Knicks · Putting the Dolan reign in perspective, a reason for optimism (page 2)

James Dolan is the worst owner in sports.

it's not a question of relative inexperience.

it's a question of lack of character.

sidsanders wrote:most new yankee fans only have good memories of "the george". those of us who recall the 80s and early 90 yankees considered him among the worst owners in sports (i know i did). winning sure turned around his fortunes. knicks go out and win, folks will let go a bit.

Papabear Says

George won only because he had no cap. He could out spend everyone else. If the NBA had no cap the Knicks hands down would be champs because we are the riches team in the NBA. Dolan would look like a hero. Look at all the mistakes the Yankees made but they had the money to spend buy out a player if it didn't work out.

Dolan owns 2 major clubs - Knicks and Rangers.
Rangers are doing well... since Dolan get fed up with Hockey and left them alone.
Knicks are screwed until Jimmy will fed up with bbal... if ever.
He is egocentric moron who think that he is the center of the world.
On op of this he is paranoid dictator.
Not sure why any decent free American will want to be around this pile of sht.
No wonder that what we see is what we get.

JamesKPolk wrote:James Dolan is the worst owner in sports.

Papabear Says

So what! What are you going to do about it. Only Dolan can get this straight. And you know he ain't going nowhere. So let's hope moving foward he makes better decisions.

Papabear wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:James Dolan is the worst owner in sports.

Papabear Says

So what! What are you going to do about it. Only Dolan can get this straight. And you know he ain't going nowhere. So let's hope moving foward he makes better decisions.

Every man is going to die...

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:Dolan ran Checketts out, Allowed Ewing to run the franchise, hired Layden, fired Layden, Hired Isiah, Extended isiah, Made Isiah coach, ran walsh out, depleted roster assets to get Melo (draft picks still yet to materialize) and pandered to Nyet invasion.

Nalod might be not right in the head a lot, but he got his Dolan timeline pretty good.

I would love to be wrong!

I thought Checketts left for bigger and better things...He left to run the Olympics?? and Checketts was the one who put Layden in place..Layden was Checketts' underling...Checketts was in charge of everything Garden..He traded Patrick...

Nope

Papabear wrote:

sidsanders wrote:most new yankee fans only have good memories of "the george". those of us who recall the 80s and early 90 yankees considered him among the worst owners in sports (i know i did). winning sure turned around his fortunes. knicks go out and win, folks will let go a bit.

Papabear Says

George won only because he had no cap. He could out spend everyone else. If the NBA had no cap the Knicks hands down would be champs because we are the riches team in the NBA. Dolan would look like a hero. Look at all the mistakes the Yankees made but they had the money to spend buy out a player if it didn't work out.

the basis of the 90s yankee run was home grown talent then FA adds and solid trades. that was my point there -- he couldnt meddle and trade away jeter or rivera, etc, and go crazy with silly contracts.

dolan teams did spend tons of money though. the knicks had the highest payroll around and won nothing, and routinely lost 50 with it. spending $ alone != success in any sport. spending it wisely will make a diff though. the knicks have had poor mgmt and made poor choices with their money.

sidsanders wrote:

Papabear wrote:

sidsanders wrote:most new yankee fans only have good memories of "the george". those of us who recall the 80s and early 90 yankees considered him among the worst owners in sports (i know i did). winning sure turned around his fortunes. knicks go out and win, folks will let go a bit.

Papabear Says

George won only because he had no cap. He could out spend everyone else. If the NBA had no cap the Knicks hands down would be champs because we are the riches team in the NBA. Dolan would look like a hero. Look at all the mistakes the Yankees made but they had the money to spend buy out a player if it didn't work out.

the basis of the 90s yankee run was home grown talent then FA adds and solid trades. that was my point there -- he couldnt meddle and trade away jeter or rivera, etc, and go crazy with silly contracts.

dolan teams did spend tons of money though. the knicks had the highest payroll around and won nothing, and routinely lost 50 with it. spending $ alone != success in any sport. spending it wisely will make a diff though. the knicks have had poor mgmt and made poor choices with their money.

Papabear Says

True in the 90s they had home grown teams. They also had a minor league system. The knick did not. They were also the highest bidders on lots of talent from other teams. Just having a farm system is a big advantage. You can't compare that to the Knicks. Next!

Papabear wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Papabear wrote:

sidsanders wrote:most new yankee fans only have good memories of "the george". those of us who recall the 80s and early 90 yankees considered him among the worst owners in sports (i know i did). winning sure turned around his fortunes. knicks go out and win, folks will let go a bit.

Papabear Says

George won only because he had no cap. He could out spend everyone else. If the NBA had no cap the Knicks hands down would be champs because we are the riches team in the NBA. Dolan would look like a hero. Look at all the mistakes the Yankees made but they had the money to spend buy out a player if it didn't work out.

the basis of the 90s yankee run was home grown talent then FA adds and solid trades. that was my point there -- he couldnt meddle and trade away jeter or rivera, etc, and go crazy with silly contracts.

dolan teams did spend tons of money though. the knicks had the highest payroll around and won nothing, and routinely lost 50 with it. spending $ alone != success in any sport. spending it wisely will make a diff though. the knicks have had poor mgmt and made poor choices with their money.

Papabear Says

True in the 90s they had home grown teams. They also had a minor league system. The knick did not. They were also the highest bidders on lots of talent from other teams. Just having a farm system is a big advantage. You can't compare that to the Knicks. Next!

that wasnt the point, a comparison of teams. it was on george being a terrible owner who while forced to step away, had his team redeem itself. this lead to folks cutting him slack over the years. dolan is in the same boat now as steinbrenner was pre-ban. he is reviled and while it seems like that will never change, he has the george model that can give him hope he wont be looked at the same forever.

it does start with winning most likely, and with dolan not being banned by the nba. so he wont get a full steinbrenner route...

IronWillGiroud wrote:Guy's been running the show for only 10 years,

if you really think about it, he's only made two mistakes so far, those are: sticking with Isiah for the larger part of the 2000s and then throwing the Walsh rebuild to the dust bins of history for Melo,

that's really 2 giant mistakes, it's not like he's been at it for 30 years,

if we look at the next 10 or 20 years, we can hold out hope that Dolan will learn from these experiences and maybe trust the basketball minds more in the future,

What we should be collectively looking forward to is an expedited resolution to the Melo Mistake,

then Jimmy will have opportunity to right the ship,

Third time is a charm right??

Now if our NEXT big shake and bake follows in the footsteps of the first two, we will have a grave situation,

I don't think this is a numbers thing. You can make it not sound very bad by saying 2 mistakes in 10 years, but is that really truthful math?
There is the initial hiring of Thomas - 1 mistake, but then there was the keeping him here and bad trade after bad signing (Dolan checks off on things). This wasn't just 2 mistakes, it was repeated mistakes.

Throwing Walsh's work out the window, yeah, that is one mistake, but so was Hiroshima. It's like "I dated her for 10 years but only made two mistakes! Yeah, the first one gave her aids and the 2nd time killed her. But just two mistakes.". Don't make this into a logical game. The severity of the mistakes and their continuation speaks volumes.

We can make this into a mind game and use slick language, smiles, press conferences, "expert opinions" sponsored by MSG, manipulate statistics, etc. But our hearts and experiences as fans tell a quite different story. Perhaps in the next few years the owner will once again make a public statement to us common folk.

IronWillGiroud wrote:Guy's been running the show for only 10 years,

if you really think about it, he's only made two mistakes so far, those are: sticking with Isiah for the larger part of the 2000s and then throwing the Walsh rebuild to the dust bins of history for Melo,

that's really 2 giant mistakes, it's not like he's been at it for 30 years,

if we look at the next 10 or 20 years, we can hold out hope that Dolan will learn from these experiences and maybe trust the basketball minds more in the future,

What we should be collectively looking forward to is an expedited resolution to the Melo Mistake,

then Jimmy will have opportunity to right the ship,

Third time is a charm right??

Now if our NEXT big shake and bake follows in the footsteps of the first two, we will have a grave situation,

Oh WOW.. I am speechless. So getting a D- is passing for you and you're okay to reward your kids a brand new car for passing that class huh? I don't even know where to begin to tell you all the things Jimmy Dol have done wrong for the team.. it's like holocaust-level. Jimmy Dol was never interested in sports. He doesn't even know how to explain in details how each sports work and strategies and stuff. All he wanted was having his rich dad give him some team to toy with. He's a musician-wannabe, and that's all he ever was. If the commissioner of several sports all not denying the stupidity level of this inbred cornflake scratch, then I think it is a sure bet Jimmy Dol is not fit for sports team ownership, solid sure.

IronWillGiroud wrote:Guy's been running the show for only 10 years,

if you really think about it, he's only made two mistakes so far, those are: sticking with Isiah for the larger part of the 2000s and then throwing the Walsh rebuild to the dust bins of history for Melo,

that's really 2 giant mistakes, it's not like he's been at it for 30 years,

if we look at the next 10 or 20 years, we can hold out hope that Dolan will learn from these experiences and maybe trust the basketball minds more in the future,

What we should be collectively looking forward to is an expedited resolution to the Melo Mistake,

then Jimmy will have opportunity to right the ship,

Third time is a charm right??

Now if our NEXT big shake and bake follows in the footsteps of the first two, we will have a grave situation,

10 years running a team is not long? Compare Mark Cubans ownership to Dolans. A championship and a bunch of 50-60 win team s another finals 3 ECF's so really its no comparison Dolan is the worst owner in sports

sidsanders wrote:most new yankee fans only have good memories of "the george". those of us who recall the 80s and early 90 yankees considered him among the worst owners in sports (i know i did). winning sure turned around his fortunes. knicks go out and win, folks will let go a bit.

ACTUALLY George getting banned from baseball turned around the yankees fortunes... when he was banned, the baseball minds rebuilt with youth and quality vets... in came the jimmy key's Tim raines, david cone and other solid vets.. then they added the Jeter's, the Bernie Williams, Mo Rivera's, Andy Pettite, etc...

George was sucessful in the 70's when he was able to starphuch guys like Reggie jackson here.. it worked, as the yankees won world series in both 77 and 78....

Papabear wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:James Dolan is the worst owner in sports.

Papabear Says

So what! What are you going to do about it. Only Dolan can get this straight. And you know he ain't going nowhere. So let's hope moving foward he makes better decisions.

Unclebear Says

Only way he probably makes better decisions if people stop attending knicks game

JamesLin wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Guy's been running the show for only 10 years,

if you really think about it, he's only made two mistakes so far, those are: sticking with Isiah for the larger part of the 2000s and then throwing the Walsh rebuild to the dust bins of history for Melo,

that's really 2 giant mistakes, it's not like he's been at it for 30 years,

if we look at the next 10 or 20 years, we can hold out hope that Dolan will learn from these experiences and maybe trust the basketball minds more in the future,

What we should be collectively looking forward to is an expedited resolution to the Melo Mistake,

then Jimmy will have opportunity to right the ship,

Third time is a charm right??

Now if our NEXT big shake and bake follows in the footsteps of the first two, we will have a grave situation,

Oh WOW.. I am speechless. So getting a D- is passing for you and you're okay to reward your kids a brand new car for passing that class huh? I don't even know where to begin to tell you all the things Jimmy Dol have done wrong for the team.. it's like holocaust-level. Jimmy Dol was never interested in sports. He doesn't even know how to explain in details how each sports work and strategies and stuff. All he wanted was having his rich dad give him some team to toy with. He's a musician-wannabe, and that's all he ever was. If the commissioner of several sports all not denying the stupidity level of this inbred cornflake scratch, then I think it is a sure bet Jimmy Dol is not fit for sports team ownership, solid sure.

I agree with you on everything, and I've been just about the harshest critic of this team since the Melo trade, many years ago I foresaw the disaster we're looking at today,

All I'm trying to do is see the silver lining here, and the silver lining is that if we look at this franchise over a 30 or 40 year time frame, we can hold out some hope that Dolan will correct his approach,

over a 30 or 40 year frame, the last 10 years is like the very early, or rookie, part of his ownership career, and really I know it's really been one mistake compounded on top of another, but on the macro level we can follow the bread crumbs to only Two Original Mistakes: the Isiah era and the squandering of the Walsh rebuild

IronWillGiroud wrote:

JamesLin wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Guy's been running the show for only 10 years,

if you really think about it, he's only made two mistakes so far, those are: sticking with Isiah for the larger part of the 2000s and then throwing the Walsh rebuild to the dust bins of history for Melo,

that's really 2 giant mistakes, it's not like he's been at it for 30 years,

if we look at the next 10 or 20 years, we can hold out hope that Dolan will learn from these experiences and maybe trust the basketball minds more in the future,

What we should be collectively looking forward to is an expedited resolution to the Melo Mistake,

then Jimmy will have opportunity to right the ship,

Third time is a charm right??

Now if our NEXT big shake and bake follows in the footsteps of the first two, we will have a grave situation,

Oh WOW.. I am speechless. So getting a D- is passing for you and you're okay to reward your kids a brand new car for passing that class huh? I don't even know where to begin to tell you all the things Jimmy Dol have done wrong for the team.. it's like holocaust-level. Jimmy Dol was never interested in sports. He doesn't even know how to explain in details how each sports work and strategies and stuff. All he wanted was having his rich dad give him some team to toy with. He's a musician-wannabe, and that's all he ever was. If the commissioner of several sports all not denying the stupidity level of this inbred cornflake scratch, then I think it is a sure bet Jimmy Dol is not fit for sports team ownership, solid sure.

I agree with you on everything, and I've been just about the harshest critic of this team since the Melo trade, many years ago I foresaw the disaster we're looking at today,

All I'm trying to do is see the silver lining here, and the silver lining is that if we look at this franchise over a 30 or 40 year time frame, we can hold out some hope that Dolan will correct his approach,

over a 30 or 40 year frame, the last 10 years is like the very early, or rookie, part of his ownership career, and really I know it's really been one mistake compounded on top of another, but on the macro level we can follow the bread crumbs to only Two Original Mistakes: the Isiah era and the squandering of the Walsh rebuild

This is the same as applying Technical market analysts to Flee-market in Kabul...

IronWillGiroud wrote:
All I'm trying to do is see the silver lining here, and the silver lining is that if we look at this franchise over a 30 or 40 year time frame, we can hold out some hope that Dolan will correct his approach,

over a 30 or 40 year frame, the last 10 years is like the very early, or rookie, part of his ownership career, and really I know it's really been one mistake compounded on top of another, but on the macro level we can follow the bread crumbs to only Two Original Mistakes: the Isiah era and the squandering of the Walsh rebuild

I think the realistic 30-40 year plan is to wait for Dolan to DIE

knickstorrents wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:
All I'm trying to do is see the silver lining here, and the silver lining is that if we look at this franchise over a 30 or 40 year time frame, we can hold out some hope that Dolan will correct his approach,

over a 30 or 40 year frame, the last 10 years is like the very early, or rookie, part of his ownership career, and really I know it's really been one mistake compounded on top of another, but on the macro level we can follow the bread crumbs to only Two Original Mistakes: the Isiah era and the squandering of the Walsh rebuild

I think the realistic 30-40 year plan is to wait for Dolan to DIE

It's pretty harsh, but I think it's crossed every knick fan's mind at least once in their lives.

arkrud wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

JamesLin wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:Guy's been running the show for only 10 years,

if you really think about it, he's only made two mistakes so far, those are: sticking with Isiah for the larger part of the 2000s and then throwing the Walsh rebuild to the dust bins of history for Melo,

that's really 2 giant mistakes, it's not like he's been at it for 30 years,

if we look at the next 10 or 20 years, we can hold out hope that Dolan will learn from these experiences and maybe trust the basketball minds more in the future,

What we should be collectively looking forward to is an expedited resolution to the Melo Mistake,

then Jimmy will have opportunity to right the ship,

Third time is a charm right??

Now if our NEXT big shake and bake follows in the footsteps of the first two, we will have a grave situation,

Oh WOW.. I am speechless. So getting a D- is passing for you and you're okay to reward your kids a brand new car for passing that class huh? I don't even know where to begin to tell you all the things Jimmy Dol have done wrong for the team.. it's like holocaust-level. Jimmy Dol was never interested in sports. He doesn't even know how to explain in details how each sports work and strategies and stuff. All he wanted was having his rich dad give him some team to toy with. He's a musician-wannabe, and that's all he ever was. If the commissioner of several sports all not denying the stupidity level of this inbred cornflake scratch, then I think it is a sure bet Jimmy Dol is not fit for sports team ownership, solid sure.

I agree with you on everything, and I've been just about the harshest critic of this team since the Melo trade, many years ago I foresaw the disaster we're looking at today,

All I'm trying to do is see the silver lining here, and the silver lining is that if we look at this franchise over a 30 or 40 year time frame, we can hold out some hope that Dolan will correct his approach,

over a 30 or 40 year frame, the last 10 years is like the very early, or rookie, part of his ownership career, and really I know it's really been one mistake compounded on top of another, but on the macro level we can follow the bread crumbs to only Two Original Mistakes: the Isiah era and the squandering of the Walsh rebuild

This is the same as applying Technical market analysts to Flee-market in Kabul...

hahahahah