Off Topic · Should gay players come out or stay in the closet? (page 4)
DurzoBlint wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:the biggest difference is that When Robinson was playing, racist people felt like it was OK to walk up to him and spit in his face. Nowadays, people might think that but, they are unlikely to follow through.The very act of participated could and likely did place his entire family in danger. Collins is not likely to have a burning cross or phallic symbol appear on his front lawn. The comparison is so MINISCULE, that it shouldn't even be brought up.
+1
and you said it right in the next post. Dude is getting more attention NOW than he ever did as an active player. Enjoy your moment of relevance....I would have truly respected his act had it come during his prime. Doing it now during the twilight of your NBA career when you don't even belong to a team. As brave as his act was, it has a cowardly aspect too.
cowardly?! IMHO WTF is that kind of assessment? Obviously the guy was troubled. 10 years ago he is 24, new to the NBA, in his prime, and still trying to figure out life in general (what mid 20 year old isnt?). Hadn't told his own twin so we know there was some level of hesitation on his own part about his own identity or internal feeling.
There is nothing cowardly about this.
There is some sort of stigma within professional sports that all of us amateurs are unaware of or aren't privy to otherwise someone else would have come out much sooner. Someone is afraid to ruin their moneymaking career and has justified staying in closet for a reason, and making $5-15M is a pretty darn good reason for the likes of Jason Collins IMHO if this was even the case. Perhaps Jason just found the right timing for himself.
SupremeCommander wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Come out. Why f' yourself mentally? Who cares if people don't want to hear it. Just admit your gay and move on with your life. Yes I know, easier said than done.10 years ago I think most players would have sacrificed their careers by coming out
Thank God we live in the USA - there was a 25 y/o soccer player who came out and stopped playing because he knew the type of vitriol he would have to endure from the low culture hooligans in Europe. It's not as cut and dry as just living your life...
my best friend's brother was pretty active in his community and when the community found out he was gay they broke into his apartment, vandalized it, and spray painted death threats on damned near every surface in the apartment.
on a smaller scale, you got assholes like orangeblobman who baselessly point a finger and accuse random posters here like me of being gay as if it is insult. Just look at his idiotic thread about not being able to trust the team as far as he can throw them (he needs attention) or Google Marv's assessment of that dude's biggotry. Point is, you have to worry about the lowest filth of society is going to engage people on this issue
Not to go of topic; are you saying that orangeblobman is still on the board, posting under a new handle?
DurzoBlint wrote:my whole thought is who really cares. I doubt strait players really want to know and why would they.Here is my whole take, .....strait guys don't feel the need to announce our "straitness" so, why do gays feel the need to announce to the world their "homosexuality?" In my opinion, the very act of coming out is an intrusion to those who aren't interested, don't care and likely would rather NOT know.
The College I work for even has a "national coming out day" every couple of years like, the public at large really needs to know who's gay and who's not. I just don't get it.
Live and let live. Live your life, do what makes you happy and keep it moving. We don't need and public service announcements to inform the world at large of your sexuality. ITS YOUR BUSINESS NOT MINE!!!
Stop with this sanctimonious sermons already.
The act of coming out is an intrusion on those who are not interested? - What about those who deny gays basic human rights intruding on them?? Any thoughts on that?
You want these people to live double lifes/double standards so you can sustain your ignorance?? So your ignorance (priceless as it is) is somehow worth more than their basic human right to be acknowledged for who they are? Your bigotry is only equaled by your self serving crudeness.
Straight guys dont need to do that because taht's what's automatically assumed. Only when that assumption is wrong is there a need to point that out.
ChuckBuck wrote:Many people, including a number Collins' fellow NBA players, took to Twitter in support after his announcement.Proud of @jasoncollins34. Don't suffocate who u r because of the ignorance of others #courage #support #mambaarmystandup #BYOU
— Kobe Bryant (@kobebryant) April 29, 2013
I'm proud to call Jason Collins a friend. wjcf.co/154piCi
— Bill Clinton (@billclinton) April 29, 2013
Very proud of my friend Jason Collins for having the strength & courage to be the first openly gay player in the NBA. bit.ly/ZLei9F
— Chelsea Clinton (@ChelseaClinton) April 29, 2013
So proud of you, Jason Collins! This is a huge step forward for our country. We've got your back! -mo
— FLOTUS (@FLOTUS) April 29, 2013
I don't think we're going to see so prominent a list of persons with a different point of view. What crosses my mind is this; Jason is a free agent next season. He is 6'10", but I still consider him a marginal player, at the end of his career. If he gets no offers, will he cry discrimination, or will he move on to the next stage of his life?
I have known Jason Collins since he was Chelsea's classmate and friend at Stanford. Jason's announcement today is an important moment for professional sports and in the history of the LGBT community. It is also the straightforward statement of a good man who wants no more than what so many of us seek: to be able to be who we are; to do our work; to build families and to contribute to our communities. For so many members of the LGBT community, these simple goals remain elusive. I hope that everyone, particularly Jason's colleagues in the NBA, the media and his many fans extend to him their support and the respect he has earned.
For every poster who keeps asking why they need to ANNOUNCE their sexual orientation - THIS is why.
Nalod wrote:Do we have any UK posters who are gay?I guess one day perhaps "coming out" is not going to be a big deal.
Until we walked in the shoes of a gay person we just don't know how "staying in" really affects them.
Papabear Says
I believe we may have a gay poster or 2 but they probably won't come out yet. I predict within 2 years someone here just might have the nerve to come out and say they are gay. They have my full support just as long as they are not a Boston Celtics fan 
They are OK with me. 
Sangfroid wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Come out. Why f' yourself mentally? Who cares if people don't want to hear it. Just admit your gay and move on with your life. Yes I know, easier said than done.10 years ago I think most players would have sacrificed their careers by coming out
Thank God we live in the USA - there was a 25 y/o soccer player who came out and stopped playing because he knew the type of vitriol he would have to endure from the low culture hooligans in Europe. It's not as cut and dry as just living your life...
my best friend's brother was pretty active in his community and when the community found out he was gay they broke into his apartment, vandalized it, and spray painted death threats on damned near every surface in the apartment.
on a smaller scale, you got assholes like orangeblobman who baselessly point a finger and accuse random posters here like me of being gay as if it is insult. Just look at his idiotic thread about not being able to trust the team as far as he can throw them (he needs attention) or Google Marv's assessment of that dude's biggotry. Point is, you have to worry about the lowest filth of society is going to engage people on this issue
Not to go of topic; are you saying that orangeblobman is still on the board, posting under a new handle?
IronWillGiroud - read page four and five of the "Why I Do Not Trust This Team Not Even As Far As I Will Throw Them"
loweyecue wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:my whole thought is who really cares. I doubt strait players really want to know and why would they.Here is my whole take, .....strait guys don't feel the need to announce our "straitness" so, why do gays feel the need to announce to the world their "homosexuality?" In my opinion, the very act of coming out is an intrusion to those who aren't interested, don't care and likely would rather NOT know.
The College I work for even has a "national coming out day" every couple of years like, the public at large really needs to know who's gay and who's not. I just don't get it.
Live and let live. Live your life, do what makes you happy and keep it moving. We don't need and public service announcements to inform the world at large of your sexuality. ITS YOUR BUSINESS NOT MINE!!!
Stop with this sanctimonious sermons already.
The act of coming out is an intrusion on those who are not interested? - What about those who deny gays basic human rights intruding on them?? Any thoughts on that?You want these people to live double lifes/double standards so you can sustain your ignorance?? So your ignorance (priceless as it is) is somehow worth more than their basic human right to be acknowledged for who they are? Your bigotry is only equaled by your self serving crudeness.
Straight guys dont need to do that because taht's what's automatically assumed. Only when that assumption is wrong is there a need to point that out.
I don't recall calling it an intrusions, more of an unnecessary revelation. You do what you need to do for you to be happy....I am all for that. I just don't need you to make a public service announcement about it. Also, check my entire posts. I have marched in Gay pride parades alongside my Gay sister. I have nothing against people of different orientations than myself. I believe in Live and let Live. I just don't need to be informed of your lifestyle.
This is not anything negative against gays. I'm not disgusted by them or even opposed to having them around me or even in my circle of friends. Your only real disagreement with me from what I have read is that I'd rather be ignorant of someones orientation unless we are friends and you wish to disclose it.
Context is what you got wrong my friend. I have likely done more to fight for gay rights than ANYONE on this entire board who is not themselves gay.
DurzoBlint wrote:loweyecue wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:my whole thought is who really cares. I doubt strait players really want to know and why would they.Here is my whole take, .....strait guys don't feel the need to announce our "straitness" so, why do gays feel the need to announce to the world their "homosexuality?" In my opinion, the very act of coming out is an intrusion to those who aren't interested, don't care and likely would rather NOT know.
The College I work for even has a "national coming out day" every couple of years like, the public at large really needs to know who's gay and who's not. I just don't get it.
Live and let live. Live your life, do what makes you happy and keep it moving. We don't need and public service announcements to inform the world at large of your sexuality. ITS YOUR BUSINESS NOT MINE!!!
Stop with this sanctimonious sermons already.
The act of coming out is an intrusion on those who are not interested? - What about those who deny gays basic human rights intruding on them?? Any thoughts on that?You want these people to live double lifes/double standards so you can sustain your ignorance?? So your ignorance (priceless as it is) is somehow worth more than their basic human right to be acknowledged for who they are? Your bigotry is only equaled by your self serving crudeness.
Straight guys dont need to do that because taht's what's automatically assumed. Only when that assumption is wrong is there a need to point that out.
I don't recall calling it an intrusions, more of an unnecessary revelation. You do what you need to do for you to be happy....I am all for that. I just don't need you to make a public service announcement about it. Also, check my entire posts. I have marched in Gay pride parades alongside my Gay sister. I have nothing against people of different orientations than myself. I believe in Live and let Live. I just don't need to be informed of your lifestyle.
This is not anything negative against gays. I'm not disgusted by them or even opposed to having them around me or even in my circle of friends. Your only real disagreement with me from what I have read is that I'd rather be ignorant of someones orientation unless we are friends and you wish to disclose it.
Context is what you got wrong my friend. I have likely done more to fight for gay rights than ANYONE on this entire board who is not themselves gay.
If he announced his religion and it was a minority or uncommon one that differed from yours, would you view it as such a strong intrusion also?
DurzoBlint wrote:I don't view it as a strong intrusion.....why do people keep saying that. I feel its an unnecessary announcement like say, your watching TV and and your show goes to commercial. Right before it comes back on they say, (your shows title) up now.....like you need to know that. Its unnecessary but, not exactly an intrusion. People are construing a stronger emotional response to their "coming out" than I actually feel. I just think its not necessary, as opposed to personally problematic any way.
Strong, moderate, whatever. Would you have the same reaction if, for example, he said he was a Muslim or a Jain?
Bonn1997 wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:I don't view it as a strong intrusion.....why do people keep saying that. I feel its an unnecessary announcement like say, your watching TV and and your show goes to commercial. Right before it comes back on they say, (your shows title) up now.....like you need to know that. Its unnecessary but, not exactly an intrusion. People are construing a stronger emotional response to their "coming out" than I actually feel. I just think its not necessary, as opposed to personally problematic any way.Strong, moderate, whatever. Would you have the same reaction if, for example, he said he was a Muslim or a Jain?
I'd like to think so and I rarely talk religion except in the most general of terms. I have Muslim friends, some American born and some here on student visas and a couple of what I call fake Muslim family members. The kind that convert in prison, keep the name but forget everything else. Not sure what a Jain is but, I work in a scholastic environment with people from all walks of life, from all over the world. I've yet to meet someone I couldn't find common ground or a basis for some type of positive interaction.
DurzoBlint wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:I don't view it as a strong intrusion.....why do people keep saying that. I feel its an unnecessary announcement like say, your watching TV and and your show goes to commercial. Right before it comes back on they say, (your shows title) up now.....like you need to know that. Its unnecessary but, not exactly an intrusion. People are construing a stronger emotional response to their "coming out" than I actually feel. I just think its not necessary, as opposed to personally problematic any way.Strong, moderate, whatever. Would you have the same reaction if, for example, he said he was a Muslim or a Jain?
I'd like to think so and I rarely talk religion except in the most general of terms. I have Muslim friends, some American born and some here on student visas and a couple of what I call fake Muslim family members. The kind that convert in prison, keep the name but forget everything else. Not sure what a Jain is but, I work in a scholastic environment with people from all walks of life, from all over the world. I've yet to meet someone I couldn't find common ground or a basis for some type of positive interaction.
That's fair enough. After I asked the question, I realized that I actually am not fond of hearing players when being interviewed after games say, "I'd like to thank God for..." or something along those lines. If they want to be religious in their private lives, that's fine though. So maybe our views aren't that far apart.
I don't think your view is realistic, though, unless you're going to also say that he can never go on a date in public or hold his partner's hand in public. Surely, people would start to ask him what's going on.
DurzoBlint wrote:I think you missed my very last post. I said, go out with your partner, live your life and that's all the announcement that the world at large deserves. And I don't think people would ask what's going on because, I would be obvious to them when they see two guys holding hands. Less tolerant or mature people will be like WTF, but, that would be on their problem, not the couples. Its the whole concept of publicly disclosing your sexuality that I don't get.
Reporters and opposing players would use it though if pictures of him spread around with his partner. He'd never hear the end of it. I think he'd either have to keep deflecting questions for the rest of his life or come out.
Bonn1997 wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:I think you missed my very last post. I said, go out with your partner, live your life and that's all the announcement that the world at large deserves. And I don't think people would ask what's going on because, I would be obvious to them when they see two guys holding hands. Less tolerant or mature people will be like WTF, but, that would be on their problem, not the couples. Its the whole concept of publicly disclosing your sexuality that I don't get.
Reporters and opposing players would use it though if pictures of him spread around with his partner. He'd never hear the end of it. I think he'd either have to keep deflecting questions for the rest of his life or come out.
Your right about the questions but, his/their very actions would constitute "coming out", ..wouldn't it?
DurzoBlint wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:I think you missed my very last post. I said, go out with your partner, live your life and that's all the announcement that the world at large deserves. And I don't think people would ask what's going on because, I would be obvious to them when they see two guys holding hands. Less tolerant or mature people will be like WTF, but, that would be on their problem, not the couples. Its the whole concept of publicly disclosing your sexuality that I don't get.
Reporters and opposing players would use it though if pictures of him spread around with his partner. He'd never hear the end of it. I think he'd either have to keep deflecting questions for the rest of his life or come out.Your right about the questions but, his/their very actions would constitute "coming out", ..wouldn't it?
It would be insufficient though. The player would either have to make a public statement or deflect questions for the rest of his life.
Bonn1997 wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:I think you missed my very last post. I said, go out with your partner, live your life and that's all the announcement that the world at large deserves. And I don't think people would ask what's going on because, I would be obvious to them when they see two guys holding hands. Less tolerant or mature people will be like WTF, but, that would be on their problem, not the couples. Its the whole concept of publicly disclosing your sexuality that I don't get.
Reporters and opposing players would use it though if pictures of him spread around with his partner. He'd never hear the end of it. I think he'd either have to keep deflecting questions for the rest of his life or come out.Your right about the questions but, his/their very actions would constitute "coming out", ..wouldn't it?
It would be insufficient though. The player would either have to make a public statement or deflect questions for the rest of his life.
HMM, yeah, no, I really can't say either way. It takes bravery in any case, especially if your a public figure. I can't imagine the pressures such people face......I have said more than once, forget fame, I'd rather be anonymously rich.
Bonn1997 wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:I don't view it as a strong intrusion.....why do people keep saying that. I feel its an unnecessary announcement like say, your watching TV and and your show goes to commercial. Right before it comes back on they say, (your shows title) up now.....like you need to know that. Its unnecessary but, not exactly an intrusion. People are construing a stronger emotional response to their "coming out" than I actually feel. I just think its not necessary, as opposed to personally problematic any way.Strong, moderate, whatever. Would you have the same reaction if, for example, he said he was a Muslim or a Jain?
I'd like to think so and I rarely talk religion except in the most general of terms. I have Muslim friends, some American born and some here on student visas and a couple of what I call fake Muslim family members. The kind that convert in prison, keep the name but forget everything else. Not sure what a Jain is but, I work in a scholastic environment with people from all walks of life, from all over the world. I've yet to meet someone I couldn't find common ground or a basis for some type of positive interaction.
That's fair enough. After I asked the question, I realized that I actually am not fond of hearing players when being interviewed after games say, "I'd like to thank God for..." or something along those lines. If they want to be religious in their private lives, that's fine though. So maybe our views aren't that far apart.I don't think your view is realistic, though, unless you're going to also say that he can never go on a date in public or hold his partner's hand in public. Surely, people would start to ask him what's going on.
I was just going to say that I don't have a problem with people who say stuff like "I thank God" because in truth I agree with them. 2 things though:
1) Are they saying that because they truely thank God? If so, then I don't see a problem with it. It doesn't really degrade any 1 religion. However, if they are just saying that to make themselves look good then they should probably STFU.