Finestrg wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I would do a JR trade for either Ellis or Jennings. Is this what it has come to?
Not the deal I want -- I want no part of either guy. Ellis is a FA anyway...Another reason why JR Smith is a fit for Milwaukee btw -- Ellis, JJ Redick and Mike Dunleavy are all FAs. If none of those guys are retained, there's a huge hole on that club at the 2/perimeter shooting. The Bucks obviously feel JR Smith is comparable value to Monta Ellis that they can get for far less than what it would take to resign Ellis or Ellis AND Redick (esp. if they can get Smith at that reduced Knicks S&T price). It makes sense for them to hash out a S&T for Smith with us, along with Copeland if we can find a way to use Cope as a sweetener here too.
well I take it back then - I would love to replace JR with JJ Reddick. I think he provides exactly what the Knicks need at SG. Maybe promote SHump to be the lead gun off the bench
I mean Smith isnt perfect but he would be solid replacement for Ellis at a cheaper price likely.
Jr and his handlers have to understand while NY is a big pressure cooker he has benefited from being some what favored by playing in the shadow of Melo and Amare while not having big expectations.
Knick fans know he is a bone head but he is our bone head. In NY he has a support system that has helped him. While the clubs in NYC are not helpful he at least has kept out of trouble except for a few dumb tweets. In a Smaller town he'll be under pressure of a bigger contract and his cred will not help if he faulters under theat expectation.
He is basically a good kid but has issues.
Ellis is likley not in our reach or likley a good fit and I really don't want Jennings here. I know walsh regrets not drafting him but perhaps more so that his trade value might have been higher. Jennings had Skiles behind him and he really did well with that. In NY with MDA and the "Mecca" pressure might not have yielded the same result that he produced in Milwaukee.
But if you really think about it, because of our preference of going with proven talent, OTHER THAN MELO who we paid full retail for, we are going to get pickings from the scrap heap. By that, Amare was defective and we only got him because we over paid him, JR because he was a free agent bone head, and a bunch of guys cuz they old.
Every year there are guys who get caught in a squeeze and need opportunity. Cope, Extra E, Lin, and Novak are prime examples. They need further developement. JJ Reddick is another example.
Could we get Ellis back in a sign and trade with JR and Copeland if he doesnt use his early termination Probably way to many fluid pieces to make that work
Seems to be a little confusion in this thread so I just wanted to help clear things up.
Regarding sign-and-trades. We can sign-and-trade our own free agents to other teams but other teams can't sign-and-trade their players to us.
We have JR's early bird rights so we can sign him to a contract worth around $5M/year. We can't go any higher than that. Any sign-and-trade with JR would mean he can't get a contract worth more than that.
There won't be any poison pill contract with JR. Poison pills only happen with restricted free agents coming off their rookie contracts.
All that being said I highly doubt we could work out a sign-and-trade for JR to Milwaukee. JR would have to agree to go to Milwaukee in a sign-and-trade and the only reason I could imagine that he would is if they offered him a larger contract than we can. So, if Milwaukee offered JR a contract worth $8M/year we can't sign-and-trade because we could only offer him a contract worth about $5M/year. Of course, we could just resign JR and trade him later on. For all his knuckle-headedness, JR at $5M/year is a nice asset as a player and as a trade chip.
The problem as I understand it with any sign and trade involving JR is that if someone offers him more money why would he do the Knicks a favor by signing a bargain deal knowing that he's going to be traded?
Jmpasq wrote:Could we get Ellis back in a sign and trade with JR and Copeland if he doesnt use his early termination Probably way to many fluid pieces to make that work
Ellis is worst than JR... Still a chucker, high volume shooter.. JR is better defensively, as Ellis' D is almost non existant. Ellis is a tweener, smaller guard. For all that, i'd rather keep the inconsistent play of JR.
JayNYC wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Could we get Ellis back in a sign and trade with JR and Copeland if he doesnt use his early termination Probably way to many fluid pieces to make that work
Ellis is worst than JR... Still a chucker, high volume shooter.. JR is better defensively, as Ellis' D is almost non existant. Ellis is a tweener, smaller guard. For all that, i'd rather keep the inconsistent play of JR.
Worse then JR give me a break. Shoots at a much higher rate for his career plus throw in 6 assists a game.Also speaking on the terms of nothing or Ellis not actively trying to get him
VCoug wrote:Seems to be a little confusion in this thread so I just wanted to help clear things up.Regarding sign-and-trades. We can sign-and-trade our own free agents to other teams but other teams can't sign-and-trade their players to us.
We have JR's early bird rights so we can sign him to a contract worth around $5M/year. We can't go any higher than that. Any sign-and-trade with JR would mean he can't get a contract worth more than that.
There won't be any poison pill contract with JR. Poison pills only happen with restricted free agents coming off their rookie contracts.
All that being said I highly doubt we could work out a sign-and-trade for JR to Milwaukee. JR would have to agree to go to Milwaukee in a sign-and-trade and the only reason I could imagine that he would is if they offered him a larger contract than we can. So, if Milwaukee offered JR a contract worth $8M/year we can't sign-and-trade because we could only offer him a contract worth about $5M/year. Of course, we could just resign JR and trade him later on. For all his knuckle-headedness, JR at $5M/year is a nice asset as a player and as a trade chip.
We could do a sign and trade but why would JR do it your right. Copeland might be a different story but the only way that could happen is if the Bucks wanted to get rid of a contract off their books and even then they might be able to sign Cope outright then deal said player for a draft pick and trade exemption. Basically the Knicks are FD big time.I see no way of making this team more competitive next season outside of keeping everyone and hoping they fall into the rookie of the year at #24
SupremeCommander wrote:Finestrg wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I would do a JR trade for either Ellis or Jennings. Is this what it has come to?
Not the deal I want -- I want no part of either guy. Ellis is a FA anyway...Another reason why JR Smith is a fit for Milwaukee btw -- Ellis, JJ Redick and Mike Dunleavy are all FAs. If none of those guys are retained, there's a huge hole on that club at the 2/perimeter shooting. The Bucks obviously feel JR Smith is comparable value to Monta Ellis that they can get for far less than what it would take to resign Ellis or Ellis AND Redick (esp. if they can get Smith at that reduced Knicks S&T price). It makes sense for them to hash out a S&T for Smith with us, along with Copeland if we can find a way to use Cope as a sweetener here too.
well I take it back then - I would love to replace JR with JJ Reddick. I think he provides exactly what the Knicks need at SG. Maybe promote SHump to be the lead gun off the bench
Shump is a starter- moving him to 6th man is demoting him, not a promotion. He should stay as a starter, it's good for his confidence and growth, he's not a big enough threat offensively to be an instant offense player, better off with Reddick as the 6th man in that scenario.
Jmpasq wrote:JayNYC wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Could we get Ellis back in a sign and trade with JR and Copeland if he doesnt use his early termination Probably way to many fluid pieces to make that work
Ellis is worst than JR... Still a chucker, high volume shooter.. JR is better defensively, as Ellis' D is almost non existant. Ellis is a tweener, smaller guard. For all that, i'd rather keep the inconsistent play of JR.
Worse then JR give me a break. Shoots at a much higher rate for his career plus throw in 6 assists a game.Also speaking on the terms of nothing or Ellis not actively trying to get him
Ellis is NOT better than JR. He averages 2 or 3 more assists a game but plays NO defense. I'd rather a guy with a slightly lower shooting percentage that plays defense than I would a Slightly better shooter that plays NO defense. Who cares if you can score twenty if the guy your guarding is dropping 30.
Jmpasq wrote:JayNYC wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Could we get Ellis back in a sign and trade with JR and Copeland if he doesnt use his early termination Probably way to many fluid pieces to make that work
Ellis is worst than JR... Still a chucker, high volume shooter.. JR is better defensively, as Ellis' D is almost non existant. Ellis is a tweener, smaller guard. For all that, i'd rather keep the inconsistent play of JR.
Worse then JR give me a break. Shoots at a much higher rate for his career plus throw in 6 assists a game.Also speaking on the terms of nothing or Ellis not actively trying to get him
We disagree.. Ellis would be a lateral move. If you're speaking in terms of losing JR for nothing .. then let him walk. Why take on additional salary For a player that won't be
An upgrade at the position?
JayNYC wrote:Jmpasq wrote:JayNYC wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Could we get Ellis back in a sign and trade with JR and Copeland if he doesnt use his early termination Probably way to many fluid pieces to make that work
Ellis is worst than JR... Still a chucker, high volume shooter.. JR is better defensively, as Ellis' D is almost non existant. Ellis is a tweener, smaller guard. For all that, i'd rather keep the inconsistent play of JR.
Worse then JR give me a break. Shoots at a much higher rate for his career plus throw in 6 assists a game.Also speaking on the terms of nothing or Ellis not actively trying to get him
We disagree.. Ellis would be a lateral move. If you're speaking in terms of losing JR for nothing .. then let him walk. Why take on additional salary For a player that won't be
An upgrade at the position?
I think the idea is not to lose talent. This team isn't overflowing with quality talent. We can't afford to lose players who were key parts of the team and not replace them. I'd rather take on Ellis in a trade for JR than to just see JR walk for nothing. Who knows maybe Ellis can hit a shot in the playoffs 
You're all missing the most important point: Ellis has one of the worst shot releases in 2k. How am I supposed to blowout people with the Knicks with his f'ed up shot animation. This is a serious issue...
