Yes, he should have a big one... and Nugs should have big balls to give him this contract...
I think Karl's not playing and developing the younger bigs was part of the reason he wasn't brought back. However, Moz played under 400 minutes last year. Not sure if his numbers project out accurately with so little time on the court.
skeng wrote:Moz and Chandler's numbers per 36 minutes aren't that different. Seems like good value for Denver. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
You also have to account for the fact that that Mozgov averages nearly six fouls per 36 minutes as well, an aspect of his game that he doesn't seem to be improving. There is also a significant difference in their field goal percentages, even though they take the same type of shots for the most part. I think that's an indication of how weak Mozgov's hands are. I think those are the two major impediments to his development so far. That said, it would have been nice if the Knicks brought him back as a reserve. I've always liked Moz.
skeng wrote:Moz and Chandler's numbers per 36 minutes aren't that different. Seems like good value for Denver. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
Ha, so now Mosgov is as good as Tyson.
Fed up of the short term memories of this board. Someone has an up and down season and a poor playoffs due to illness and suddenly they've always been a crap. Forget his 2010-2011, and his 2011-2012 seasons, and how he played with the Hornets for three seasons- only his performance in the playoffs after illness, and his injured year with the Bobcats are the real Tyson!
I remember Mosgov- HE STUNK! After he got dunked on by Griffin, he died inside. On the Nuggets he was their THIRD C, couldn't even beat out Koufus and McGee!
smackeddog wrote:skeng wrote:Moz and Chandler's numbers per 36 minutes aren't that different. Seems like good value for Denver. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
Ha, so now Mosgov is as good as Tyson.
Fed up of the short term memories of this board. Someone has an up and down season and a poor playoffs due to illness and suddenly they've always been a crap. Forget his 2010-2011, and his 2011-2012 seasons, and how he played with the Hornets for three seasons- only his performance in the playoffs after illness, and his injured year with the Bobcats are the real Tyson!
I remember Mosgov- HE STUNK! After he got dunked on by Griffin, he died inside. On the Nuggets he was their THIRD C, couldn't even beat out Koufus and McGee!
Please let's stop this historical revisionism in its tracks,
We cannot start to write off Tyson's playoffs performance as 'due to illness' or 'an up and down season',
Tyson was exposed in the absolute, he is a fugazi with no strength and he will always be bullied like a punk when it gets hot and bothered in the paint,
Tyson Chandler has no place in a Knicks uniform if you really want to call it how it is, unfortunately the Powers Behind the Curtain do not have a solution to move him, so it will be a game of cover up the elephant in the room until Chandler's Knicks career has run its path,
IronWillGiroud wrote:
Please let's stop this historical revisionism in its tracks,We cannot start to write off Tyson's playoffs performance as 'due to illness' or 'an up and down season',
Tyson was exposed in the absolute, he is a fugazi with no strength and he will always be bullied like a punk when it gets hot and bothered in the paint,
Tyson Chandler has no place in a Knicks uniform if you really want to call it how it is, unfortunately the Powers Behind the Curtain do not have a solution to move him, so it will be a game of cover up the elephant in the room until Chandler's Knicks career has run its path,
It's not revisionism, it's fact. He was injured and ill the last few weeks of the season. he only started running again a few days before the playoffs and had lost a lot of weight. Do you you honestly believe that he should have been at the top of his game? Why do you seem to think that is the true Tyson?
He's now working on getting stronger- he had some good games for us last year, and was good all of the season before that (and the season before that, and during his 3 seasons with the Hornets, and his latter few seasons with the Bulls.
Revisionist history is making out he's always been garbage- I remember the years before he got here when we had to make do with the likes of Nazr Mohammed, Mosgov, Ronny Turiaf, etc etc.
You just don't lose the weight he claimed he lost unless you are terminally ill.
Tyson complains too much to the refs and he hasn't shown the balls to step up for his teammates. His slap rebounds are cool but real men secure the rebound not look to slap it out every time.
Most of the flap towards him has to do with the 14 mill he makes. If he made what he's worth and that's 5-8 mill then nobody would be complaining. If he made that money i think he would be gone right now.
People over rate Tyson. Three knicks have done the best they could to build around Tyson and A'mare. Both guys are mistake contacts and are killing or ability to get better. So we gotta roll with them....
smackeddog wrote:skeng wrote:Moz and Chandler's numbers per 36 minutes aren't that different. Seems like good value for Denver. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
Ha, so now Mosgov is as good as Tyson.
Fed up of the short term memories of this board. Someone has an up and down season and a poor playoffs due to illness and suddenly they've always been a crap. Forget his 2010-2011, and his 2011-2012 seasons, and how he played with the Hornets for three seasons- only his performance in the playoffs after illness, and his injured year with the Bobcats are the real Tyson!
I remember Mosgov- HE STUNK! After he got dunked on by Griffin, he died inside. On the Nuggets he was their THIRD C, couldn't even beat out Koufus and McGee!
Lately Tyson has been suffering from "illnesses" more often than he's been healthy, especially in the playoffs. The guy had a cold, boo hoo. He doesn't work in the offseason to improve his O at all, throws his teammates under the bus in the playoffs- asking for more touches when he is the most offensively challenged player on the team and was suffering from "the flu" ( if his sickness was truly debilitating why should he get the ball MORE?), and cares more about his shitty fashion shows than proving his worth as a basketball player. His tip outs are really half-assed attempts at rebounds that go to the other team half the time and his effort on D all of last season was questionable at best. Mozgov isn't a good player, but Chandler is no 14 million dollar man. A smart GM would have offered Tyson 8-10 mil max, 14 is simply asinine (to quote Screamin' A Smith).
EnySpree wrote:You just don't lose the weight he claimed he lost unless you are terminally ill. Tyson complains too much to the refs and he hasn't shown the balls to step up for his teammates. His slap rebounds are cool but real men secure the rebound not look to slap it out every time.
Most of the flap towards him has to do with the 14 mill he makes. If he made what he's worth and that's 5-8 mill then nobody would be complaining. If he made that money i think he would be gone right now.
People over rate Tyson. Three knicks have done the best they could to build around Tyson and A'mare. Both guys are mistake contacts and are killing or ability to get better. So we gotta roll with them....
In a world where Mosgov gets $4-5 mil per season after playing about 8 minutes a game for 40 games, you're high if you think Tyson would only get $5-8mil. He'd probably get $10 or $11mil- what difference does the $4mil extra make? We're capped out anyways.
Who cares if Tyson grabs the rebound or taps it out to a team mate, as long as we keep the ball in our possession. Last season people liked the tap out he added, this season its apparantly a disgrace! besides which, the man averaged 14 rebounds per game for a month, he's not Bargnani!.
Tyson looked thinner in the playoffs- he looked pale and thin. He's one of those people who loses weight quickly when ill- this does happen to people.
I agree he whines too much to the refs- it's annoying as hell. It also annoyed me that he called out everyone but himself after the playoffs- that really p***ed me off! "Oh everyone needs to get better including the coach. Except me- I gave it my all!".
He does stand up for his teammates- remember when that Sixer pushed Melo, and Tyson immediately pushed him back?
He's a good center, but he has his flaws, and his defense definitely slipped last season. But he played well the season before and I think he can get back to that.
Size only matters in denver. Moz wouldve never got that kind of money anywhere else. Denver out bidding themselves.
smackeddog wrote:
I agree he whines too much to the refs- it's annoying as hell. It also annoyed me that he called out everyone but himself after the playoffs- that really p***ed me off! "Oh everyone needs to get better including the coach. Except me- I gave it my all!".
This really made me want the Knicks to move him out. Part of the reason Tyson is paid a king's ransom is because he is supposed to lead and have a championship pedigree. He sucked really bad against the Pacers. He was a horror show but I felt had earned the benefit of the doubt regarding his play as he had the bad neck and strep stuff going on. But when he came out and talked ish about his teammates and coaches when his play or lack of was the biggest reason the Pacers were dominating the Knicks I lost a ton of respect for him and would be fine if he played ball somewhere else. If he can play well for his usual sixty games and have his annual debilitating illness before the playoffs he is tolerable. My opinion of him and his character changed a lot after his words and actions last spring.
Mozgov is pretty good. He would've gotten a substantial contract to go back to Russia. Dude needs some minutes. He produces when he gets the minutes. I don't think he's much less talented than somone like Gortat - who showed what he can do when given the opportunity.
The defense was good vs the pacers overall. Biggest reason we lost was because Woodson kept Copeland on the bench and over relied on JR and Kidd. With that said yes Tyson is a woman. His neck wasn't bothering him during the season when he was loafing back on D and getting out rebounded every night. With the exception of that 1 month. The only team that amnesties billups instead of Amare and then pays him $14mil per is a "Clumsy" team
blkexec wrote:Size only matters in denver. Moz wouldve never got that kind of money anywhere else. Denver out bidding themselves.
Papabear Says
Management had to make themselves look good because that trade they made for Melo wasn't as good as it appeared to them and they probably new that if he left he was coming back to New York where they have a large population of Russians . He came to the NBA only to play for the Knicks.
smackeddog wrote:skeng wrote:Moz and Chandler's numbers per 36 minutes aren't that different. Seems like good value for Denver. http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play...
Ha, so now Mosgov is as good as Tyson.
Fed up of the short term memories of this board. Someone has an up and down season and a poor playoffs due to illness and suddenly they've always been a crap. Forget his 2010-2011, and his 2011-2012 seasons, and how he played with the Hornets for three seasons- only his performance in the playoffs after illness, and his injured year with the Bobcats are the real Tyson!
I remember Mosgov- HE STUNK! After he got dunked on by Griffin, he died inside. On the Nuggets he was their THIRD C, couldn't even beat out Koufus and McGee!
I think Tyson is overrated but he is MUCH BETTER then Mozgov. U can give me Offensive and rebound numbers but Mozgov doesnt have anywhere near the effect on the D like Chandler does.Flu Tyson is still better then Mozgov. Im surprised they gave him that kind of money. I guess the GM likes him more then Karl
Papabear wrote:blkexec wrote:Size only matters in denver. Moz wouldve never got that kind of money anywhere else. Denver out bidding themselves.
Papabear SaysManagement had to make themselves look good because that trade they made for Melo wasn't as good as it appeared to them and they probably new that if he left he was coming back to New York where they have a large population of Russians . He came to the NBA only to play for the Knicks.
Moz got 3mm per and in this market bigs are not cheap.
He is their back up now and will get more minutes. He has a range of tools that is pretty good.
He'll have to control his fouls. I don't think Management paid him to look good. They paid him because he is an asset. Melo is gone and its not about him any more. They have a core of Gallo, Shy Wilson, Moz, Andre Miller (trade for felton), still a pick to swap and a future unprotected no. 1.
There is an old saying "price is only an issue in the absence of quality", and while Melo was "expensive" we got the star knicks were looking to get and he has proven worthy.
At the same time I think Denver did pretty good getting multiple assets in return.
Who wins the trade? I think both teams got what they wanted. Both teams can win actually.
I think we are far removed from the trade to where so many other factors no come into play. Draft picks, trades, salary cap, CBA, etc.
If melo bolts next year im not concerned with Denver, Im concerned with Knicks. Knicks tank and we can't contol our pick or one given away would be Tramatic.
One year at a time. Denver wants to develop its two bigs (McGee and Moz) where Karl was about wins to justify a new contract and pad his gaudy total. I respect Denver for letting him go.
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