martin wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bogut only makes a few million more than McGee, shouldn't he(Javale McGee) be close in production and stature?
man, when does salary ever equate to ability or production? why would you even go there?
It shouldn't matter, case in point JR Smith making only $2.8 mill but winning 6th man.
Usually when a team commits $40 mill+ to a player, you'd think he'd compete at high level and put up stats comparable to Bogut's. Guess that's Denver and Karl's bad in the investment.
Either way, I wouldn't put Bogut in the elite center discussion. He can't seem to stay healthy on the floor to warrant it.
Maybe Bogut of 3-4 years ago, but I could see him retiring from the game with all his various ailments very soon.
Thibs been the man in the playoffs!
Reinsdorf must count his lucky stars MDA asked for the money Knicks paid him!
He got a great coach! I think its a rare instance when a coach makes THAT kind of impact with the injuries he has had.
Bottom line success with Bulls is Boozer played great against the Nyets and Noah is playing his best now. The dude is playing off the charts!
Bulls if they had a healthy Deng-Noah-Rose-Booze all at once could win it all.
Nalod wrote:Thibs been the man in the playoffs! Reinsdorf must count his lucky stars MDA asked for the money Knicks paid him!
He got a great coach! I think its a rare instance when a coach makes THAT kind of impact with the injuries he has had.
Bottom line success with Bulls is Boozer played great against the Nyets and Noah is playing his best now. The dude is playing off the charts!
Bulls if they had a healthy Deng-Noah-Rose-Booze all at once could win it all.
That I can agree with. Thibs is the man.
ChuckBuck wrote:martin wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bogut only makes a few million more than McGee, shouldn't he(Javale McGee) be close in production and stature?
man, when does salary ever equate to ability or production? why would you even go there?
It shouldn't matter, case in point JR Smith making only $2.8 mill but winning 6th man.
Usually when a team commits $40 mill+ to a player, you'd think he'd compete at high level and put up stats comparable to Bogut's. Guess that's Denver and Karl's bad in the investment.
Either way, I wouldn't put Bogut in the elite center discussion. He can't seem to stay healthy on the floor to warrant it.
Maybe Bogut of 3-4 years ago, but I could see him retiring from the game with all his various ailments very soon.
This is where I jump off and not argue every point to prolong my UK career.
Bogut got traded for Monta Elis, was former no. 1 over all pick and has not been healthy in a long time.
I remember Tyson having health problems also and thought he was finished in New Orleans and Charlotte.
Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
Nalod wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:martin wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bogut only makes a few million more than McGee, shouldn't he(Javale McGee) be close in production and stature?
man, when does salary ever equate to ability or production? why would you even go there?
It shouldn't matter, case in point JR Smith making only $2.8 mill but winning 6th man.
Usually when a team commits $40 mill+ to a player, you'd think he'd compete at high level and put up stats comparable to Bogut's. Guess that's Denver and Karl's bad in the investment.
Either way, I wouldn't put Bogut in the elite center discussion. He can't seem to stay healthy on the floor to warrant it.
Maybe Bogut of 3-4 years ago, but I could see him retiring from the game with all his various ailments very soon.
This is where I jump off and not argue every point to prolong my UK career.
Bogut got traded for Monta Elis, was former no. 1 over all pick and has not been healthy in a long time.
I remember Tyson having health problems also and thought he was finished in New Orleans and Charlotte.
I think we're talking about the now. Chandler(Flu Tyson alter ego aside) has played 202 regular season games in the last 3 seasons compared to Bogut's 109.
Try not to think as Bogut as #1 pick of the 2005 NBA Draft Andrew Bogut and you'll see where I'm coming from.
3G4G wrote:Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
What's the statement or argument again?
Did George Karl take the Nuggets to the NBA Finals or something and I missed it?
I'm pretty sure Larry Brown took 2 different teams to the NBA Finals.
ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
What's the statement or argument again?
Did George Karl take the Nuggets to the NBA Finals or something and I missed it?
I'm pretty sure Larry Brown took 2 different teams to the NBA Finals.
How do you explain the success he had pre-Nuggets? Do you really think he was a good coach and then lost the ability? Like when he turned sixty, he started experiencing cognitive damage and can't think as well? Further, the impaired cognition is post-season-specific. It lies dormant during the regular season? the The simpler explanation is that the playoffs are largely a crapshoot. You're talking about a couple dozen games a decade. You should expect lots of variability unless you have true hall-of-famers. You seem to be making the implausible argument that there's something meaningful about Karl's coaching that (a) used to work well in both the regular and post-seasons, (b) still works well in the regular season, but (c) no longer works in the post-season. It's a hard claim to swallow.
ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
What's the statement or argument again?
Did George Karl take the Nuggets to the NBA Finals or something and I missed it?
I'm pretty sure Larry Brown took 2 different teams to the NBA Finals.
Sonics WFC>Sonics WCF>Sonics Finals
Bucks ECF
Nuggets WCF
That's 4 Conference Finals and 1 Finals with 3 different teams.
Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
What's the statement or argument again?
Did George Karl take the Nuggets to the NBA Finals or something and I missed it?
I'm pretty sure Larry Brown took 2 different teams to the NBA Finals.
How do you explain the success he had pre-Nuggets? Do you really think he was a good coach and then lost the ability? Like when he turned sixty, he started experiencing cognitive damage and can't think as well? Further, the impaired cognition is post-season-specific. It lies dormant during the regular season? the The simpler explanation is that the playoffs are largely a crapshoot. You're talking about a couple dozen games a decade. You should expect lots of variability unless you have true hall-of-famers.
Speaking of Larry Brown, craphole of a coach with the Knicks he was, here's his playoff record:
193 wins - 100 losses, .518 winning percentage, 2 NBA Finals appearances, 1 ring
A good comparison for George Karl is probably Don Nelson.
Nellie was also a great regular season coach, couldn't produce in the playoffs when it counts:
Don Nelson
75 wins - 91 losses, .452 winning percentage
3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
What's the statement or argument again?
Did George Karl take the Nuggets to the NBA Finals or something and I missed it?
I'm pretty sure Larry Brown took 2 different teams to the NBA Finals.
Sonics WFC>Sonics WCF>Sonics Finals
Bucks ECF
Nuggets WCF
That's 4 Conference Finals and 1 Finals with 3 different teams.
Ehh Pat Riley's resume is more impressive.
3 different teams, NBA finals, Lakers, Knicks, Heat.
ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
What's the statement or argument again?
Did George Karl take the Nuggets to the NBA Finals or something and I missed it?
I'm pretty sure Larry Brown took 2 different teams to the NBA Finals.
Sonics WFC>Sonics WCF>Sonics Finals
Bucks ECF
Nuggets WCF
That's 4 Conference Finals and 1 Finals with 3 different teams.
Ehh Pat Riley's resume is more impressive.
3 different teams, NBA finals, Lakers, Knicks, Heat.
Who cares
No one said Karl was the BEST COACH EVER....bottom line he's achieved far more than the greater majority who have ever coach this game.
nyk4ever wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:martin wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:martin wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Deflect what? Karl and Pop coached roughly the same about of playoff games(185 to 200). One's a winner, one's a loser.Big enough sample size(shout out to Bonn).
End result, George Karl is a fraud, loser, no adjustment making postseason coach.
Like I said earlier, he'll win you upwards of 50+ games, sometimes 60+(Thanks GP!) in the regular season, but when it comes down to the real coaching, when micromanaging every possesion counts, he doesn't answer the bell.
But according to you, he's GGGRRREEAAATT! 
This is about this dumbest argument and comparison and conclusion I have seen in a long time. One coach just had Tim Duncan his whole career and the other, well, hasn't. And you want to compare records straight up? Rosters count.
Coaching doesn't matter?
How did Thibodeau end up beating Brooklyn on the road in game 7 and stealing game 1 from Miami?
I know it's a players league and what not, but one could argue, no one had more talent and depth than the LA Clippers, and they just got beat by star-less Memphis Grizzlies team.
Is Lionel Hollins a great coach? I'd say better than average, not great.
Is Vinny Del Negro that bad of a coach. HELLL's YES with a capital H!
End point, Karl is a good regular season coach. He doesn't make the necessary adjustments in playoff games against comparable coaches when it counts.
Mark Jackson took Karl to school.
Never said coaching doesn't matter. Said rosters count too. So do injuries and salary cap and everything else. It's just not about 1 part.
Fair enough. Some may see the Denver Nuggets overachieved under Karl's coaching in winning 57 games with a style that's more ABA and gimmicky, run and up and down in elevated mile high altitudes for 48 minutes.
Unfortunately, for all his coaching genius in the regular season, his success rarely translates into the 2nd season when it counts.
3 seed with home court. Only injury to Gallo, and the superior David Lee was out, so I'll generously call that a wash.
Only point I'm trying to make is nobody does less with more than George Karl in the playoffs, and that's being generous.
not saying you chuck, but i think alot of people forget that karl coached the sonics to alot of success and he did have the players (kemp payon mcmillan perkins schrempf)
it all goes into the recipe.
Yeah but he also lost twice in the first round with that group once with the one seed and once with the two seed. I can see how he got the award but I really thought MJax and Woodson should have been 1 and 2. Obviously what Thibs continues to do puts him in the conversation as well.
Honestly, I'd take Spoelstra, Pop, Woody, Vogel, MJax, or THibs right now over Karl for COY.
Who in the hell gave Vinnie Del Negro a 1st place vote? 
How did he get 1 and Scott Brooks got none?
ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
What's the statement or argument again?
Did George Karl take the Nuggets to the NBA Finals or something and I missed it?
I'm pretty sure Larry Brown took 2 different teams to the NBA Finals.
How do you explain the success he had pre-Nuggets? Do you really think he was a good coach and then lost the ability? Like when he turned sixty, he started experiencing cognitive damage and can't think as well? Further, the impaired cognition is post-season-specific. It lies dormant during the regular season? the The simpler explanation is that the playoffs are largely a crapshoot. You're talking about a couple dozen games a decade. You should expect lots of variability unless you have true hall-of-famers.
Speaking of Larry Brown, craphole of a coach with the Knicks he was, here's his playoff record:
193 wins - 100 losses, .518 winning percentage, 2 NBA Finals appearances, 1 ring
A good comparison for George Karl is probably Don Nelson.
Nellie was also a great regular season coach, couldn't produce in the playoffs when it counts:
Don Nelson
75 wins - 91 losses, .452 winning percentage
What does Larry Brown have to do with anything I posted?
You didn't offer any coherent explanation for the pattern I identified.
You seem to be making the implausible argument that there's something meaningful about Karl's coaching that (a) used to work well in both the regular and post-seasons, (b) still works well in the regular season, but (c) no longer works in the post-season. It's a hard claim to swallow. Either that or you're ignoring part (a) out of convenience.
3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
What's the statement or argument again?
Did George Karl take the Nuggets to the NBA Finals or something and I missed it?
I'm pretty sure Larry Brown took 2 different teams to the NBA Finals.
Sonics WFC>Sonics WCF>Sonics Finals
Bucks ECF
Nuggets WCF
That's 4 Conference Finals and 1 Finals with 3 different teams.
Ehh Pat Riley's resume is more impressive.
3 different teams, NBA finals, Lakers, Knicks, Heat.
Who cares
No one said Karl was the BEST COACH EVER....bottom line he's achieved far more than the greater majority who have ever coach this game.
yea, now he is reaching for pat riley.. well when you have to start getting coaches like that then it just shows how good Karl really is...again, he is among an elite group of coaches..
Like I said in another thread , I heard Karl on a interview with Jim Rome.
Karl went on to say he doesn't really coach the team anymore his assistants do.
His battle with Cancer has taken it's toll on him and the team was preparing his assistants to take over when he wasn't doing that well just in case.
The team isn't expected to win anything under Karl , that makes his job that much easier to come up short on a consistent basis.
I called it, a few months ago in the CoY thread I said "it will be Karl" and it was so
playa2 wrote:Like I said in another thread , I heard Karl on a interview with Jim Rome.Karl went on to say he doesn't really coach the team anymore his assistants do.
His battle with Cancer has taken it's toll on him and the team was preparing his assistants to take over when he wasn't doing that well just in case.
The team isn't expected to win anything under Karl , that makes his job that much easier to come up short on a consistent basis.
You have an exact quote? That sounds odd. Maybe he was just being humble.
Bonn1997 wrote:playa2 wrote:Like I said in another thread , I heard Karl on a interview with Jim Rome.Karl went on to say he doesn't really coach the team anymore his assistants do.
His battle with Cancer has taken it's toll on him and the team was preparing his assistants to take over when he wasn't doing that well just in case.
The team isn't expected to win anything under Karl , that makes his job that much easier to come up short on a consistent basis.
You have an exact quote? That sounds odd. Maybe he was just being humble.
bonn, in the age we live in, humbleness is mistaken for weakness by people who do not understand such virtues
Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:ChuckBuck wrote:3G4G wrote:Still waiting for Chuck and other naysayers to put a list of coaches together not named...
Phil
Pop
Doc
Who have taken 2-3 different teams to a Conference Finals and to a Finals
What's the statement or argument again?
Did George Karl take the Nuggets to the NBA Finals or something and I missed it?
I'm pretty sure Larry Brown took 2 different teams to the NBA Finals.
How do you explain the success he had pre-Nuggets? Do you really think he was a good coach and then lost the ability? Like when he turned sixty, he started experiencing cognitive damage and can't think as well? Further, the impaired cognition is post-season-specific. It lies dormant during the regular season? the The simpler explanation is that the playoffs are largely a crapshoot. You're talking about a couple dozen games a decade. You should expect lots of variability unless you have true hall-of-famers.
Speaking of Larry Brown, craphole of a coach with the Knicks he was, here's his playoff record:
193 wins - 100 losses, .518 winning percentage, 2 NBA Finals appearances, 1 ring
A good comparison for George Karl is probably Don Nelson.
Nellie was also a great regular season coach, couldn't produce in the playoffs when it counts:
Don Nelson
75 wins - 91 losses, .452 winning percentage
What does Larry Brown have to do with anything I posted?
You didn't offer any coherent explanation for the pattern I identified.
You seem to be making the implausible argument that there's something meaningful about Karl's coaching that (a) used to work well in both the regular and post-seasons, (b) still works well in the regular season, but (c) no longer works in the post-season. It's a hard claim to swallow. Either that or you're ignoring part (a) out of convenience.
Exhibit A, B, C, D, E,....Z - #3 Denver Nuggets(57-25) vs #6 Golden State Warriors(47-35) 2013 1st Round
Nuggets won handily in the regular season 3-1. The Nuggets barely won Game 1 in the playoff game of Andre Miller's life. Once Karl lost Game 2, he didn't make the necessary adjustments, and lost the series 4-2.
So yea open up that claim and swallow.
