The owners seem to have succeeded in correcting the problem they had with the MLE. Remember how many players that were mediocre used to get the full MLE and now there are far fewer guys getting that kind of money. There's a greater gap between the top tier players and the rest of the league. Now teams pay top dollar for the top talent and peanuts for the rest of the players on their teams. Before this CBA teams kept making bad full MLE signings for players that weren't really worth that money. Now they've saved themselves from making that mistake by legislating it out as an option for many teams like the Knicks. The owners know that they are their own worst enemy. If given the option they'd use it.
It's funny how these guys will literally sign for bare minimum but as soon as the Knicks are interested the price goes up 47%
I call that the isiah Thomas effect. Thanks again Isiah
gunsnewing wrote:I prefer Pablo over Augustine because neither will be a knick lifer and Pablo is a better fit. More poise. I just don't get why we gave him an extra 700,000. As evident by this list we overpaid. That's 700,000 that could've been used to sign Udrih who will weigh his decision on money and caliber of team he is joining
more poise? a better fit? really? I don't think so....
IronWillGiroud wrote:these are all ballers that went for peanuts, amazing
exactly, it shows that we could have signed quality players at good deals..
it shows that we could have gotten young players at good deals..
tkf wrote:IronWillGiroud wrote:these are all ballers that went for peanuts, amazing
exactly, it shows that we could have signed quality players at good deals..
it shows that we could have gotten young players at good deals..
Man - when will your whining ever end. Your constant bitching about the front office and your lack of any reasonably better alternatives or arguments is very tiresome. Over and over again.
I love the Artest and Bargnani deals -- I would have preferred we paid Pablo less but Knicks front office thought different.
DJ Augustine and Austin Daye were our saviors?
Doesn't it get lonely --- spending all your time trying to convince people you see things more clearly then them or that you are a smarter fan then them? Where does the constant whining get you?
tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I prefer Pablo over Augustine because neither will be a knick lifer and Pablo is a better fit. More poise. I just don't get why we gave him an extra 700,000. As evident by this list we overpaid. That's 700,000 that could've been used to sign Udrih who will weigh his decision on money and caliber of team he is joining
more poise? a better fit? really? I don't think so....
I am not an Augustine fan \ so I have some bias but I checked last years stats and Pablo was better on paper as well as on the court. Pablo got a two year deal. I thought DJ would end up in Europe after his season last year.
tkf wrote:IronWillGiroud wrote:these are all ballers that went for peanuts, amazing
exactly, it shows that we could have signed quality players at good deals..
it shows that we could have gotten young players at good deals..
There is a reason why guys signed where they did. The bottom four got more money then the Knicks could offer. Cope wanted more then what was left after the Knicks signed Prigs. AK47 had history with Russian and it benefits his wife. Collison wanted to play with Paul. Some guys got minutes guaranteed. I don't get it. You know the Knicks had 3.1 mil to spend right? You can't remake a roster or get every free agent that falls and has to take less money because of the new cba. Shouldn't a team be proactive and get the guys that they think will help them win? If assets are limited then you do the best you can. Not every free agent is going to split the mmle to sign with the Knicks and they aren't going to take less money to play in NY. So many factors are ignored. Players might sign some place because there isn't a state income tax. Players might go for the money because they are 29 and it is their first and last chance at a big contract. Imagine that? Thinking about yourself and your future when you are deciding where you are going to play. This isn't hard to figure out. The Knicks are capped out. Just say you don't like Prigs.
tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I prefer Pablo over Augustine because neither will be a knick lifer and Pablo is a better fit. More poise. I just don't get why we gave him an extra 700,000. As evident by this list we overpaid. That's 700,000 that could've been used to sign Udrih who will weigh his decision on money and caliber of team he is joining
more poise? a better fit? really? I don't think so....
I hear ya. Augustine is younger and more of a change of pace pg but he is more of a complimentary player. Not a great shooter not get good at getting everyone involved. Turnover prone.
Prigs remember he is still adjusting to the NBA game. Knows his limitations. Worked with Dave hoopla on a quicker release from 3. Which in realty is more than we can ask for offensively. He was our most efficient 3pt shooter second half of the season. Ideally you'd run beno Augustine and prigs. Veteran, change of pace and ability to consistently hit the open midrange jumper.
Unfortunately we are stuck with Felton and his erractc jumpshot.THE END
gunsnewing wrote:tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I prefer Pablo over Augustine because neither will be a knick lifer and Pablo is a better fit. More poise. I just don't get why we gave him an extra 700,000. As evident by this list we overpaid. That's 700,000 that could've been used to sign Udrih who will weigh his decision on money and caliber of team he is joining
more poise? a better fit? really? I don't think so....
I hear ya. Augustine is younger and more of a change of pace pg but he is more of a complimentary player. Not a great shooter not get good at getting everyone involved. Turnover prone.
Prigs remember he is still adjusting to the NBA game. Knows his limitations. Worked with Dave hoopla on a quicker release from 3. Which in realty is more than we can ask for offensively. He was our most efficient 3pt shooter second half of the season. Ideally you'd run beno Augustine and prigs. Veteran, change of pace and ability to consistently hit the open midrange jumper.
Unfortunately we are stuck with Felton and his erractc jumpshot.THE END
Pablo and DJ played the same number of minutes per game last year and Pablo has DJ in every category except DJ scored .5 more points but shot at a much lower percentage. DJ is not a guy I think will do much in the nba so I am biased but stats are stats.
Also, most of those guys are signing for more than the vet min.
I can tell you what I saw with this thread - two minutes of my life I'll never get back
CrushAlot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I prefer Pablo over Augustine because neither will be a knick lifer and Pablo is a better fit. More poise. I just don't get why we gave him an extra 700,000. As evident by this list we overpaid. That's 700,000 that could've been used to sign Udrih who will weigh his decision on money and caliber of team he is joining
more poise? a better fit? really? I don't think so....
I hear ya. Augustine is younger and more of a change of pace pg but he is more of a complimentary player. Not a great shooter not get good at getting everyone involved. Turnover prone.
Prigs remember he is still adjusting to the NBA game. Knows his limitations. Worked with Dave hoopla on a quicker release from 3. Which in realty is more than we can ask for offensively. He was our most efficient 3pt shooter second half of the season. Ideally you'd run beno Augustine and prigs. Veteran, change of pace and ability to consistently hit the open midrange jumper.
Unfortunately we are stuck with Felton and his erractc jumpshot.THE END
Pablo and DJ played the same number of minutes per game last year and Pablo has DJ in every category except DJ scored .5 more points but shot at a much lower percentage. DJ is not a guy I think will do much in the nba so I am biased but stats are stats.
DJ is not that good, I agree, but the funny thing is we had 3 players we used as our "PG's" in Felton, Kidd, and Pablo, that were unable to defend him
Pablo had one good game vs the Pacer's while every other games he was non factor
While DJ was able to be a scoring option shooting nearly 50% for the entire series and averaged over double Pablo's points
CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:IronWillGiroud wrote:these are all ballers that went for peanuts, amazing
exactly, it shows that we could have signed quality players at good deals..
it shows that we could have gotten young players at good deals..
There is a reason why guys signed where they did. The bottom four got more money then the Knicks could offer. Cope wanted more then what was left after the Knicks signed Prigs. AK47 had history with Russian and it benefits his wife. Collison wanted to play with Paul. Some guys got minutes guaranteed. I don't get it. You know the Knicks had 3.1 mil to spend right? You can't remake a roster or get every free agent that falls and has to take less money because of the new cba. Shouldn't a team be proactive and get the guys that they think will help them win? If assets are limited then you do the best you can. Not every free agent is going to split the mmle to sign with the Knicks and they aren't going to take less money to play in NY. So many factors are ignored. Players might sign some place because there isn't a state income tax. Players might go for the money because they are 29 and it is their first and last chance at a big contract. Imagine that? Thinking about yourself and your future when you are deciding where you are going to play. This isn't hard to figure out. The Knicks are capped out. Just say you don't like Prigs.
lets try speaking for ourselves..
I gave examples of what the knicks could have done.. tell me, why is artest and kenyon martin signed?
RonRon wrote:CrushAlot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I prefer Pablo over Augustine because neither will be a knick lifer and Pablo is a better fit. More poise. I just don't get why we gave him an extra 700,000. As evident by this list we overpaid. That's 700,000 that could've been used to sign Udrih who will weigh his decision on money and caliber of team he is joining
more poise? a better fit? really? I don't think so....
I hear ya. Augustine is younger and more of a change of pace pg but he is more of a complimentary player. Not a great shooter not get good at getting everyone involved. Turnover prone.
Prigs remember he is still adjusting to the NBA game. Knows his limitations. Worked with Dave hoopla on a quicker release from 3. Which in realty is more than we can ask for offensively. He was our most efficient 3pt shooter second half of the season. Ideally you'd run beno Augustine and prigs. Veteran, change of pace and ability to consistently hit the open midrange jumper.
Unfortunately we are stuck with Felton and his erractc jumpshot.THE END
Pablo and DJ played the same number of minutes per game last year and Pablo has DJ in every category except DJ scored .5 more points but shot at a much lower percentage. DJ is not a guy I think will do much in the nba so I am biased but stats are stats.
DJ is not that good, I agree, but the funny thing is we had 3 players we used as our "PG's" in Felton, Kidd, and Pablo, that were unable to defend him
Pablo had one good game vs the Pacer's while every other games he was non factor
While DJ was able to be a scoring option shooting nearly 50% for the entire series and averaged over double Pablo's points
yea, people are missing the point.. we are trying to get a vet like beno here on a vet min to play 3rd string.... guys are not wanting to do that, unless one thing, they are pretty much guaranteed playing time.. Austin day signed for peanuts, he said he just wanted playing time... we seem to go about things without any thought process... I gave numerous possibilities to get younger talent and talent that filled needs... we talk about injures, we talk about guys having to play out of position, now we see a lot of spin talking about 2015.. then why not try to get younger now, fill in positions of need with guys who are not going to need days off after playing more than 20 minutes..
why did we grab artest?
why bring kenyon back?
why give pablo more money and still looking to sign PG's who are better than him?
tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:IronWillGiroud wrote:these are all ballers that went for peanuts, amazing
exactly, it shows that we could have signed quality players at good deals..
it shows that we could have gotten young players at good deals..
There is a reason why guys signed where they did. The bottom four got more money then the Knicks could offer. Cope wanted more then what was left after the Knicks signed Prigs. AK47 had history with Russian and it benefits his wife. Collison wanted to play with Paul. Some guys got minutes guaranteed. I don't get it. You know the Knicks had 3.1 mil to spend right? You can't remake a roster or get every free agent that falls and has to take less money because of the new cba. Shouldn't a team be proactive and get the guys that they think will help them win? If assets are limited then you do the best you can. Not every free agent is going to split the mmle to sign with the Knicks and they aren't going to take less money to play in NY. So many factors are ignored. Players might sign some place because there isn't a state income tax. Players might go for the money because they are 29 and it is their first and last chance at a big contract. Imagine that? Thinking about yourself and your future when you are deciding where you are going to play. This isn't hard to figure out. The Knicks are capped out. Just say you don't like Prigs.
lets try speaking for ourselves..
I gave examples of what the knicks could have done.. tell me, why is artest and kenyon martin signed?
The Knicks had a plan and followed it. The plan was to sign Prigs first and they did that. By doing that they used their mmle. The guys that you listed were not a part of their plan. Maybe they didn't think some of those guys would fall through the cracks or maybe they like what Prigs brought to the team during the 13 game winning streak when he started. Remember the Knicks won 54 games. By most standards that is a successful season. Nothing wrong with prioritizing your guy if he is a good fit. So the options you listed really weren't options because they had a different plan.
tkf wrote:RonRon wrote:CrushAlot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I prefer Pablo over Augustine because neither will be a knick lifer and Pablo is a better fit. More poise. I just don't get why we gave him an extra 700,000. As evident by this list we overpaid. That's 700,000 that could've been used to sign Udrih who will weigh his decision on money and caliber of team he is joining
more poise? a better fit? really? I don't think so....
I hear ya. Augustine is younger and more of a change of pace pg but he is more of a complimentary player. Not a great shooter not get good at getting everyone involved. Turnover prone.
Prigs remember he is still adjusting to the NBA game. Knows his limitations. Worked with Dave hoopla on a quicker release from 3. Which in realty is more than we can ask for offensively. He was our most efficient 3pt shooter second half of the season. Ideally you'd run beno Augustine and prigs. Veteran, change of pace and ability to consistently hit the open midrange jumper.
Unfortunately we are stuck with Felton and his erractc jumpshot.THE END
Pablo and DJ played the same number of minutes per game last year and Pablo has DJ in every category except DJ scored .5 more points but shot at a much lower percentage. DJ is not a guy I think will do much in the nba so I am biased but stats are stats.
DJ is not that good, I agree, but the funny thing is we had 3 players we used as our "PG's" in Felton, Kidd, and Pablo, that were unable to defend him
Pablo had one good game vs the Pacer's while every other games he was non factor
While DJ was able to be a scoring option shooting nearly 50% for the entire series and averaged over double Pablo's points
yea, people are missing the point.. we are trying to get a vet like beno here on a vet min to play 3rd string.... guys are not wanting to do that, unless one thing, they are pretty much guaranteed playing time.. Austin day signed for peanuts, he said he just wanted playing time... we seem to go about things without any thought process... I gave numerous possibilities to get younger talent and talent that filled needs... we talk about injures, we talk about guys having to play out of position, now we see a lot of spin talking about 2015.. then why not try to get younger now, fill in positions of need with guys who are not going to need days off after playing more than 20 minutes..
why did we grab artest?
why bring kenyon back?
why give pablo more money and still looking to sign PG's who are better than him?
It would seem we go about things without agreeing to your plan and thought process of how to build a franchise the proper way; youth, draft picks, flexibility, blah blah blah. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Yes, we know; 54 wins and the division title and scoring champion and 13 game win streaks and SMOTY and making the 2nd round don't mean squat. Unless we use that to sign efficent young experts like DJ Augustine and Austin Daye. And get some draft picks instead of signing old has-beens and a stupid Euro PG who isn't athletic enough.
What I really notice is how you neglect to mention about how much greater Denver is by the Nate and Foye signings. 
I believe there is a underlining theme with the Knicks.
The NBA isn't very complicated. Don't give out long term deals and overpay role players.
Weatherspoon, James, Jefferies, Novak, Camby etc. Evaluating talent isn't that difficult. Each year there are a number of guys available to help at limited salaries.
Matt Barnes was a steal, as was Dunleavy, Nate Robinson there are a handful of guys on that list. I like Pablo and think he's in tremendous shape, but we aren't bringing in any guys to can grow down the road or make a tremendous impact. I think that's the point.
jrodmc wrote:tkf wrote:RonRon wrote:CrushAlot wrote:gunsnewing wrote:tkf wrote:gunsnewing wrote:I prefer Pablo over Augustine because neither will be a knick lifer and Pablo is a better fit. More poise. I just don't get why we gave him an extra 700,000. As evident by this list we overpaid. That's 700,000 that could've been used to sign Udrih who will weigh his decision on money and caliber of team he is joining
more poise? a better fit? really? I don't think so....
I hear ya. Augustine is younger and more of a change of pace pg but he is more of a complimentary player. Not a great shooter not get good at getting everyone involved. Turnover prone.
Prigs remember he is still adjusting to the NBA game. Knows his limitations. Worked with Dave hoopla on a quicker release from 3. Which in realty is more than we can ask for offensively. He was our most efficient 3pt shooter second half of the season. Ideally you'd run beno Augustine and prigs. Veteran, change of pace and ability to consistently hit the open midrange jumper.
Unfortunately we are stuck with Felton and his erractc jumpshot.THE END
Pablo and DJ played the same number of minutes per game last year and Pablo has DJ in every category except DJ scored .5 more points but shot at a much lower percentage. DJ is not a guy I think will do much in the nba so I am biased but stats are stats.
DJ is not that good, I agree, but the funny thing is we had 3 players we used as our "PG's" in Felton, Kidd, and Pablo, that were unable to defend him
Pablo had one good game vs the Pacer's while every other games he was non factor
While DJ was able to be a scoring option shooting nearly 50% for the entire series and averaged over double Pablo's points
yea, people are missing the point.. we are trying to get a vet like beno here on a vet min to play 3rd string.... guys are not wanting to do that, unless one thing, they are pretty much guaranteed playing time.. Austin day signed for peanuts, he said he just wanted playing time... we seem to go about things without any thought process... I gave numerous possibilities to get younger talent and talent that filled needs... we talk about injures, we talk about guys having to play out of position, now we see a lot of spin talking about 2015.. then why not try to get younger now, fill in positions of need with guys who are not going to need days off after playing more than 20 minutes..
why did we grab artest?
why bring kenyon back?
why give pablo more money and still looking to sign PG's who are better than him?
It would seem we go about things without agreeing to your plan and thought process of how to build a franchise the proper way; youth, draft picks, flexibility, blah blah blah. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Yes, we know; 54 wins and the division title and scoring champion and 13 game win streaks and SMOTY and making the 2nd round don't mean squat. Unless we use that to sign efficent young experts like DJ Augustine and Austin Daye. And get some draft picks instead of signing old has-beens and a stupid Euro PG who isn't athletic enough.
What I really notice is how you neglect to mention about how much greater Denver is by the Nate and Foye signings.
well there you go.. you sound satisfied.... I thought you wanted to win a ring?
tkf wrote:MS wrote:I believe there is a underlining theme with the Knicks. The NBA isn't very complicated. Don't give out long term deals and overpay role players.
Weatherspoon, James, Jefferies, Novak, Camby etc. Evaluating talent isn't that difficult. Each year there are a number of guys available to help at limited salaries.
Matt Barnes was a steal, as was Dunleavy, Nate Robinson there are a handful of guys on that list. I like Pablo and think he's in tremendous shape, but we aren't bringing in any guys to can grow down the road or make a tremendous impact. I think that's the point.
thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think you bring in Barnes to develop him. He is the same age as Metta. Dunlevy is a year younger. The Knicks had 3.1 mil to spend and got Pablo and Ron with that. The Knicks also wanted to bring Pablo back so they got their guy. You really can't remake the roster with 3.1 mil. The knick are bringing in c. J. and hardaway and probably Tyler or murry so they are trying to develop guys.
CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:MS wrote:I believe there is a underlining theme with the Knicks. The NBA isn't very complicated. Don't give out long term deals and overpay role players.
Weatherspoon, James, Jefferies, Novak, Camby etc. Evaluating talent isn't that difficult. Each year there are a number of guys available to help at limited salaries.
Matt Barnes was a steal, as was Dunleavy, Nate Robinson there are a handful of guys on that list. I like Pablo and think he's in tremendous shape, but we aren't bringing in any guys to can grow down the road or make a tremendous impact. I think that's the point.
thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think you bring in Barnes to develop him. He is the same age as Metta. Dunlevy is a year younger. The Knicks had 3.1 mil to spend and got Pablo and Ron with that. The Knicks also wanted to bring Pablo back so they got their guy. You really can't remake the roster with 3.1 mil. The knick are bringing in c. J. and hardaway and probably Tyler or murry so they are trying to develop guys.
that list has quite a few young guys on there to develop..
matt barnes games has a lot more miles left than metta
but again, MS hit the nail on the head.. we can go on and on.. but if you are satisfied with pablo, metta and kenyon, then honestly I don't want to hear any complaints about injuries and of course the great old excuse.. " X" player had no help....
