Knicks · Shumpert Says Knicks' Season Is A Failure (page 1)
“I think we failed,’’ Shumpert said yesterday at the Knicks’ Tarrytown compound. “We failed to do what we were supposed to do. We know we were supposed to go farther and we didn’t. So it’s a fail.”“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’ Shumpert said. “Little things like not playing hard should never come into play. Letting a game slip at home [in Game 1] should never come into play. Getting beat on the boards when we know that’s a point of emphasis in the series shouldn’t happen. We’ve got to take care of the little things, and we didn’t. It finally caught up with us.”
The bold statement implies there were signs there even when the team was possibly 18-6 or 35-21 or 50-26
but then Pumpkin Head says this...
“Shump is right, it’s time to hold each other accountable,” he said. “But it’s easy to say that after the fact, sitting on the outside looking in.’’
“We set a standard,” Anthony said. “We kind of teased the city of New York. Because now everybody expects us to play at this high level. That’s how we hold ourselves accountable to come back and be at that level and even better.’’
WTH Theodore!!!!!...Shump is not on the outside, he's a Knick he's on the inside and he's speaking as a leader, although early in the yr you said he could never be considered one along with Amar'e and you never mentioned Tyson. You also said Shump would never get the blame but here he is, manning up while you're serving up Cookies and Milk.
You don't talk about accountability as the supposed leader after the fact or speak on teasing. No professional who's serious about their business looks at it that way.
I'm also sick of this team comparing what they've done to the previous Decade....No compare yourself to the 90's Knicks and the 70's Knicks and how you stack up
We're never gonna win with this dude as the face and leader of this franchise...he doesn't get it.
Big Up to Shumpert......I 100% agree with you. We didn't make the trade to be status quo or to get AT A BOYS after the fact in failure
YOUR WORDS AS A PLAYER "ON THE OUTSIDE" MATCHED THE PLAYER ON THE COURT ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK
Compared to bitchface Tyson, the "spiritual leader" and "heart and soul" of the team:
When asked if he felt he let his team down in the series against Indiana, Chandler said, "No, no. You cant let the team down if you give them 100 percent. I gave my teammates everything I had and Im fine with that."A large segment of the Knicks' fanbase may disagree with Chandler there. The Knicks' center was thoroughly outplayed by Roy Hibbert over six games.
Chandler...bitch of bitches! 
fishmike wrote:Shump... the guy our GM desperatly tried to trade for Steve Nash is the only keeper on this roster.
And for Dudley....because remember he was getting on Woody's nerves.
Now I wasn't against trading him for Dudley because at that moment in time Dudley was better(we were in WIN NOW mode) and still may be slightly better. It goes to show though when you show some patience with young players and they get the experience of winning, they can grow.
Looking forward to see him progress even more next season.
3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’
I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
SupremeCommander wrote:yea but the bad trends continue: Amare cant get on the floor, Melo sucks in the playoffs and Woody gets outcoached year after year. ISo-Melo is just as effective as Iso-Joe. Good for a .500 playoff record. Maybe you see round 2, maybe you dont.3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Its not doom and gloom. Its the reality of a poorly constructed roster coming to fruition, or whatever happens to stinky fruit
SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Accountability started as soon as we made the trade for Melo 2 1/2yrs ago...IMO it's been a long time already.
I think when it comes to Shump saying it, he truly means holding players(Smith/J.R./Tyson/Felton) responsible, because remember how the vets all broke Lin down after half a season and felt he didn't measure up? Yet we're supposed to give this team a 4th yr to figure out what accountability is?
Meanwhile when 8-11yr vet players like Melo/Tyson/Felton say it's about accountability....IT'S THE BORROWING OF TIME...schtik!!!
3G4G wrote:
but then Pumpkin Head says this...“Shump is right, it’s time to hold each other accountable,” he said. “But it’s easy to say that after the fact, sitting on the outside looking in.’’WTH Theodore!!!!!...Shump is not on the outside, he's a Knick he's on the inside and he's speaking as a leader, although early in the yr you said he could never be considered one along with Amar'e and you never mentioned Tyson. You also said Shump would never get the blame but here he is, manning up while you're serving up Cookies and Milk.
You don't talk about accountability as the supposed leader after the fact or speak on teasing. No professional who's serious about their business looks at it that way.
...
YOUR WORDS AS A PLAYER "ON THE OUTSIDE" MATCHED THE PLAYER ON THE COURT ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK
I think the context of outside/inside is meant to be: during playoffs (in the moment) and after it is all over (outside looking in/back), not what you are implying.
3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Accountability started as soon as we made the trade for Melo 2 1/2yrs ago...IMO it's been a long time already.
I think when it comes to Shump saying it, he truly means holding players(Smith/J.R./Tyson/Felton) responsible, because remember how the vets all broke Lin down after half a season and felt he didn't measure up? Yet we're supposed to give this team a 4th yr to figure out what accountability is?Meanwhile when 8-11yr vet players like Melo/Tyson/Felton say it's about accountability....IT'S THE BORROWING OF TIME...schtik!!!
that's fair but 2.5 years ago no one would have said losing in the 2nd round was a failure either
martin wrote:3G4G wrote:
but then Pumpkin Head says this...“Shump is right, it’s time to hold each other accountable,” he said. “But it’s easy to say that after the fact, sitting on the outside looking in.’’WTH Theodore!!!!!...Shump is not on the outside, he's a Knick he's on the inside and he's speaking as a leader, although early in the yr you said he could never be considered one along with Amar'e and you never mentioned Tyson. You also said Shump would never get the blame but here he is, manning up while you're serving up Cookies and Milk.
You don't talk about accountability as the supposed leader after the fact or speak on teasing. No professional who's serious about their business looks at it that way.
...
YOUR WORDS AS A PLAYER "ON THE OUTSIDE" MATCHED THE PLAYER ON THE COURT ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK
I think the context of outside/inside is meant to be: during playoffs (in the moment) and after it is all over (outside looking in/back), not what you are implying.
Even if we run with that...it tells me Shump was analyzing the team the whole time before and after the playoffs and he saw signs. While Melo is trying to imply it's easier to do it once the season is over. No it can be done fluidly but he doesn't take that approach.
Heck Melo was saying all yr....THE TEAM WILL BE FINE, WE'RE GOOD, THIS IS THE BEST TEAM TOP TO BOTTOM I'VE BEEN ON MY WHOLE CAREER...YADA YADA
SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Accountability started as soon as we made the trade for Melo 2 1/2yrs ago...IMO it's been a long time already.
I think when it comes to Shump saying it, he truly means holding players(Smith/J.R./Tyson/Felton) responsible, because remember how the vets all broke Lin down after half a season and felt he didn't measure up? Yet we're supposed to give this team a 4th yr to figure out what accountability is?Meanwhile when 8-11yr vet players like Melo/Tyson/Felton say it's about accountability....IT'S THE BORROWING OF TIME...schtik!!!
that's fair but 2.5 years ago no one would have said losing in the 2nd round was a failure either
I would have because we didn't give away our young assets and future to get bounced in the 2nd round and to be honest we didn't look good in the playoffs throughout.
I'd wager to say the team that played 18-6 ball looked far better than the team we saw in the Playoffs.
3G4G wrote:martin wrote:3G4G wrote:
but then Pumpkin Head says this...“Shump is right, it’s time to hold each other accountable,” he said. “But it’s easy to say that after the fact, sitting on the outside looking in.’’WTH Theodore!!!!!...Shump is not on the outside, he's a Knick he's on the inside and he's speaking as a leader, although early in the yr you said he could never be considered one along with Amar'e and you never mentioned Tyson. You also said Shump would never get the blame but here he is, manning up while you're serving up Cookies and Milk.
You don't talk about accountability as the supposed leader after the fact or speak on teasing. No professional who's serious about their business looks at it that way.
...
YOUR WORDS AS A PLAYER "ON THE OUTSIDE" MATCHED THE PLAYER ON THE COURT ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK
I think the context of outside/inside is meant to be: during playoffs (in the moment) and after it is all over (outside looking in/back), not what you are implying.
Even if we run with that...it tells me Shump was analyzing the team the whole time before and after the playoffs and he saw signs. While Melo is trying to imply it's easier to do it once the season is over. No it can be done fluidly but he doesn't take that approach.
Heck Melo was saying all yr....THE TEAM WILL BE FINE, WE'RE GOOD, THIS IS THE BEST TEAM TOP TO BOTTOM I'VE BEEN ON MY WHOLE CAREER...YADA YADA
methinks you are taking bits and pieces of quotes and trying to run with it
fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:yea but the bad trends continue: Amare cant get on the floor, Melo sucks in the playoffs and Woody gets outcoached year after year. ISo-Melo is just as effective as Iso-Joe. Good for a .500 playoff record. Maybe you see round 2, maybe you dont.3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Its not doom and gloom. Its the reality of a poorly constructed roster coming to fruition, or whatever happens to stinky fruit
I agree with your overall assessment, I just am focussing on the net positive. If the Knicks can get some young, dynamic talent - big if, I know - and replace the geriatric periphery pieces that couldn't hold up, the program will get better and improve.
That's what I see here. A program. Instead of some half assed hodge podge with no greater vision. The only major change I would want to see is a new GM. Short of that, I'm willing to give Woody the same amount of time Pringles got. And I also want to see what Melo can do if he can play a full season with Amar'e. Another big 'if' but that's the situation. I definitely don't want to be that crazy girlfriend that nitpicks at every flaw.
I've said this before on this messageboard - I can't think of one team in sports that won anything of consequence without the organization tasting bitterness of defeat/disappointment first. I want to see how these guys respond to what we all consider to be a failure of sorts. Not compare this team to the Heat but I think the Mavs had to beat them so those guys understood there are no shortcuts. I think/hope that's what happens to the Knicks
3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Accountability started as soon as we made the trade for Melo 2 1/2yrs ago...IMO it's been a long time already.
I think when it comes to Shump saying it, he truly means holding players(Smith/J.R./Tyson/Felton) responsible, because remember how the vets all broke Lin down after half a season and felt he didn't measure up? Yet we're supposed to give this team a 4th yr to figure out what accountability is?Meanwhile when 8-11yr vet players like Melo/Tyson/Felton say it's about accountability....IT'S THE BORROWING OF TIME...schtik!!!
that's fair but 2.5 years ago no one would have said losing in the 2nd round was a failure either
I would have because we didn't give away our young assets and future to get bounced in the 2nd round and to be honest we didn't look good in the playoffs throughout.
I'd wager to say the team that played 18-6 ball looked far better than the team we saw in the Playoffs.
(1) we didn't look good in the playoffs
(2) you would have considered a 2nd round exit 2 years ago a failure? Really?
SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Accountability started as soon as we made the trade for Melo 2 1/2yrs ago...IMO it's been a long time already.
I think when it comes to Shump saying it, he truly means holding players(Smith/J.R./Tyson/Felton) responsible, because remember how the vets all broke Lin down after half a season and felt he didn't measure up? Yet we're supposed to give this team a 4th yr to figure out what accountability is?Meanwhile when 8-11yr vet players like Melo/Tyson/Felton say it's about accountability....IT'S THE BORROWING OF TIME...schtik!!!
that's fair but 2.5 years ago no one would have said losing in the 2nd round was a failure either
I would have because we didn't give away our young assets and future to get bounced in the 2nd round and to be honest we didn't look good in the playoffs throughout.
I'd wager to say the team that played 18-6 ball looked far better than the team we saw in the Playoffs.
(1) we didn't look good in the playoffs
(2) you would have considered a 2nd round exit 2 years ago a failure? Really?
In 2010 when we had tons of cap space, if I were told our peak over the next 3 years was a 2nd round exit, I'd have considered that a huge failure.
Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Accountability started as soon as we made the trade for Melo 2 1/2yrs ago...IMO it's been a long time already.
I think when it comes to Shump saying it, he truly means holding players(Smith/J.R./Tyson/Felton) responsible, because remember how the vets all broke Lin down after half a season and felt he didn't measure up? Yet we're supposed to give this team a 4th yr to figure out what accountability is?Meanwhile when 8-11yr vet players like Melo/Tyson/Felton say it's about accountability....IT'S THE BORROWING OF TIME...schtik!!!
that's fair but 2.5 years ago no one would have said losing in the 2nd round was a failure either
I would have because we didn't give away our young assets and future to get bounced in the 2nd round and to be honest we didn't look good in the playoffs throughout.
I'd wager to say the team that played 18-6 ball looked far better than the team we saw in the Playoffs.
(1) we didn't look good in the playoffs
(2) you would have considered a 2nd round exit 2 years ago a failure? Really?
In 2010 when we had tons of cap space, if I were told our peak over the next 3 years was a 2nd round exit, I'd have considered that a huge failure.
I am not arguing about this season. I would of thought it a failure then and I think of this postseason as a failure too.
My point was that expectations evolve. Two years ago, if the Knicks made the playoffs two years ago and lost in the second round, that would have been a success. Maybe I misread something originally and that's where the miscommunication is stemming from
SupremeCommander wrote:fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:yea but the bad trends continue: Amare cant get on the floor, Melo sucks in the playoffs and Woody gets outcoached year after year. ISo-Melo is just as effective as Iso-Joe. Good for a .500 playoff record. Maybe you see round 2, maybe you dont.3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Its not doom and gloom. Its the reality of a poorly constructed roster coming to fruition, or whatever happens to stinky fruit
I agree with your overall assessment, I just am focussing on the net positive. If the Knicks can get some young, dynamic talent - big if, I know - and replace the geriatric periphery pieces that couldn't hold up, the program will get better and improve.
That's what I see here. A program. Instead of some half assed hodge podge with no greater vision. The only major change I would want to see is a new GM. Short of that, I'm willing to give Woody the same amount of time Pringles got. And I also want to see what Melo can do if he can play a full season with Amar'e. Another big 'if' but that's the situation. I definitely don't want to be that crazy girlfriend that nitpicks at every flaw.
I've said this before on this messageboard - I can't think of one team in sports that won anything of consequence without the organization tasting bitterness of defeat/disappointment first. I want to see how these guys respond to what we all consider to be a failure of sorts. Not compare this team to the Heat but I think the Mavs had to beat them so those guys understood there are no shortcuts. I think/hope that's what happens to the Knicks
sorry i think you're way way off here: d'antoni's "real time" lasted from november 2010 to february 2011. then the team traded all its decent young players-- the same ones you are asking for now!-- for one overrated volume streak shooter who doesn't play defense and doesn't make others around him better.
and we had a program in place with walsh-- demolish the isaiah mess over the course of d'antoni's first two years and at the start of the third year have the semblance of a new era with young players. people here may not agree with walsh's decision to hire d'antoni but he was working from a plan. acquiring carmelo was not working from a plan it was "let's throw some sh!t on the canvas and call it art."
amare and anthony will NEVER mesh because they share the same flaws while occupying the same floor space.
Bonn1997 wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:3G4G wrote:“Just we’ve got to hold each other accountable, come next year,’’I think you missed the single most important line of what Shump said. This is also why I am not as freaked out as the rest of this messageboard. Barges take a long time to turnaround. It wasn't that long ago everyone was getting in the truck and eating McDonald's before tipoff
Accountability started as soon as we made the trade for Melo 2 1/2yrs ago...IMO it's been a long time already.
I think when it comes to Shump saying it, he truly means holding players(Smith/J.R./Tyson/Felton) responsible, because remember how the vets all broke Lin down after half a season and felt he didn't measure up? Yet we're supposed to give this team a 4th yr to figure out what accountability is?Meanwhile when 8-11yr vet players like Melo/Tyson/Felton say it's about accountability....IT'S THE BORROWING OF TIME...schtik!!!
that's fair but 2.5 years ago no one would have said losing in the 2nd round was a failure either
I would have because we didn't give away our young assets and future to get bounced in the 2nd round and to be honest we didn't look good in the playoffs throughout.
I'd wager to say the team that played 18-6 ball looked far better than the team we saw in the Playoffs.
(1) we didn't look good in the playoffs
(2) you would have considered a 2nd round exit 2 years ago a failure? Really?
In 2010 when we had tons of cap space, if I were told our peak over the next 3 years was a 2nd round exit, I'd have considered that a huge failure.
I would think most fans would strongly reconsider making that trade if this is where we would arrive foreknown knowledge. Especially as we embark on re-gutting half the roster at a minimum....because remember it was mostly everyone else's fault but Melo's.