Without him they don't have much of a chance. We need to get him out of the paint (Cope?) and I think we get through the game easy.
How easy will it be to draw him away? I don't know that it matters. Chandler is more valuable if he draws Hibbert away than if is in the paint on offense or defense imo. Put Cope in there for all I care, he will give us more than Chandler has been. Chandler can hit that mid range jump shot. Things need to change with coaching now (and of course Melo and JR need to step up as well, with Shump probably out.)
We must neutralize Hibbert. He is their 1 dangerous guy, we have a few.
EMS
earthmansurfer wrote:Without him they don't have much of a chance. We need to get him out of the paint (Cope?) and I think we get through the game easy.How easy will it be to draw him away? I don't know that it matters. Chandler is more valuable if he draws Hibbert away than if is in the paint on offense or defense imo. Put Cope in there for all I care, he will give us more than Chandler has been. Chandler can hit that mid range jump shot. Things need to change with coaching now (and of course Melo and JR need to step up as well, with Shump probably out.)
We must neutralize Hibbert. He is their 1 dangerous guy, we have a few.
EMS
That was the same thing I was talking about with TMS on Facebook. Yes, if we put a team of all guys who can hit outside shots, Hibbert has to come outside. I would like to see some time with Amar'e, Melo, Copeland, Shumpert and Felton on the floor at the same time. Hibbert has to come out or we're going to have easy jumpers. If Hibbert comes out, we can drive the lane.
We need to pull Hibbert out of the paint but we also have to guard him on the other end of the floor. This smallball shit is not going to work against his length/strength because he'll manhandle his defender in the paint (just think of what he did against a legitimate 7ft 250lbs center in Tyson Chandler). If we beat him, I think it'll have to be by committee, which disrupts his ability to get comfortable since our big men are so diversely skilled.
I think the rotation we play against Hibbert should be Tyson Chandler, Amare and Earl Barron; the later two being able to bring him out into the paint by shooting jumpers. If we keep fresh legs against him constantly, I like our chances because Hibbert has a terrible motor/stamina, and can't sustain his effort like a true cornerstone of a franchise. Rope-A-Dope him and see how we fair.
With all that being said, I'd also like to see what we can do by playing Chandler off of him. Tyson has been a pretty good help defender and might actually be able to better contest Hibbert's shot by helping against him on the weak side.
I said that before game three.
But I didn't think about using Copeland. Thats a great idea. He's better at guarding slow players in the post anyway, plus he's another player to absorb fouls on Hibbert.
But whats more important is that it gets Hibbert out of the paint on defense, and allows Copeland to take his time on those 3 pt shots.
The key is to always have shooters or offensive players on the floor against Indiana.
Never have Kenyon and Chandler on the floor together. This goes against my initial theory to use a big lineup. But we are too easy to guard when both non-offensive post players in the game at the same time. Allows Hibbert and others to crowd the paint.
Use Chandler and Melo....and run some pick and roles, whenever Chandler or Kenyon is in the game. Needs to be high pick and rolls near the 3 pt line.
Then use Amari with shooters off the bench.....and have Hibbert guard him in that high post area. Amari will face up and distroy Hibbert with his first step move.
Once Hibbert is forced to move his feet, especially when hes far from the basket....He will show his weaknesses, which is his slow feet.
Stay away from his strength, which is his long arms and shot blocking abilities.
Easier said than done....I know! But thats all we have right now, with our roster makeup.
NardDogNation wrote:We need to pull Hibbert out of the paint but we also have to guard him on the other end of the floor. This smallball shit is not going to work against his length/strength because he'll manhandle his defender in the paint (just think of what he did against a legitimate 7ft 250lbs center in Tyson Chandler). If we beat him, I think it'll have to be by committee, which disrupts his ability to get comfortable since our big men are so diversely skilled.I think the rotation we play against Hibbert should be Tyson Chandler, Amare and Earl Barron; the later two being able to bring him out into the paint by shooting jumpers. If we keep fresh legs against him constantly, I like our chances because Hibbert has a terrible motor/stamina, and can't sustain his effort like a true cornerstone of a franchise. Rope-A-Dope him and see how we fair.
With all that being said, I'd also like to see what we can do by playing Chandler off of him. Tyson has been a pretty good help defender and might actually be able to better contest Hibbert's shot by helping against him on the weak side.
Excellent idea....Thats our centers strength....Including Camby. Both are better help defenders. Martin has a solid base, so it's hard to back him down. Once he tries to shoot over him, Chandler can be there to help.
I think both strategies will work.....I just think Copeland can be a real difference maker. Nobody on our team can guard Hibbert, so might as well beat him with offense.
NardDogNation wrote:We need to pull Hibbert out of the paint but we also have to guard him on the other end of the floor. This smallball shit is not going to work against his length/strength because he'll manhandle his defender in the paint (just think of what he did against a legitimate 7ft 250lbs center in Tyson Chandler). If we beat him, I think it'll have to be by committee, which disrupts his ability to get comfortable since our big men are so diversely skilled.I think the rotation we play against Hibbert should be Tyson Chandler, Amare and Earl Barron; the later two being able to bring him out into the paint by shooting jumpers. If we keep fresh legs against him constantly, I like our chances because Hibbert has a terrible motor/stamina, and can't sustain his effort like a true cornerstone of a franchise. Rope-A-Dope him and see how we fair.
With all that being said, I'd also like to see what we can do by playing Chandler off of him. Tyson has been a pretty good help defender and might actually be able to better contest Hibbert's shot by helping against him on the weak side.
I don't think we can beat indiana by putting a lineup on the floor for defense. Our best defensive lineup is still no match for old school post up centers.
We need to go back to an open the floor, dare I say....Dantoni system and launch some threes......With Cope playing center.
You can go with Barron who is very capable of hitting the jumper also Amare can pull Hibbert away also. I wouldn't go to small the Knicks will lose the rebounding battle.
Amare at the 5? If only he were healthy and had his legs and rhythm down
Nice posts. Basically, we need to remove Hibbert from the game, just like teams used to do with us and Ewing in the past. The difference being that Indiana isn't much without him. I say with him falling, they crumble. The year as a whole with Indiana has showed us that.
I don't understand how we have not absolutely attacked him (and I don't mean Melo driving against him every time up the court!). I mean Hibbert should be our plan. All effort to get him out of the game, both physically and mentally. There is no chance another good coach doesn't make Hibbert the center of their efforts. Watching us not adjust drastically to change his comfort is just alarming. We are playing to Indiana's strengths and it is so frustrating to see.
We haven't been getting our outside shots off either, but the Hibbert thing is front and center.
Cope can defend Hibbert with quick hands, Chandler can't, he relies on his height and frame and unfortunately, Hibbert is just bigger.
Amare is a perfect as well, and probably more likely to draw fouls on Hibbert than Cope is, but the idea is just to send wave after wave at Hibbert. Amare - 10-15 mins, Cope 15mins, etc. Find what works...
OasisBU wrote:Amare at the 5? If only he were healthy and had his legs and rhythm down
Just to draw him out. Hibbert on defense is killing us more than Hibbert on offense. And quick hands bother Hibbert. Chandler doesn't slow him down, Cope actually bothered him. Get faster guys on him.
You need to get Hibbert in a pick-and-roll situation....problem is that you need an attacking type PG that will force Hibbert to foul. Felton and Pablo does not attack the rim in PnR situations with a lot of gusto.
NYKBocker wrote:You need to get Hibbert in a pick-and-roll situation....problem is that you need an attacking type PG that will force Hibbert to foul. Felton and Pablo does not attack the rim in PnR situations with a lot of gusto.
I think Felton can but the problem is that the Pacers rotate effectively. There is limit margin of error with them defensively and just one of the things we have to account for when devising our offensive plan of attack.
earthmansurfer wrote:OasisBU wrote:Amare at the 5? If only he were healthy and had his legs and rhythm down
Just to draw him out. Hibbert on defense is killing us more than Hibbert on offense. And quick hands bother Hibbert. Chandler doesn't slow him down, Cope actually bothered him. Get faster guys on him.
You can put relatively fast guys on him without going that small though. Candidates for that would be Amare and Martin IMHO. Maybe Cope on him might be a good move but I'd like to see Chandler on the floor with that lineup as well, in order to help more effectively. I'm still skeptical of putting a 6"8 player on Hibbert through because people seem to forget that he's actually a solid jump shooting big man (his free throw shooting is better than 80%). I could just as easily see him shooting over his man in that situation but I suppose a jump shooting Hibbert is better than him in the paint.
hibbdawg is really all up in tyson's,
it's actually embarrassing for tyson, but very good for hibbertdawg because he's on a wild come-up
blkexec wrote:NardDogNation wrote:We need to pull Hibbert out of the paint but we also have to guard him on the other end of the floor. This smallball shit is not going to work against his length/strength because he'll manhandle his defender in the paint (just think of what he did against a legitimate 7ft 250lbs center in Tyson Chandler). If we beat him, I think it'll have to be by committee, which disrupts his ability to get comfortable since our big men are so diversely skilled.I think the rotation we play against Hibbert should be Tyson Chandler, Amare and Earl Barron; the later two being able to bring him out into the paint by shooting jumpers. If we keep fresh legs against him constantly, I like our chances because Hibbert has a terrible motor/stamina, and can't sustain his effort like a true cornerstone of a franchise. Rope-A-Dope him and see how we fair.
With all that being said, I'd also like to see what we can do by playing Chandler off of him. Tyson has been a pretty good help defender and might actually be able to better contest Hibbert's shot by helping against him on the weak side.
Excellent idea....Thats our centers strength....Including Camby. Both are better help defenders. Martin has a solid base, so it's hard to back him down. Once he tries to shoot over him, Chandler can be there to help.
I think both strategies will work.....I just think Copeland can be a real difference maker. Nobody on our team can guard Hibbert, so might as well beat him with offense.
With you guys explaining the Copeland strategy to me, I'm starting to come around to it but remain cautiously optimistic. Remember that Hibbert is actually a pretty good shooter (80%+ from the free throw line) and could very well spot up over smaller defenders. Like I said earlier, him shooting jump shots might be the better alternative to posting up, so lets see how it works. If Copeland is guarding him though, I feel that Chandler must be on the floor to serve as the help.
Woodson is particularly bland at making adjustments though, which is why he sucks as a playoff coach. I doubt we do anything different this game and for the series.
NardDogNation wrote:NYKBocker wrote:You need to get Hibbert in a pick-and-roll situation....problem is that you need an attacking type PG that will force Hibbert to foul. Felton and Pablo does not attack the rim in PnR situations with a lot of gusto.
I think Felton can but the problem is that the Pacers rotate effectively. There is limit margin of error with them defensively and just one of the things we have to account for when devising our offensive plan of attack.
Watch Felton in the PnR... H tends to drift to the sideline. This is due to lack of speed.
