Knicks · The Brooklyn Nets can beat the Heat (page 5)
codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
Bonn1997 wrote:I'm not sure he's right but I found this quote interesting:
"the Nets certainly have the best starting lineup, talent-wise, in the NBA," - Jeff Van Gundy
If they're healthy, I think I'd still rather have OKC's or Miami's starting lineup.
+1 this guy knows his stuff!
loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
Yes I'm aware that this is his opinion. He is right or wrong with varying frequency. I can enumerate some of these instances if that's helpful.
codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
Yes I'm aware that this is his opinion. He is right or wrong with varying frequency. I can enumerate some of these instances if that's helpful.
Yes, and....???
codeunknown wrote:The Nets made a poor decision. Depending on the Knicks back-up point guard situation, they're likely to remain better than the Nets this season.
basketball is a game of skill and highly-skilled all-around players like garnett and pierce can remain effective for quite a while. the main aspect of their effectiveness is creating offensive cohesion which leads to synergy, ie where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. the most impressive thing about garnett and pierce is their passing games and court vision. there is no substitute for BBIQ.
i think the nets have challenges in terms of cohesion only if johnson refuses to be a team player. i think williams will thrive playing alongside both garnett and pierce because he will not be under such pressure to orchestrate. kidd and prigioni had the same salutary effect on felton and we can agree that williams is a better player than felton. johnson is not as bad as anthony at undermining cohesion but it will still be a challenge.
obviously the issue will be keeping the minutes to between 24-28 minutes a night but they ought to be a very strong team next season, barring injury.
best of all it will make for a great rivalry.
loweyecue wrote:Do the Nets still have their amnesty clause and did the acquire Joe Johnson before he new CBA? He is the question mark on the team - a mini Melo of sorts. Selfish one dimensional player with bad attitude and inability to work in the team concept. But his ME-itis is not as bad as MElo.
They used the amnesty already on Travis Outlaw and they wouldn't be able to use it on Joe Johnson anyway because he was acquired after the new CBA.
loweyecue wrote:Looks like the Nets will keep Evans and trade Brooks instead. That makes their bench a little more respectable in my opinion. They are also looking at Jason Collins for the vet min.I thought they were looking at Twin if they moved EVans. It doesn't seem like he is a need anymore.
yellowboy90 wrote:Pierce was being guarded by Felton and was getting shut down. Also, who guards the opposing wings or 4s for that matter. Garnnet is a rim protector now. He is not someone I want on 4s.
Agreed. Everyone thought Garnett was washed up two years ago until he made the switch to center. Defensively, you're looking at Pierce who shouldn't be counted on to defend for long stretches; Lopez, who can only guard centers; and Garnett, whose best position defensively is center. That needs to be sorted out.
1 first round loser team + 1 first round loser team = 1 first round loser team!
Pierce and DWill, perfect together!
Yes, I can see the Truth sitting on the bench, patiently waiting for his rookie coach and bleary eyed, retread, co-coaching life coach Frank to let him in the game.
KG and Bropez! Who will spend more time on the IR?
Will head coaching give JKidd more time for quality drinking?
Does his epic end to last season somehow give him even more cred, now that he's in a suit and tie?
If the Knicks pulled this type of shit move, this board would be puking on itself and eating it:
Built to only win now!
Terribly small window!
Giving away draft picks!
The yoots, we're giving away the yoots!
loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
the same talking heads had the Natz leading the Atlantic and finishing ahead of the Knicks. They (many, many of them) are no more knowledgeable than we are. Got to wait, let the games be played and what will be will be but, I don't see any of them as real guru's
loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
Can hardly wait to hear Barkley's prognostication, too! [Again]
jrodmc wrote:loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
Can hardly wait to hear Barkley's prognostication, too! [Again]
You love this don't you? All ficated on the nets instead of the knicks, all fixated on what others are saying about what others are saying about what others are saying about what others are saying!
Its almost like your sort of in the closet about the Nyets and put on a "NyetPhobic" patina as a way of hiding it!
Nalod wrote:jrodmc wrote:loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
Can hardly wait to hear Barkley's prognostication, too! [Again]
You love this don't you? All ficated on the nets instead of the knicks, all fixated on what others are saying about what others are saying about what others are saying about what others are saying!
Its almost like your sort of in the closet about the Nyets and put on a "NyetPhobic" patina as a way of hiding it!
Yeah, well it's a Nyets thread. I'm sort of funny that way.
And please stop with the "all too PC, I'm sure not a homophobe" aura to your replies.
By the way, the reverse psyche angle just doesn't become you, Dr. Nalod. You're much better than that. Even in the off season.
jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:jrodmc wrote:loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
Can hardly wait to hear Barkley's prognostication, too! [Again]
You love this don't you? All ficated on the nets instead of the knicks, all fixated on what others are saying about what others are saying about what others are saying about what others are saying!
Its almost like your sort of in the closet about the Nyets and put on a "NyetPhobic" patina as a way of hiding it!
Yeah, well it's a Nyets thread. I'm sort of funny that way.
And please stop with the "all too PC, I'm sure not a homophobe" aura to your replies.
By the way, the reverse psyche angle just doesn't become you, Dr. Nalod. You're much better than that. Even in the off season.
"NyetPhobic" is not a lifestyle choice!
Nalod wrote:jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:jrodmc wrote:loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
Can hardly wait to hear Barkley's prognostication, too! [Again]
You love this don't you? All ficated on the nets instead of the knicks, all fixated on what others are saying about what others are saying about what others are saying about what others are saying!
Its almost like your sort of in the closet about the Nyets and put on a "NyetPhobic" patina as a way of hiding it!
Yeah, well it's a Nyets thread. I'm sort of funny that way.
And please stop with the "all too PC, I'm sure not a homophobe" aura to your replies.
By the way, the reverse psyche angle just doesn't become you, Dr. Nalod. You're much better than that. Even in the off season."NyetPhobic" is not a lifestyle choice!
Then why would a closet reference be required?!?
How does one handle one's "NyetEnablement"? "Nyetchosis"?
loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
Yes I'm aware that this is his opinion. He is right or wrong with varying frequency. I can enumerate some of these instances if that's helpful.
Yes, and....???
And while it may make you feel better, referencing his opinion does little to convince me.
dk7th wrote:codeunknown wrote:The Nets made a poor decision. Depending on the Knicks back-up point guard situation, they're likely to remain better than the Nets this season.basketball is a game of skill and highly-skilled all-around players like garnett and pierce can remain effective for quite a while. the main aspect of their effectiveness is creating offensive cohesion which leads to synergy, ie where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. the most impressive thing about garnett and pierce is their passing games and court vision. there is no substitute for BBIQ.
i think the nets have challenges in terms of cohesion only if johnson refuses to be a team player. i think williams will thrive playing alongside both garnett and pierce because he will not be under such pressure to orchestrate. kidd and prigioni had the same salutary effect on felton and we can agree that williams is a better player than felton. johnson is not as bad as anthony at undermining cohesion but it will still be a challenge.
obviously the issue will be keeping the minutes to between 24-28 minutes a night but they ought to be a very strong team next season, barring injury.
best of all it will make for a great rivalry.
Johnson isn't the core issue, although he makes for a good scapegoat.
Their pieces aren't arranged appropriately. It's true that basketball sense is essential to doing well - as is the physical substrate in which it is housed. Again, a good team, but one that won't defeat the Heat or Pacers.
codeunknown wrote:dk7th wrote:codeunknown wrote:The Nets made a poor decision. Depending on the Knicks back-up point guard situation, they're likely to remain better than the Nets this season.basketball is a game of skill and highly-skilled all-around players like garnett and pierce can remain effective for quite a while. the main aspect of their effectiveness is creating offensive cohesion which leads to synergy, ie where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. the most impressive thing about garnett and pierce is their passing games and court vision. there is no substitute for BBIQ.
i think the nets have challenges in terms of cohesion only if johnson refuses to be a team player. i think williams will thrive playing alongside both garnett and pierce because he will not be under such pressure to orchestrate. kidd and prigioni had the same salutary effect on felton and we can agree that williams is a better player than felton. johnson is not as bad as anthony at undermining cohesion but it will still be a challenge.
obviously the issue will be keeping the minutes to between 24-28 minutes a night but they ought to be a very strong team next season, barring injury.
best of all it will make for a great rivalry.
Johnson isn't the core issue, although he makes for a good scapegoat.
Their pieces aren't arranged appropriately. It's true that basketball sense is essential to doing well - as is the physical substrate in which it is housed. Again, a good team, but one that won't defeat the Heat or Pacers.
well your point was that the knicks would be the better team, pending the backup point guard situation. i don't see the clumsiness-- that's the term phil jackson used to describe the knicks roster last season-- i dont see that clumsiness with the nets roster that you are implying here.
the center is the center, the point guard is the point guard, the power forward is the power forward.
so far so good.
the only issue i see is where pierce and johnson play on the floor. with pierce it does not matter if he is below or above the free throw line because he is comfortable anywhere... so that basically leaves johnson needing to operate from specific spots where he needs to be comfortable.
where else is the there an inappropriate arrangement?
DurzoBlint wrote:loweyecue wrote:codeunknown wrote:loweyecue wrote:You think Deron williams and Jason Terry cannot penetrate? What teams have three point shooting at the 5 position? Both Pierce and Joe Johnson can draw double teams and can play off each other. I just have a ton of respect for Pierce's game and what he can do. He has deinitely slowed down but he is an incredibly crafty ballplayer.No Terry can't and he's also not part of the starting 5 - which is what you were discussing. Williams' drive is reasonable but aimed more recently at setting up a pull-up jumper, partly evidenced by his declining free throw attempts, last year at only 4.7 per game. The remainder are 1 on 1 mid range players that are serviceable but declining.
Well apparently JVG also thinks the Nets have the best starting 5 in basketball. Go figure.
the same talking heads had the Natz leading the Atlantic and finishing ahead of the Knicks. They (many, many of them) are no more knowledgeable than we are. Got to wait, let the games be played and what will be will be but, I don't see any of them as real guru's
So you are suggesting you know more or as much about basketball as JVG? OK