once again, in regards to these 9 "talents"
Anthony Randolph.
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.
What type of production A.) Have they put up since leaving the Knicks and B.) Currently doing here in 2012-2013?
If you're fearful of talking about, then don't talk about it and/or post within this thread. I'm trying to talk about the pre-trade team in which was only two games above .500 after 57 games...
smackeddog wrote:Anthony Randolph was such a huge disappointment. I thought it was huge that we traded David Lee for him, then to see him get no playing time and get traded for nothing (well as a means of getting rid of Eddy Curry). As he's accomplished nothing since and gotten no playing time with the Twolves or Nuggets, I guess he really does stink or make little effort in practice. I also though Azubuke would contribute something but the Warriors doctors botched his surgery. Essentially we got absolutely nothing for David Lee, when at the time it looked like we'd gotten a pretty good haul.
Exactly. Anthony Randolph is only one example of how weak that team truly was.
Over the past two seasons with Minny/Denver he's only managed to average 12.0 minutes per game, 5.5 points, 2.9 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 0.8 blocks, 0.3 steals, 1.4 personal fouls and 1.07 turnovers per game (56 games played/67 games missed with 0.00 minutes played).
For a 6'11/220+ NBA player? This is more than awful production. It's laughing stock basketball.
But yet, this is (one of) the same career nothings in which critics of the trade were full blown distraught about "losing".
But now that these critics are currently wrong as wrong could possible be? They no longer wish to talk about AR along with his average of 12.0 minutes, 5.5 points, 2.9 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 0.8 blocks, 0.3 steals, 1.4 personal fouls and 1.07 turnovers per game (56 games played/67 games missed) over the past two years with Minny and Denver... Pretty funny how it's worked out in regards to A-R.
Now that we've discussed A-R the fan favorite, can we also speak upon the likes of...
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.
Which one to nitpick and/or laugh at first?
Why not let the team current work justify itself.
They wanted no trades, just about every player has some connection to Melo.
The GM called a player coming off an acl tear "untouchable".
They talk championship.
They pre-melo team just wanted to make the playoffs.
tkf wrote:wow... at this thread...
Why?
Aren't you one of those posters who talked up Anthony Randolph while being distraught over on RealGM that we "lost" A-R?
Aren't you one of the same fans who talk up how "talented" our Pre-Trade team was?
You can talk about ex Knicks such as Jeremy Lin and the Rockets along with Gallo and the Nuggets TKF, you even go as far as freaking POSTING on their teams message boards, but yet... It's "wow" that I'm also talking about ex Knicks? The difference? It doesn't fit your little agenda, now does it?
Well, Anthony Randolph is down the drain. Career bust thus far. Nothing to talk about there. But which one should we nitpick and/or laugh at next?
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.
I mean, they were "talented" and/or productive... Right?
NYKMentality wrote:I'm so tired of ready posts/remarks such as the one below.JamesKPolk wrote: And he put together a young, talented team with cap room before the Anthony trade.I'll agree to disagree. Everyone talks about our current Knicks being .500 over our past 28-29 games as some type of "mediocre team". Well, we're currently 32-20.
That team before the trade? The definition of mediocre. Only 28-26 overall after 54 games. Not sure how current Knick fans can harp over the Knicks playing .500 ball during our previous 28-29 games when that 2010-2011 Knicks team was only 2 games above .500 after 54 games...
But yea, that team wasn't even that talented (as some like to say).
What have guys such as Anthony Randolph and Timofey Mozgov done over the years? Better yet, where are players such as Roger Mason Jr, Bill Walker, Andy Rautins, Eddy Curry and Shawne Williams? Guys such as Toney Douglas and Ronny Turiaf? Talented? Not so much...
Randolph, Mozgov, Mason Jr, Curry, Walker, Williams, Douglas, Turiaf and Andy Rautins? Those 9 players were "talented" pre-trade?
I'll give you all Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari, but then again, those two players can't compare to J.R Smith and Carmelo Anthony. This myth about that pre-trade team being "talented" outside of four players in Felton, Stoudemire, Wilson and Gallo is a joke. More like a bold face lie...
Since that roster was oh so talented, please let us all know what player such as...
Anthony Randolph.
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.Have A.) Done since leaving the Knicks and B.) Currently doing here in the NBA. Since that roster was "oh so talented" at 28-26 heading into the trade, please enlighten me what they've done and/or are currently doing in regards to these 9 talented players... If you all won't, trust me, I will. I'll take it one player at a time as well.
Wilson and Gallinari may not compare to Melo, I agree, but J.R? Seriously? Do you know there is a reason why Gallo got 40 million, Wilson got 30 million and JR got only 2 million in free agency.
holfresh wrote:NYKMent...Some how you think reasoning and the presentation of facts will change the minds of those who feel we were better off with Gallo and MDA...Its not happening...Move on...They thought Kidd was the MVP when we were winning and Melo is the reason why we are losing...Enjoy what the Knicks have to offer for the rest of the year...Lets hope Amare and Shrump steps up in some manner to make us competitive going into the playoffs..
Kidd's play has fallen way off as so his overall health and ability to play at a high level....every since we've looked like garbage regardless of how Anthony plays.
KnicksFE wrote:NYKMentality wrote:I'm so tired of ready posts/remarks such as the one below.JamesKPolk wrote: And he put together a young, talented team with cap room before the Anthony trade.I'll agree to disagree. Everyone talks about our current Knicks being .500 over our past 28-29 games as some type of "mediocre team". Well, we're currently 32-20.
That team before the trade? The definition of mediocre. Only 28-26 overall after 54 games. Not sure how current Knick fans can harp over the Knicks playing .500 ball during our previous 28-29 games when that 2010-2011 Knicks team was only 2 games above .500 after 54 games...
But yea, that team wasn't even that talented (as some like to say).
What have guys such as Anthony Randolph and Timofey Mozgov done over the years? Better yet, where are players such as Roger Mason Jr, Bill Walker, Andy Rautins, Eddy Curry and Shawne Williams? Guys such as Toney Douglas and Ronny Turiaf? Talented? Not so much...
Randolph, Mozgov, Mason Jr, Curry, Walker, Williams, Douglas, Turiaf and Andy Rautins? Those 9 players were "talented" pre-trade?
I'll give you all Wilson Chandler and Danilo Gallinari, but then again, those two players can't compare to J.R Smith and Carmelo Anthony. This myth about that pre-trade team being "talented" outside of four players in Felton, Stoudemire, Wilson and Gallo is a joke. More like a bold face lie...
Since that roster was oh so talented, please let us all know what player such as...
Anthony Randolph.
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.Have A.) Done since leaving the Knicks and B.) Currently doing here in the NBA. Since that roster was "oh so talented" at 28-26 heading into the trade, please enlighten me what they've done and/or are currently doing in regards to these 9 talented players... If you all won't, trust me, I will. I'll take it one player at a time as well.
Wilson and Gallinari may not compare to Melo, I agree, but J.R? Seriously? Do you know there is a reason why Gallo got 40 million, Wilson got 30 million and JR got only 2 million in free agency.
So now a players salary decides how good a player is? Nice to know. Tell that to Eddy Curry.
J.R Smith:$2,806,452. 0 games missed.. 16.0 points, 2.8 assists, 4.9 rebounds, 1.3 steals amd 1.5 turnovers per game. FG% of .400%.
Chandler: $5,930,415. 37 games missed. 9.7 points,, 0.7 assists, 5.3 rebounds, 0.9 steals and 1.1 turnovers per game. FG% of .387%.
I know who I'm taking for my 6th man off the bench. And it's not Wilson Chandler. Especially not at $5,930,415 dollars...
Wilson Chandler being paid $19,029,492 over the next three years is a laughing stock joke.
But yea, lets get back to the pre trade team. We've already laughed at Anthony Randolph. Now lets talk about the likes of...
Timofey Mozgov.
Roger Mason Jr.
Bill Walker.
Shawne Williams.
Toney Douglas.
Ronny Turiaf.
Andy Rautins.
Eddy Curry.
I mean lets be honest here... That pre-trade team was oh so "talented" and/or "productive"... Right? Well, what have they done since the trade and/or what are they currently doing here in 2012-2013?
3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:NYKMent...Some how you think reasoning and the presentation of facts will change the minds of those who feel we were better off with Gallo and MDA...Its not happening...Move on...They thought Kidd was the MVP when we were winning and Melo is the reason why we are losing...Enjoy what the Knicks have to offer for the rest of the year...Lets hope Amare and Shrump steps up in some manner to make us competitive going into the playoffs..Kidd's play has fallen way off as so his overall health and ability to play at a high level....every since we've looked like garbage regardless of how Anthony plays.
Kidd's play was important to the early success which included knocking down those open shots that Fields missed for three years...But there were more to the dynamic that has gone missing...Brewer's overall game was key which fell off the map and Sheed was key off the bench defensively and passing which helped our overall look..Felton's penetration was key but now dudes are missing those shot or not taking them like KIdd in the last game...We also just played much better defense but just stopped...We don't need Melo going back to hero ball of last year to get us to the playoffs...Hopefully Amare and Shrump could step in add something going into the post season...
holfresh wrote:3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:NYKMent...Some how you think reasoning and the presentation of facts will change the minds of those who feel we were better off with Gallo and MDA...Its not happening...Move on...They thought Kidd was the MVP when we were winning and Melo is the reason why we are losing...Enjoy what the Knicks have to offer for the rest of the year...Lets hope Amare and Shrump steps up in some manner to make us competitive going into the playoffs..Kidd's play has fallen way off as so his overall health and ability to play at a high level....every since we've looked like garbage regardless of how Anthony plays.
Kidd's play was important to the early success which included knocking down those open shots that Fields missed for three years...But there were more to the dynamic that has gone missing...Brewer's overall game was key which fell off the map and Sheed was key off the bench defensively and passing which helped our overall look..Felton's penetration was key but now dudes are missing those shot or not taking them like KIdd in the last game...We also just played much better defense but just stopped...We don't need Melo going back to hero ball of last year to get us to the playoffs...Hopefully Amare and Shrump could step in add something going into the post season...
Regardless Melo said deepest team he's been on which means if 1 soldier goes down or is incapable the other soldier should be there to step up.
The things you touched on speaks as to what was going on early in the season but most fans wanted to attribute all glory to Melo. It was truly an all-around TEAM performance.
I haven't blamed Melo too much as to why we're stinking now... I probably was on his case more when we were winning. I didn't like/never have liked his style of play nor the system we run to try and win games. Never thought it was sustainable and thus far it's proving more and more to be true.
I believe I've had Melo somewhere around 4-6th in MVP race all year.... I bet that's where he finishes
I am ashamed to be posting in this thread.
I enjoy reading a lot of what you post as you add some perspectives that I miss due to all the pain us Knicks fans seem to have to endure, which causes us to miss the little good that does happen. I just am not really gun-ho about this team. We are a balancing act in a sense, regarding injuries and such. We do have talent but I just wonder if we can play good enough D and stay healthy come the playoffs. Here's hoping and I'm not giving up hope, but what is happening now (and for the last two months) is not at all shocking for me. I called it (as others did) when we didn't resign Lin (The best thing to happen to this team since....)
3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:3G4G wrote:holfresh wrote:NYKMent...Some how you think reasoning and the presentation of facts will change the minds of those who feel we were better off with Gallo and MDA...Its not happening...Move on...They thought Kidd was the MVP when we were winning and Melo is the reason why we are losing...Enjoy what the Knicks have to offer for the rest of the year...Lets hope Amare and Shrump steps up in some manner to make us competitive going into the playoffs..Kidd's play has fallen way off as so his overall health and ability to play at a high level....every since we've looked like garbage regardless of how Anthony plays.
Kidd's play was important to the early success which included knocking down those open shots that Fields missed for three years...But there were more to the dynamic that has gone missing...Brewer's overall game was key which fell off the map and Sheed was key off the bench defensively and passing which helped our overall look..Felton's penetration was key but now dudes are missing those shot or not taking them like KIdd in the last game...We also just played much better defense but just stopped...We don't need Melo going back to hero ball of last year to get us to the playoffs...Hopefully Amare and Shrump could step in add something going into the post season...
Regardless Melo said deepest team he's been on which means if 1 soldier goes down or is incapable the other soldier should be there to step up.
The things you touched on speaks as to what was going on early in the season but most fans wanted to attribute all glory to Melo. It was truly an all-around TEAM performance.
I haven't blamed Melo too much as to why we're stinking now... I probably was on his case more when we were winning. I didn't like/never have liked his style of play nor the system we run to try and win games. Never thought it was sustainable and thus far it's proving more and more to be true.
I believe I've had Melo somewhere around 4-6th in MVP race all year.... I bet that's where he finishes
Let's not kid ourselves..Melo was the straw that stirred the drink...Melo was the major reason we were winning...But Kidd was making the extra pass which became infectious...I disagree with most who said the Knicks relied on the three point shot to win..I thought they were simply taking the open shot after good ball movement...Those shots aren't falling now and the ball isn't moving...People want to blame Melo, but honestly who cares, watch the games and see whats going on...I really don't care about MVP races either...It's all about how the team is playing at the end of the season...Crazy thing is, I have seen teams flounder like the Knicks are now and figure things out in the first round...I really don't want to get to the playoffs playing like this...
One thing tho..I don't get the 24/7/365 focus on Melo...MVP race or not, he is having a great year...People here expect him and him alone to take down Bron, Wade and Bosh...And if he doesn't, it's I told you so...I think it's comedy...