Knicks · If the Knicks blow this series, what happens? (page 5)

franco12 wrote:

Solace wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Solace wrote:If we blow this series, I think listening to Colin Cowherd will be impossible forevermore....

It isn't impossible already?

Nearly. Colin makes some good points at times, and he has a way with words. On the other hand, with a lot of his analysis, it becomes questionable whether he watches the NBA at all or just reads statistics. Usually he pisses me off and I switch to WFAN for a while when he's on.

"The Knicks need to create more shots for Tyson Chandler." Huh? How do you create shots for someone whose only move is to dunk?

By running more motion in your offense!

Seriously- Chandler is limited, but teams continue to struggle to defend the pick and roll with him and Felton.

We're loosing because every play has become clear out and watch Melo! And he's just not LeBron!

Yes, but that's different than the point Colin made. I agree with ball movement and people not standing around. Colin advocates Tyson Chandler SHOOTING and Kenyon Martin SHOOTING. Creating easy layups and dunks, I agree with. But if they don't have a shot and there's 7 seconds left on the clock, it's totally legitimate for Melo to get the ball and make something happen.

But in general, yes, the Knicks run too many isos. They play better when they don't overuse the iso.

Btw, this is the same points that we made when D'Antoni was here. That's why D'Antoni quit, because Melo wasn't passing enough. I forgave Melo with a new coach, since the coach created a system that uses Melo's strengths. But even with that, sometimes Melo takes it too far.

Solace wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Solace wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Solace wrote:If we blow this series, I think listening to Colin Cowherd will be impossible forevermore....

It isn't impossible already?

Nearly. Colin makes some good points at times, and he has a way with words. On the other hand, with a lot of his analysis, it becomes questionable whether he watches the NBA at all or just reads statistics. Usually he pisses me off and I switch to WFAN for a while when he's on.

"The Knicks need to create more shots for Tyson Chandler." Huh? How do you create shots for someone whose only move is to dunk?

By running more motion in your offense!

Seriously- Chandler is limited, but teams continue to struggle to defend the pick and roll with him and Felton.

We're loosing because every play has become clear out and watch Melo! And he's just not LeBron!

Yes, but that's different than the point Colin made. I agree with ball movement and people not standing around. Colin advocates Tyson Chandler SHOOTING and Kenyon Martin SHOOTING. Creating easy layups and dunks, I agree with. But if they don't have a shot and there's 7 seconds left on the clock, it's totally legitimate for Melo to get the ball and make something happen.

But in general, yes, the Knicks run too many isos. They play better when they don't overuse the iso.

Moreso than ball movement, we need body movement. When the Celts iso-Pierce, the weakside players cut to the basket. When we iso-Melo, we hover around the 3 point line opposite side of the court. There are no passing lanes when this happens. We need more basket-cuts, flex-cuts back and flare screens on the weakside to open things up and not allow the entire Celts defense to zone up and guard Melo.

Solace wrote:Btw, this is the same points that we made when D'Antoni was here. That's why D'Antoni quit, because Melo wasn't passing enough. I forgave Melo with a new coach, since the coach created a system that uses Melo's strengths. But even with that, sometimes Melo takes it too far.

I dont really blame Melo for shutting D'antoni out since MDA didnt like him for gettin Gallinari traded. Its hard to come into a situation with an open mind when your coach already dislikes you.

If the Knicks blow this series, we will need to bring the Alba Tournament back

The supporters will point out that we haven't yet had a playoff series with Melo-Amare-Chandler healthy and that we just need to be patient.

Bonn1997 wrote:The supporters will point out that we haven't yet had a playoff series with Melo-Amare-Chandler healthy and that we just need to be patient.

Not really. Amare will never be healthy. Chandler is coming back to reality.

Bonn1997 wrote:The supporters will point out that we haven't yet had a playoff series with Melo-Amare-Chandler healthy and that we just need to be patient.

Supporters of what/who?

lol no I think Knicks lose this series and even the most staunch Melo supporters will lose faith. I know I will but its easier for me since I havent had faith in any Knick since Ewing to lead us deep into the playoffs yr after yr

TeamBall wrote:

Solace wrote:Btw, this is the same points that we made when D'Antoni was here. That's why D'Antoni quit, because Melo wasn't passing enough. I forgave Melo with a new coach, since the coach created a system that uses Melo's strengths. But even with that, sometimes Melo takes it too far.

I dont really blame Melo for shutting D'antoni out since MDA didnt like him for gettin Gallinari traded. Its hard to come into a situation with an open mind when your coach already dislikes you.

I don't agree with this point of view and not sure where you're getting it from. Not liking the trade and not liking Melo are very different things.

Uptown wrote:

Solace wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Solace wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Solace wrote:If we blow this series, I think listening to Colin Cowherd will be impossible forevermore....

It isn't impossible already?

Nearly. Colin makes some good points at times, and he has a way with words. On the other hand, with a lot of his analysis, it becomes questionable whether he watches the NBA at all or just reads statistics. Usually he pisses me off and I switch to WFAN for a while when he's on.

"The Knicks need to create more shots for Tyson Chandler." Huh? How do you create shots for someone whose only move is to dunk?

By running more motion in your offense!

Seriously- Chandler is limited, but teams continue to struggle to defend the pick and roll with him and Felton.

We're loosing because every play has become clear out and watch Melo! And he's just not LeBron!

Yes, but that's different than the point Colin made. I agree with ball movement and people not standing around. Colin advocates Tyson Chandler SHOOTING and Kenyon Martin SHOOTING. Creating easy layups and dunks, I agree with. But if they don't have a shot and there's 7 seconds left on the clock, it's totally legitimate for Melo to get the ball and make something happen.

But in general, yes, the Knicks run too many isos. They play better when they don't overuse the iso.

Moreso than ball movement, we need body movement. When the Celts iso-Pierce, the weakside players cut to the basket. When we iso-Melo, we hover around the 3 point line opposite side of the court. There are no passing lanes when this happens. We need more basket-cuts, flex-cuts back and flare screens on the weakside to open things up and not allow the entire Celts defense to zone up and guard Melo.

Right. That's what I'm saying. Colin focuses on Melo. My focus would be why Kidd, Novak, and most of the other guys stand in place like statues once Melo grabs the ball. How is Melo supposed to pass if nobody makes any effort to get open?

Solace wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Solace wrote:Btw, this is the same points that we made when D'Antoni was here. That's why D'Antoni quit, because Melo wasn't passing enough. I forgave Melo with a new coach, since the coach created a system that uses Melo's strengths. But even with that, sometimes Melo takes it too far.

I dont really blame Melo for shutting D'antoni out since MDA didnt like him for gettin Gallinari traded. Its hard to come into a situation with an open mind when your coach already dislikes you.

I don't agree with this point of view and not sure where you're getting it from. Not liking the trade and not liking Melo are very different things.

I can dig a little and find out where I read it (it was a while ago) but MDA really like Gallinari obviously and didnt want him traded. I read that he resented Melo for it when he was here.

gunsnewing wrote:lol no I think Knicks lose this series and even the most stonch Melo supporters will lose faith. I know I will but its easier for me since I havent had faith in any Knick since Ewing to lead us deep into the playoffs yr after yr

The only way I'll start losing faith in Melo is if this goes to 7 and Melo plays as poorly as he has the last 2 games. I don't expect that to happen but on the small chance that it does, I couldn't blame anyone for wanting to explore other options. But as far as the series goes there would be enough blame to go around. Yes he would catch more heat because Melo gets the big bucks. Still not enough to pin it all on him. Especially with the whole J.R mess.

I would rather see what we could do to surround him with new players who will be available when the playoffs come around. No Sheed, Stat, and KT. Please don't tell me that hasn't made things more difficult this season, and in the playoffs. They aren't the only ones who have been out.

Camby looks like he is in the doghouse or Woodson is confident we will advance and wants to save him for the rest of the playoffs.

GustavBahler wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:lol no I think Knicks lose this series and even the most stonch Melo supporters will lose faith. I know I will but its easier for me since I havent had faith in any Knick since Ewing to lead us deep into the playoffs yr after yr

The only way I'll start losing faith in Melo is if this goes to 7 and Melo plays as poorly as he has the last 2 games. I don't expect that to happen but on the small chance that it does, I couldn't blame anyone for wanting to explore other options. But as far as the series goes there would be enough blame to go around. Yes he would catch more heat because Melo gets the big bucks. Still not enough to pin it all on him. Especially with the whole J.R mess.

I would rather see what we could do to surround him with new players who will be available when the playoffs come around. No Sheed, Stat, and KT. Please don't tell me that hasn't made things more difficult this season, and in the playoffs. They aren't the only ones who have been out.

Camby looks like he is in the doghouse or Woodson is confident we will advance and wants to save him for the rest of the playoffs.

The chances of us getting rid of him are very little anyway so I do agree that we should think of other ways to build a team with him. The vets though was more of a Woodson move I believe.

losing this series or even having to play a game 7 cant happen. They have to end this tongiht. Show some heart/toughness and end it on their homecourt. Nobody has ever come back down 3-0 and won in the NBA so if it happens then the Knicks will be made fun of for years to come

Solace wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Solace wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Solace wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Solace wrote:If we blow this series, I think listening to Colin Cowherd will be impossible forevermore....

It isn't impossible already?

Nearly. Colin makes some good points at times, and he has a way with words. On the other hand, with a lot of his analysis, it becomes questionable whether he watches the NBA at all or just reads statistics. Usually he pisses me off and I switch to WFAN for a while when he's on.

"The Knicks need to create more shots for Tyson Chandler." Huh? How do you create shots for someone whose only move is to dunk?

By running more motion in your offense!

Seriously- Chandler is limited, but teams continue to struggle to defend the pick and roll with him and Felton.

We're loosing because every play has become clear out and watch Melo! And he's just not LeBron!

Yes, but that's different than the point Colin made. I agree with ball movement and people not standing around. Colin advocates Tyson Chandler SHOOTING and Kenyon Martin SHOOTING. Creating easy layups and dunks, I agree with. But if they don't have a shot and there's 7 seconds left on the clock, it's totally legitimate for Melo to get the ball and make something happen.

But in general, yes, the Knicks run too many isos. They play better when they don't overuse the iso.

Moreso than ball movement, we need body movement. When the Celts iso-Pierce, the weakside players cut to the basket. When we iso-Melo, we hover around the 3 point line opposite side of the court. There are no passing lanes when this happens. We need more basket-cuts, flex-cuts back and flare screens on the weakside to open things up and not allow the entire Celts defense to zone up and guard Melo.

Right. That's what I'm saying. Colin focuses on Melo. My focus would be why Kidd, Novak, and most of the other guys stand in place like statues once Melo grabs the ball. How is Melo supposed to pass if nobody makes any effort to get open?

Maybe those guys don't try to get open because they know even if they do, Melo is not passing the ball!

Seriously - you could put my fat 43 year old ass on the court, and I bet I could get more assists than Melo

This isn't just on Melo- where the hell is Woodson? When the hell is he going to try something different? What about throwing Copeland out there for a few minutes? Afraid he'll turn the ball over, shoot airballs? We're already getting that from Melo and JR.

franco12 wrote:

Solace wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Solace wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Solace wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Solace wrote:If we blow this series, I think listening to Colin Cowherd will be impossible forevermore....

It isn't impossible already?

Nearly. Colin makes some good points at times, and he has a way with words. On the other hand, with a lot of his analysis, it becomes questionable whether he watches the NBA at all or just reads statistics. Usually he pisses me off and I switch to WFAN for a while when he's on.

"The Knicks need to create more shots for Tyson Chandler." Huh? How do you create shots for someone whose only move is to dunk?

By running more motion in your offense!

Seriously- Chandler is limited, but teams continue to struggle to defend the pick and roll with him and Felton.

We're loosing because every play has become clear out and watch Melo! And he's just not LeBron!

Yes, but that's different than the point Colin made. I agree with ball movement and people not standing around. Colin advocates Tyson Chandler SHOOTING and Kenyon Martin SHOOTING. Creating easy layups and dunks, I agree with. But if they don't have a shot and there's 7 seconds left on the clock, it's totally legitimate for Melo to get the ball and make something happen.

But in general, yes, the Knicks run too many isos. They play better when they don't overuse the iso.

Moreso than ball movement, we need body movement. When the Celts iso-Pierce, the weakside players cut to the basket. When we iso-Melo, we hover around the 3 point line opposite side of the court. There are no passing lanes when this happens. We need more basket-cuts, flex-cuts back and flare screens on the weakside to open things up and not allow the entire Celts defense to zone up and guard Melo.

Right. That's what I'm saying. Colin focuses on Melo. My focus would be why Kidd, Novak, and most of the other guys stand in place like statues once Melo grabs the ball. How is Melo supposed to pass if nobody makes any effort to get open?

Maybe those guys don't try to get open because they know even if they do, Melo is not passing the ball!

Seriously - you could put my fat 43 year old ass on the court, and I bet I could get more assists than Melo

This isn't just on Melo- where the hell is Woodson? When the hell is he going to try something different? What about throwing Copeland out there for a few minutes? Afraid he'll turn the ball over, shoot airballs? We're already getting that from Melo and JR.

Good Post. I agree melo doenst deserve all the blame. Woodson has had a brutal series with his decisions. JR Smith really changed the tone when he stupidly hit terry. The Celtics were DEAD at that point and he gave them more life. Even though i dont put everything on melo he hasnt helped the last 2 games. In Game 4 he didnt have it so he should have gave the ball to felton more whi had the hot hand. Also those missed FT's was the biggest turning point in the series. If we get one FT this is a sweep

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The supporters will point out that we haven't yet had a playoff series with Melo-Amare-Chandler healthy and that we just need to be patient.

Supporters of what/who?

Supporters of the current path (supporters of the Melo-Amare-Chandler era)

gunsnewing wrote:lol no I think Knicks lose this series and even the most staunch Melo supporters will lose faith. I know I will but its easier for me since I havent had faith in any Knick since Ewing to lead us deep into the playoffs yr after yr

The ones with a head in reality will. Some are already saying it was already a success because we won 3 consecutive post-season games.

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:The supporters will point out that we haven't yet had a playoff series with Melo-Amare-Chandler healthy and that we just need to be patient.

Supporters of what/who?

Aren't those people called Knick fans?

franco12 wrote:

Solace wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Solace wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Solace wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Solace wrote:If we blow this series, I think listening to Colin Cowherd will be impossible forevermore....

It isn't impossible already?

Nearly. Colin makes some good points at times, and he has a way with words. On the other hand, with a lot of his analysis, it becomes questionable whether he watches the NBA at all or just reads statistics. Usually he pisses me off and I switch to WFAN for a while when he's on.

"The Knicks need to create more shots for Tyson Chandler." Huh? How do you create shots for someone whose only move is to dunk?

By running more motion in your offense!

Seriously- Chandler is limited, but teams continue to struggle to defend the pick and roll with him and Felton.

We're loosing because every play has become clear out and watch Melo! And he's just not LeBron!

Yes, but that's different than the point Colin made. I agree with ball movement and people not standing around. Colin advocates Tyson Chandler SHOOTING and Kenyon Martin SHOOTING. Creating easy layups and dunks, I agree with. But if they don't have a shot and there's 7 seconds left on the clock, it's totally legitimate for Melo to get the ball and make something happen.

But in general, yes, the Knicks run too many isos. They play better when they don't overuse the iso.

Moreso than ball movement, we need body movement. When the Celts iso-Pierce, the weakside players cut to the basket. When we iso-Melo, we hover around the 3 point line opposite side of the court. There are no passing lanes when this happens. We need more basket-cuts, flex-cuts back and flare screens on the weakside to open things up and not allow the entire Celts defense to zone up and guard Melo.

Right. That's what I'm saying. Colin focuses on Melo. My focus would be why Kidd, Novak, and most of the other guys stand in place like statues once Melo grabs the ball. How is Melo supposed to pass if nobody makes any effort to get open?

Maybe those guys don't try to get open because they know even if they do, Melo is not passing the ball!

Seriously - you could put my fat 43 year old ass on the court, and I bet I could get more assists than Melo

This isn't just on Melo- where the hell is Woodson? When the hell is he going to try something different? What about throwing Copeland out there for a few minutes? Afraid he'll turn the ball over, shoot airballs? We're already getting that from Melo and JR.

Obviously, Woodson read my post today. I saw plenty of body movement, some pin-down screens for Melo and Ray, even saw some flare-screens on the weak side. And Melo gave up the ball plenty....