Knicks · grading the moves: early summer progress report (page 1)

Bargs, A+

this guy gives us a new dimension on offense, he crumbled under the pressure of being a #1 overall in toronto, he can't carry a team, too much nap-time mentality,

as the third scoring option, he can give you some punch. legit 7 footer who can drain the long twines, guy can drop 30 on you any given night, and 20 on your head in maybe 15% of your games, you take that.

JR SWAG, S

satisfactory, we all knew he would come home and stay, it's too good for him here and him woodson and melo have the trifecta there, too comfortable,

for better or nothin, he's our 2nd scorer, maybe some overlap in that scoring rank with bargs, but he will shoot more than bargs i'm pretty sure, on any given night,

Tim JR, A+

name doesn't hurt, go for it, seems like he can drop buckets in rookie year,

CJ Leslie A

Bargs D actually thought the player was a good 1 to take a swing on with Amare being the piece being shipped out.Like Novak and Camby being gone but once again we add extra pieces that we shouldnt that makes the deal a loser.People act like 2nds are worthless because of the quality of player but they also could facilitate another deal in the future. The Raptors would of still done this deal with just the first I truly believe it.

Copeland - losing Copeland F At first I didnt want to bring back Copeland because I was against adding 2015 salary but since we r doing that anyway we should of kept him. The Pacers wanting him even further angers me. Choosing Pablo over Copeland is a mistake Copeland is better

JR F This was Pass or Fail after watching the playoffs anything longer then 2 years or 3 with a Team option was an automatic F

Pacers wanted Gerald Green and are trying to trade him. Cope is just out of the price range. Nothing NY could do about that except be proactive with their future Euro signings and inlude a team option.

Jmpasq wrote:Bargs D actually thought the player was a good 1 to take a swing on with Amare being the piece being shipped out.Like Novak and Camby being gone but once again we add extra pieces that we shouldnt that makes the deal a loser.People act like 2nds are worthless because of the quality of player but they also could facilitate another deal in the future. The Raptors would of still done this deal with just the first I truly believe it.

Copeland - losing Copeland F At first I didnt want to bring back Copeland because I was against adding 2015 salary but since we r doing that anyway we should of kept him. The Pacers wanting him even further angers me. Choosing Pablo over Copeland is a mistake Copeland is better

JR F This was Pass or Fail after watching the playoffs anything longer then 2 years or 3 with a Team option was an automatic F

One of the second round picks traded is the
Pick from the brewer trade. Currently it is projected to be the second to last pick in the draft. That one isn't a big deal. The other pick is a second round pick four years from now. I think if you are sweating that pick you are over thinking things. I posted in another thread that the Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their roster last year and 7 of those guys were top 5 picks. You definitely can find guys in the second round but it isn't the norm.

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Bargs D actually thought the player was a good 1 to take a swing on with Amare being the piece being shipped out.Like Novak and Camby being gone but once again we add extra pieces that we shouldnt that makes the deal a loser.People act like 2nds are worthless because of the quality of player but they also could facilitate another deal in the future. The Raptors would of still done this deal with just the first I truly believe it.

Copeland - losing Copeland F At first I didnt want to bring back Copeland because I was against adding 2015 salary but since we r doing that anyway we should of kept him. The Pacers wanting him even further angers me. Choosing Pablo over Copeland is a mistake Copeland is better

JR F This was Pass or Fail after watching the playoffs anything longer then 2 years or 3 with a Team option was an automatic F

One of the second round picks traded is the
Pick from the brewer trade. Currently it is projected to be the second to last pick in the draft. That one isn't a big deal. The other pick is a second round pick four years from now. I think if you are sweating that pick you are over thinking things. I posted in another thread that the Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their roster last year and 7 of those guys were top 5 picks. You definitely can find guys in the second round but it isn't the norm.

I think too much is made about the Picks. Those picks are not going to be the difference maker for this team down the line. The 1st rd pick is the only thing of real value we gave up and even then it's probably a role player with no guarantee of being good. It will be so easy to pick up 2nd rd picks in other ways between now and then. It's not the end of the world. AB is the kind of player Woody can work on to try and get more out of. He's been able to have some success with other guys, so perhaps he can get thru to a motivated AB this time. If he does then we got a steal.

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Bargs D actually thought the player was a good 1 to take a swing on with Amare being the piece being shipped out.Like Novak and Camby being gone but once again we add extra pieces that we shouldnt that makes the deal a loser.People act like 2nds are worthless because of the quality of player but they also could facilitate another deal in the future. The Raptors would of still done this deal with just the first I truly believe it.

Copeland - losing Copeland F At first I didnt want to bring back Copeland because I was against adding 2015 salary but since we r doing that anyway we should of kept him. The Pacers wanting him even further angers me. Choosing Pablo over Copeland is a mistake Copeland is better

JR F This was Pass or Fail after watching the playoffs anything longer then 2 years or 3 with a Team option was an automatic F

One of the second round picks traded is the
Pick from the brewer trade. Currently it is projected to be the second to last pick in the draft. That one isn't a big deal. The other pick is a second round pick four years from now. I think if you are sweating that pick you are over thinking things. I posted in another thread that the Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their roster last year and 7 of those guys were top 5 picks. You definitely can find guys in the second round but it isn't the norm.

Again giving them away like they r worthless like the Knicks isnt a way to do business. Another player could become available and with that pick and a non guaranteed contract he could be a Knick. I just wish they would be a little more shrewd.

U dont get frustrated watching the Knicks pay the absolute maximum amount they can on every single transaction. They lose every trade, they lose every signing, no foresight for a team option on Copeland its unreal. We will never win a title with an organization that is run this poorly

Walk away from an fing deal once in awhile. We had to have Bargs so bad we needed to give up 3 draft picks. No other possible deal could of been made. I dont believe that

Is Bargs 10 times more the salary and 3 draft picks better then Copeland? They both r stretch 4's.Couldnt keep Copeland and make a move with those picks for a PG.Again i actually liked the fit of Bargs but did we have to jacked up on the deal to get him

This again goes back to overpaying Novak in the 1st place. Why did we give him 4 years. If it was 3 years or 2 years we trade him anywhere.Constantly paying premium on every thing they do

I personally think it is way too early to grade anything yet. People are not even able to sign contracts yet. My grade on some of the early moves depends on how the rest of our moves shape up. I need to see the overall vision our Gm has for the team.

I was a bit down when it looked like we'd added bargs and were losing JR, Prigs and Cope, however now we've kept JR and Prigs, adding Bargs to the mix doesn't seem so bad- don't have high hopes for him, but talent wise he's just replacing Novak. Like the two rookies we've added too. Hopefully if Cope goes, we replace him with Shawne Williams. I'd also like to see us sign one or two of these:

Brand
Matt Barnes
Jared Jeffries
3rd string PG

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Bargs D actually thought the player was a good 1 to take a swing on with Amare being the piece being shipped out.Like Novak and Camby being gone but once again we add extra pieces that we shouldnt that makes the deal a loser.People act like 2nds are worthless because of the quality of player but they also could facilitate another deal in the future. The Raptors would of still done this deal with just the first I truly believe it.

Copeland - losing Copeland F At first I didnt want to bring back Copeland because I was against adding 2015 salary but since we r doing that anyway we should of kept him. The Pacers wanting him even further angers me. Choosing Pablo over Copeland is a mistake Copeland is better

JR F This was Pass or Fail after watching the playoffs anything longer then 2 years or 3 with a Team option was an automatic F

One of the second round picks traded is the
Pick from the brewer trade. Currently it is projected to be the second to last pick in the draft. That one isn't a big deal. The other pick is a second round pick four years from now. I think if you are sweating that pick you are over thinking things. I posted in another thread that the Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their roster last year and 7 of those guys were top 5 picks. You definitely can find guys in the second round but it isn't the norm.

Again giving them away like they r worthless like the Knicks isnt a way to do business. Another player could become available and with that pick and a non guaranteed contract he could be a Knick. I just wish they would be a little more shrewd.

U dont get frustrated watching the Knicks pay the absolute maximum amount they can on every single transaction. They lose every trade, they lose every signing, no foresight for a team option on Copeland its unreal. We will never win a title with an organization that is run this poorly

Walk away from an fing deal once in awhile. We had to have Bargs so bad we needed to give up 3 draft picks. No other possible deal could of been made. I dont believe that

Is Bargs 10 times more the salary and 3 draft picks better then Copeland? They both r stretch 4's.Couldnt keep Copeland and make a move with those picks for a PG.Again i actually liked the fit of Bargs but did we have to jacked up on the deal to get him

This again goes back to overpaying Novak in the 1st place. Why did we give him 4 years. If it was 3 years or 2 years we trade him anywhere.Constantly paying premium on every thing they do

The Knicks got the one pick when they moved brewer. The other second rounder is for four years from now. I don't see any reason to worry about those moves. The pick from OKC is projected to be the 59th pick in the draft. The first rounder is the one that has some value but again it is a compromised pick because of Denver's right to switch and projects to be a later first round pick. Grunwald isn't throwing around picks like previous gms. They were already all gone. He also got rid of two guys that had bad contracts and were not a part of things anyway. I can't imagine being the team that has Fields, Camby and Novak's contracts on the same roster. That is a lot of money tied up in marginal guys or guys that are done.

I can't wait to see how people will react when they see a more motivated AB out there helping this team win games. This is a guy who not long ago was scoring 20 ppg. We really needed to add legit weapons out there to help Melo. Right now this team is starting to look much better than last year. We got rid of all the ancient guys and are actually getting younger and more potent. AB is in his prime and if he's healthy and happy as I would expect I think people are going to be surprised at how much he adds to what this team does. Just name the Knick players we had who could score from anywhere on the floor effectively and had a mismatch almost every game? We had Melo and JR and that was it. Now we have another guy teams have to worry about ALL THE TIME and his game actually fits with Melo's. We just need to make sure the ball keeps moving. Gotta hope they can add a quick PG to the mix and a rebounder and I think this team will be in businesss.

Would love to add

Jamelle Hagins, a 4 year consistent undrafted double double machine with 2.5 blocks

Dwayne Davis, had to mature at a young age and support younger siblings as mother was lossed due to lupis
Has a child to support as well and love his ability to penetrate the most as a right handed James Harden

Bargs: either an F or a generous D-
JR: C
Pablo: C+

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Bargs D actually thought the player was a good 1 to take a swing on with Amare being the piece being shipped out.Like Novak and Camby being gone but once again we add extra pieces that we shouldnt that makes the deal a loser.People act like 2nds are worthless because of the quality of player but they also could facilitate another deal in the future. The Raptors would of still done this deal with just the first I truly believe it.

Copeland - losing Copeland F At first I didnt want to bring back Copeland because I was against adding 2015 salary but since we r doing that anyway we should of kept him. The Pacers wanting him even further angers me. Choosing Pablo over Copeland is a mistake Copeland is better

JR F This was Pass or Fail after watching the playoffs anything longer then 2 years or 3 with a Team option was an automatic F

One of the second round picks traded is the
Pick from the brewer trade. Currently it is projected to be the second to last pick in the draft. That one isn't a big deal. The other pick is a second round pick four years from now. I think if you are sweating that pick you are over thinking things. I posted in another thread that the Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their roster last year and 7 of those guys were top 5 picks. You definitely can find guys in the second round but it isn't the norm.

Again giving them away like they r worthless like the Knicks isnt a way to do business. Another player could become available and with that pick and a non guaranteed contract he could be a Knick. I just wish they would be a little more shrewd.

U dont get frustrated watching the Knicks pay the absolute maximum amount they can on every single transaction. They lose every trade, they lose every signing, no foresight for a team option on Copeland its unreal. We will never win a title with an organization that is run this poorly

Walk away from an fing deal once in awhile. We had to have Bargs so bad we needed to give up 3 draft picks. No other possible deal could of been made. I dont believe that

Is Bargs 10 times more the salary and 3 draft picks better then Copeland? They both r stretch 4's.Couldnt keep Copeland and make a move with those picks for a PG.Again i actually liked the fit of Bargs but did we have to jacked up on the deal to get him

This again goes back to overpaying Novak in the 1st place. Why did we give him 4 years. If it was 3 years or 2 years we trade him anywhere.Constantly paying premium on every thing they do

I see this totally differently from you. The Knicks are being judged by past practices of previous gm's. In the past they did over pay in deals. I don't see that at all here. Guys around here complained about Camby and Novak all last year and what awful cap killing signings they were. Today I have been reading about what a tremendous marksman Novak is, how he has value and with his skills his contract could be moved easily in any deal. Really, I wish I was making this up. The Knicks moved out deadweight guys with bad contracts. They brought back a 27 year old former number one pick who has had two injury plagued years that dropped his numbers and value. His contract comes off the books a year before the cap killing, now valued marksmans deal and provides more cap room when a ton of salary comes off the cap. I don't see the Knicks as having been killed in this deal. It is either a win or a push. I think bargs potentially could be a really good pickup and not much is lost if he isn't. I am not going to worry about a pick that is projected to be next to last next year. I am not worried about a second round pick four years from now. I think giving up a compromised first round pick in 2016 was necessary and not that big of a loss. A gm is supposed to make a team better. There is a limited window with melo. I think this was an opportunity that couldn't be passed up.

Jmpasq wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Bargs D actually thought the player was a good 1 to take a swing on with Amare being the piece being shipped out.Like Novak and Camby being gone but once again we add extra pieces that we shouldnt that makes the deal a loser.People act like 2nds are worthless because of the quality of player but they also could facilitate another deal in the future. The Raptors would of still done this deal with just the first I truly believe it.

Copeland - losing Copeland F At first I didnt want to bring back Copeland because I was against adding 2015 salary but since we r doing that anyway we should of kept him. The Pacers wanting him even further angers me. Choosing Pablo over Copeland is a mistake Copeland is better

JR F This was Pass or Fail after watching the playoffs anything longer then 2 years or 3 with a Team option was an automatic F

One of the second round picks traded is the
Pick from the brewer trade. Currently it is projected to be the second to last pick in the draft. That one isn't a big deal. The other pick is a second round pick four years from now. I think if you are sweating that pick you are over thinking things. I posted in another thread that the Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their roster last year and 7 of those guys were top 5 picks. You definitely can find guys in the second round but it isn't the norm.

Again giving them away like they r worthless like the Knicks isnt a way to do business. Another player could become available and with that pick and a non guaranteed contract he could be a Knick. I just wish they would be a little more shrewd.

U dont get frustrated watching the Knicks pay the absolute maximum amount they can on every single transaction. They lose every trade, they lose every signing, no foresight for a team option on Copeland its unreal. We will never win a title with an organization that is run this poorly

Walk away from an fing deal once in awhile. We had to have Bargs so bad we needed to give up 3 draft picks. No other possible deal could of been made. I dont believe that

Is Bargs 10 times more the salary and 3 draft picks better then Copeland? They both r stretch 4's.Couldnt keep Copeland and make a move with those picks for a PG.Again i actually liked the fit of Bargs but did we have to jacked up on the deal to get him

This again goes back to overpaying Novak in the 1st place. Why did we give him 4 years. If it was 3 years or 2 years we trade him anywhere.Constantly paying premium on every thing they do

I see this totally differently from you. The Knicks are being judged by past practices of previous gm's. In the past they did over pay in deals. I don't see that at all here. Guys around here complained about Camby and Novak all last year and what awful cap killing signings they were. Today I have been reading about what a tremendous marksman Novak is, how he has value and with his skills his contract could be moved easily in any deal. Really, I wish I was making this up. The Knicks moved out deadweight guys with bad contracts. They brought back a 27 year old former number one pick who has had two injury plagued years that dropped his numbers and value. His contract comes off the books a year before the cap killing, now valued marksmans deal and provides more cap room when a ton of salary comes off the cap. I don't see the Knicks as having been killed in this deal. It is either a win or a push. I think bargs potentially could be a really good pickup and not much is lost if he isn't. I am not going to worry about a pick that is projected to be next to last next year. I am not worried about a second round pick four years from now. I think giving up a compromised first round pick in 2016 was necessary and not that big of a loss. A gm is supposed to make a team better. There is a limited window with melo. I think this was an opportunity that couldn't be passed up.