Knicks · K-Mart versus Amare (page 1)
Is it just me or does Amare seem like a stiff when compared to Martin. I'm strictly referring to movement on the court. Martin looks more fluid and explosive.
When you are playing for a coach that doesn't teach defense, and a HOF point guard that puts the ball exactly where you need it, you really don't have to use much skill, other than your natural born athleticism.
Well, now you can see what Amari looks like without his athleticism.
Don't forget another thing....Kenyon Martin was the number1 pick in his draft for a reason. Put both of them at athletic peak, and Martin is still the better athlete.
Kmart always played very good, physical, athletic defense. That always was his trademark. So, even he had fallen off a bit, I'd expected the defense to be good (it's like Amare's offense -- in his DNA). What's been surprising is how strong his offense has been. I honestly don't expect him to keep it up (it doesn't make sense that he'd shoot a career high % at 35), but he doesn't need to in order to be very useful for us.
I'm happy with him anchoring the D and scoring 5-10 points on 50% shooting in 25 mins a game. That totally changes the character of the team, and, imo, is more useful than amare scoring 15-20 ppg on 55% shooting in the same 25 mins while playing putrid d.
NBA Comparison: Rasheed Wallace
Strengths: Freakish athleticism. Plays way above the rim. Great shot blocker, rebounder. Offensive game is vastly improved. Can post up and take his man off the dribble. Excells in crunchtime as witnessed versus DePaul. Strong character.
Kenyon has developed his overall game tremendously and can now do it all. He can score facing the basket or posting up and is probably the most intimidating presence in the game today. Kenyon often blocks shots at their pinnacle, something Wilt Chamberlain used to do and something very few players are able to do on a regular basis. He takes goal tending calls sometimes but the plays are very effective in sending his opponent a message.
How quick we soon forget. I don't care who he played for, he was the best athlete / player in his draft, with a proven 4 year college career.
Amari started with High school fundamentals! Theres only a few NBA players out of high school that reached a superstar level in the NBA. Most of them come in with great expectations, but never reach their potential. Amari was great in MDA's system with a HOF point guard. Martin was great in any system and With or without a HOF pg.
Martin is also 6'8 on a good day.
Amari is 6'11
Smaller guys will always look more fluent....or I should say taller guys will mostlikely look stiffer. Durant is 1 exception, but for the majority it's still true.
jrodmc wrote:that short j looks anything but fluid, but .627 is hard to argue with...
It's crazy that his form hasn't changed....But when your shot is that ugly, you have all the time in the world to aim your shot. Since nobody is guarding you.
One good thing about Martin and Tyson is that they have great hands and high FG% around the rim. So when they double Melo, which all teams will do often, regardless who's around him....They will either leave Martin or Tyson open down low or a 3 pt shooter open up top.
With Martin or Tyson crashing the offensive boards. Must be nice to get paid millions to be a garbage (clean up) man.....
blkexec wrote:http://nbadraft.net/players/kenyon-marti...NBA Comparison: Rasheed Wallace
Strengths: Freakish athleticism. Plays way above the rim. Great shot blocker, rebounder. Offensive game is vastly improved. Can post up and take his man off the dribble. Excells in crunchtime as witnessed versus DePaul. Strong character.
Kenyon has developed his overall game tremendously and can now do it all. He can score facing the basket or posting up and is probably the most intimidating presence in the game today. Kenyon often blocks shots at their pinnacle, something Wilt Chamberlain used to do and something very few players are able to do on a regular basis. He takes goal tending calls sometimes but the plays are very effective in sending his opponent a message.
How quick we soon forget. I don't care who he played for, he was the best athlete / player in his draft, with a proven 4 year college career.
Amari started with High school fundamentals! Theres only a few NBA players out of high school that reached a superstar level in the NBA. Most of them come in with great expectations, but never reach their potential. Amari was great in MDA's system with a HOF point guard. Martin was great in any system and With or without a HOF pg.
Martin is also 6'8 on a good day.
Amari is 6'11
Smaller guys will always look more fluent....or I should say taller guys will mostlikely look stiffer. Durant is 1 exception, but for the majority it's still true.
What about the Dream?
Dagger wrote:blkexec wrote:http://nbadraft.net/players/kenyon-marti...NBA Comparison: Rasheed Wallace
Strengths: Freakish athleticism. Plays way above the rim. Great shot blocker, rebounder. Offensive game is vastly improved. Can post up and take his man off the dribble. Excells in crunchtime as witnessed versus DePaul. Strong character.
Kenyon has developed his overall game tremendously and can now do it all. He can score facing the basket or posting up and is probably the most intimidating presence in the game today. Kenyon often blocks shots at their pinnacle, something Wilt Chamberlain used to do and something very few players are able to do on a regular basis. He takes goal tending calls sometimes but the plays are very effective in sending his opponent a message.
How quick we soon forget. I don't care who he played for, he was the best athlete / player in his draft, with a proven 4 year college career.
Amari started with High school fundamentals! Theres only a few NBA players out of high school that reached a superstar level in the NBA. Most of them come in with great expectations, but never reach their potential. Amari was great in MDA's system with a HOF point guard. Martin was great in any system and With or without a HOF pg.
Martin is also 6'8 on a good day.
Amari is 6'11
Smaller guys will always look more fluent....or I should say taller guys will mostlikely look stiffer. Durant is 1 exception, but for the majority it's still true.
What about the Dream?
Well...anybody that plays soccer should be fluent on the court....at any size!
But there is only 1 Dream, in this long NBA history. I was talking about the majority!
Which one would you rather have as a starter?
Keep in mind, Brewer was our starting SF during that 18-5 stretch.
The difference is Kmart can guard all the same players as Brewer, plus all PF and most Centers.....
If Woody had the confidence in starting Brewer, then it's a no brainer to start Kmart.
AnubisADL wrote:I wish Amare could defend like Martin. Seeing as he is making 20 million.Is it just me or does Amare seem like a stiff when compared to Martin. I'm strictly referring to movement on the court. Martin looks more fluid and explosive.
Defensively? Yes. Offensively? No. Amar'e in his short stint with us this season looked far more fluid in the low post than Martin ever has. The same goes for their face-up games.
bernard wrote:KMart hasn't had the injury issues Amare has had. Even back during the first year w/ the Knicks, Amare looked like a freak athlete. Remember how he used to dunk every time he got near the hole? Just powered through the defense. Super explosive. He just doesn't have that explosiveness anymore. He still can score, but without the athleticism, his always suspect defense is really awful. He used to pick up a few blocks and big rebounds a game just through his athleticism. Without it, and without defensive insticts, savvy or know-how, he goes from being a weak defender to one of the worst pf/c defenders in the league.Martin has had micro fracture surgery on both knees. He is the first player to ever play after having that surgery on both knees. Maybe he had a better surgeon but he is a bit of a medical miracle. I also think he was older then Amare and Micro fracture surgery is supposed to be more effective on younger guys.Kmart always played very good, physical, athletic defense. That always was his trademark. So, even he had fallen off a bit, I'd expected the defense to be good (it's like Amare's offense -- in his DNA). What's been surprising is how strong his offense has been. I honestly don't expect him to keep it up (it doesn't make sense that he'd shoot a career high % at 35), but he doesn't need to in order to be very useful for us.
I'm happy with him anchoring the D and scoring 5-10 points on 50% shooting in 25 mins a game. That totally changes the character of the team, and, imo, is more useful than amare scoring 15-20 ppg on 55% shooting in the same 25 mins while playing putrid d.
blkexec wrote:MDA taught Amare everything he knows. Since Amare never played college ball, his first few years in the NBA was key to his career development and fundamentals.When you are playing for a coach that doesn't teach defense, and a HOF point guard that puts the ball exactly where you need it, you really don't have to use much skill, other than your natural born athleticism.
Well, now you can see what Amari looks like without his athleticism.
Don't forget another thing....Kenyon Martin was the number1 pick in his draft for a reason. Put both of them at athletic peak, and Martin is still the better athlete.
I've discussed this before, but Amar'e has had MANY good defensive coaches and teammates in his NBA life and absolutely ZERO excuse for his poor defense. This idea that Amar'e plays poor D because of MDA is ludicrous.
Amar'e had Frank Johnson and his staff for 2 training camps 2002-03 and 2003-04
MDA for 2004-05, 2005-06 Amar'e was injured, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2010-11 NY
Terry Porter training camp in 2008-09
Alvin Gentry training camp in 2009-10
Mike Woodson 2011-12, 2012-13
The only one responsible for Amar'e playing poor D is Amar'e.
nixluva wrote:blkexec wrote:MDA taught Amare everything he knows. Since Amare never played college ball, his first few years in the NBA was key to his career development and fundamentals.When you are playing for a coach that doesn't teach defense, and a HOF point guard that puts the ball exactly where you need it, you really don't have to use much skill, other than your natural born athleticism.
Well, now you can see what Amari looks like without his athleticism.
Don't forget another thing....Kenyon Martin was the number1 pick in his draft for a reason. Put both of them at athletic peak, and Martin is still the better athlete.
I've discussed this before, but Amar'e has had MANY good defensive coaches and teammates in his NBA life and absolutely ZERO excuse for his poor defense. This idea that Amar'e plays poor D because of MDA is ludicrous.
Amar'e had Frank Johnson and his staff for 2 training camps 2002-03 and 2003-04
MDA for 2004-05, 2005-06 Amar'e was injured, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2010-11 NY
Terry Porter training camp in 2008-09
Alvin Gentry training camp in 2009-10
Mike Woodson 2011-12, 2012-13The only one responsible for Amar'e playing poor D is Amar'e.
Improving your defensive IQ doesn't come from training camp. You have to actually play the game and hope you have a head coach that specializes in defense. Otherwise it's just something that comes naturally. When you are in HS, and the biggest kid around, you don't have to try very hard to play defense or offense. But in college, you have guys your size....Being big is not good enough....You have to develop more fundamentals.
I still believe if Amari went to college, he would've been ahead of his current development. Compared to Kenyon Martin who played all 4 yrs and has a natural gift for defensive instincts. So he got a double dose of defensive fundamentals, and actually used those skills against guys his size or bigger.
Training camp is used to build team chemistry, understand coaches philosophy, and improve your conditioning. Not to develop defensive instincts or basic fundamentals (you are expected to know that already at the NBA level).
Regardless of what you learn in training camp, as a rookie, you will lean on your strengths, not your weaknesses. That comes later in your career! Sometimes it comes too late, as in Amari's case, since he's now battling injuries and cant stay healthy enough to use his new offensive weapons, or Woody's defensive strategies....
Has kmart ever (maybe one year with the nets i think) been an all star, now that amare is battling injuries you want to compare the 2. Neither one is a 2 way player, they both bring something to the table, now it's up to woody to put them in a postion to be successful
blkexec wrote:nixluva wrote:blkexec wrote:MDA taught Amare everything he knows. Since Amare never played college ball, his first few years in the NBA was key to his career development and fundamentals.When you are playing for a coach that doesn't teach defense, and a HOF point guard that puts the ball exactly where you need it, you really don't have to use much skill, other than your natural born athleticism.
Well, now you can see what Amari looks like without his athleticism.
Don't forget another thing....Kenyon Martin was the number1 pick in his draft for a reason. Put both of them at athletic peak, and Martin is still the better athlete.
I've discussed this before, but Amar'e has had MANY good defensive coaches and teammates in his NBA life and absolutely ZERO excuse for his poor defense. This idea that Amar'e plays poor D because of MDA is ludicrous.
Amar'e had Frank Johnson and his staff for 2 training camps 2002-03 and 2003-04
MDA for 2004-05, 2005-06 Amar'e was injured, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2010-11 NY
Terry Porter training camp in 2008-09
Alvin Gentry training camp in 2009-10
Mike Woodson 2011-12, 2012-13The only one responsible for Amar'e playing poor D is Amar'e.
Improving your defensive IQ doesn't come from training camp. You have to actually play the game and hope you have a head coach that specializes in defense. Otherwise it's just something that comes naturally. When you are in HS, and the biggest kid around, you don't have to try very hard to play defense or offense. But in college, you have guys your size....Being big is not good enough....You have to develop more fundamentals.
I still believe if Amari went to college, he would've been ahead of his current development. Compared to Kenyon Martin who played all 4 yrs and has a natural gift for defensive instincts. So he got a double dose of defensive fundamentals, and actually used those skills against guys his size or bigger.
Training camp is used to build team chemistry, understand coaches philosophy, and improve your conditioning. Not to develop defensive instincts or basic fundamentals (you are expected to know that already at the NBA level).
Regardless of what you learn in training camp, as a rookie, you will lean on your strengths, not your weaknesses. That comes later in your career! Sometimes it comes too late, as in Amari's case, since he's now battling injuries and cant stay healthy enough to use his new offensive weapons, or Woody's defensive strategies....
I hate to say this but you dont' know what you're talking about!!! Teams do in fact go over basics in Training Camp. Both Condition and skills drills for offense and defense. It's also when they put in the defensive scheme and how they plan on attacking teams defensively and offensively. I don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Amar'e has had enough different coaches who have all had to explain to the team what the defensive rotations are and how they want to actually deal with different types of sets, PnR, Post ups etc. Teams go over just about every scenario and how they would defend it.
blkexec wrote:nixluva wrote:blkexec wrote:MDA taught Amare everything he knows. Since Amare never played college ball, his first few years in the NBA was key to his career development and fundamentals.When you are playing for a coach that doesn't teach defense, and a HOF point guard that puts the ball exactly where you need it, you really don't have to use much skill, other than your natural born athleticism.
Well, now you can see what Amari looks like without his athleticism.
Don't forget another thing....Kenyon Martin was the number1 pick in his draft for a reason. Put both of them at athletic peak, and Martin is still the better athlete.
I've discussed this before, but Amar'e has had MANY good defensive coaches and teammates in his NBA life and absolutely ZERO excuse for his poor defense. This idea that Amar'e plays poor D because of MDA is ludicrous.
Amar'e had Frank Johnson and his staff for 2 training camps 2002-03 and 2003-04
MDA for 2004-05, 2005-06 Amar'e was injured, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2010-11 NY
Terry Porter training camp in 2008-09
Alvin Gentry training camp in 2009-10
Mike Woodson 2011-12, 2012-13The only one responsible for Amar'e playing poor D is Amar'e.
Improving your defensive IQ doesn't come from training camp. You have to actually play the game and hope you have a head coach that specializes in defense. Otherwise it's just something that comes naturally. When you are in HS, and the biggest kid around, you don't have to try very hard to play defense or offense. But in college, you have guys your size....Being big is not good enough....You have to develop more fundamentals.
I still believe if Amari went to college, he would've been ahead of his current development. Compared to Kenyon Martin who played all 4 yrs and has a natural gift for defensive instincts. So he got a double dose of defensive fundamentals, and actually used those skills against guys his size or bigger.
Training camp is used to build team chemistry, understand coaches philosophy, and improve your conditioning. Not to develop defensive instincts or basic fundamentals (you are expected to know that already at the NBA level).
Regardless of what you learn in training camp, as a rookie, you will lean on your strengths, not your weaknesses. That comes later in your career! Sometimes it comes too late, as in Amari's case, since he's now battling injuries and cant stay healthy enough to use his new offensive weapons, or Woody's defensive strategies....
Thank you. When your coach says "We need to score more to win" and "Lets go, lets go!" and "We need buckets!" then it truly becomes up to the player to to develop his defense separately. If the fundamentals are not there ,then the player is at a disadvantage if/when he has to learn D on his own.
Look like compression boots to help prevent/reduce edema. It compresses and cools at the same time.
Truly incredible that KMart's doing what he's doing at his age with his history. Let's hope some of that recuperability rubs off on Stat, who sure could use a change in luck.
CrushAlot wrote:bernard wrote:KMart hasn't had the injury issues Amare has had. Even back during the first year w/ the Knicks, Amare looked like a freak athlete. Remember how he used to dunk every time he got near the hole? Just powered through the defense. Super explosive. He just doesn't have that explosiveness anymore. He still can score, but without the athleticism, his always suspect defense is really awful. He used to pick up a few blocks and big rebounds a game just through his athleticism. Without it, and without defensive insticts, savvy or know-how, he goes from being a weak defender to one of the worst pf/c defenders in the league.Martin has had micro fracture surgery on both knees. He is the first player to ever play after having that surgery on both knees. Maybe he had a better surgeon but he is a bit of a medical miracle. I also think he was older then Amare and Micro fracture surgery is supposed to be more effective on younger guys.Kmart always played very good, physical, athletic defense. That always was his trademark. So, even he had fallen off a bit, I'd expected the defense to be good (it's like Amare's offense -- in his DNA). What's been surprising is how strong his offense has been. I honestly don't expect him to keep it up (it doesn't make sense that he'd shoot a career high % at 35), but he doesn't need to in order to be very useful for us.
I'm happy with him anchoring the D and scoring 5-10 points on 50% shooting in 25 mins a game. That totally changes the character of the team, and, imo, is more useful than amare scoring 15-20 ppg on 55% shooting in the same 25 mins while playing putrid d.