No Bargnani wasn't a steal. But really what do you want Melo to say? We got screwed? Call his teammate soft and unmotivated? People have to stop taking seriously positive spin bullcrap NBA players and coaches say about each other. There is always an huge excess of positive statements and accolades about even the 15th man on every team. Players have nothing to lose by heaping undeserving praise on each other. Melo saying he was a steal doesn't mean he is and doesn't even mean Melo really thinks he is.
You think if the deal fell through Melo would be saying how much of a steal it would have been? No he'd be telling you how glad he is that Camby and Novak are stilll on the team and what key pieces they are to our championship hopes.
nykshaknbake wrote:No Bargnani wasn't a steal. But really what do you want Melo to say? We got screwed? Call his teammate soft and unmotivated? People have to stop taking seriously positive spin bullcrap NBA players and coaches say about each other. There is always an huge excess of positive statements and accolades about even the 15th man on every team. Players have nothing to lose by heaping undeserving praise on each other. Melo saying he was a steal doesn't mean he is and doesn't even mean Melo really thinks he is. You think if the deal fell through Melo would be saying how much of a steal it would have been? No he'd be telling you how glad he is that Camby and Novak are stilll on the team and what key pieces they are to our championship hopes.
I am not sure what part of the deal wasn't a steal for the Knicks. Is it the loss of Novak/Camby? The two late second round picks? The 2016 1st rounder that Denver can switch places with? I don't see the downside of the deal.
CrushAlot wrote:nykshaknbake wrote:No Bargnani wasn't a steal. But really what do you want Melo to say? We got screwed? Call his teammate soft and unmotivated? People have to stop taking seriously positive spin bullcrap NBA players and coaches say about each other. There is always an huge excess of positive statements and accolades about even the 15th man on every team. Players have nothing to lose by heaping undeserving praise on each other. Melo saying he was a steal doesn't mean he is and doesn't even mean Melo really thinks he is. You think if the deal fell through Melo would be saying how much of a steal it would have been? No he'd be telling you how glad he is that Camby and Novak are stilll on the team and what key pieces they are to our championship hopes.
I am not sure what part of the deal wasn't a steal for the Knicks. Is it the loss of Novak/Camby? The two late second round picks? The 2016 1st rounder that Denver can switch places with? I don't see the downside of the deal.
It's three things:
A) the loss of Camby and Novak
B) the loss of the picks
C) having to give minutes to Bargs
Bonus Three Things Don't Mean Squat
It's three things:
A) the loss of Camby and Novak
Losing Camby is countered by the addition of Tyler and Haddadi. Yeah, I said it. Look forward. not backwards.
B) the loss of the picks
Oh Prunella, the picks... the picks... Fuggedabout the picks. Bargnani was the first player selected in his eligibility year. There is your pick. A number one pick.
C) having to give minutes to Bargs
Please. If Mike Woodson can squeeze a career-best productivity out of problematic manchild Earl Smith, he can convince Andrea Bargnani that he is not a scrub. Woodson is a hands on coach during the summer and has already given Bargnani a set of expectations. Welcome to New York.
Giving minutes to Bargnani is not an issue any more than "giving" minutes to any other player. Why?
Minutes are earned.
Clean wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:nixluva wrote:We need a player like AB. Melo is just voicing the truth. This team needed offensive punch from other than Melo and JR and so there's no reason not to be optimistic about adding AB in exchange for Camby and Novak who gave us nothing. Even AB at his worst is an upgrade, so I don't know what people are talking about when they're down on this move. How can you be down on a move where you add a younger talent in exchange for 2 guys who gave you next to nothing? At his best AB is really good and at his worst he's still better than what we gave up. PERIOD.
If it was just for novak and camby then no problem but the fact that we had to give up 3 picks for him especially having a injury prone 2 years is a gamble. I mean toronto fans were actually thanking us for not only taking him but actually giving them value. Like i said before the draft picks arent a sure thing but bargnani isnt either
This is how I feel also. No one is saying AB would not be a good fit for this team. We are saying that we paid much more than we had to. This is the case for almost every trade the Knicks do. The way I look at it is a lot of people would love to buy a BMW. Those same people would look at that purchase a lot more differently if you were paying Ferrari prices for that same BMW. Now I know that is an extreme but I use it to show that you can like the person in the trade but still not like the trade because we overpaid for what his value was at the time. In the future I hope he plays so well that I don't care anymore that we overpaid for him.
Exactly. Reading the posts i think some are overrating Bargnani. I mean this guy was a number 1 pick and to be honest he has never lived up to his potential. He hasnt been a bum but he hasnt been an all-star type player that the raptors thought they were getting. I hope Bargnani but im sorry i cant give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves it on the court. I mean im the biggest knick fan that there is and i hope to god this does turn out to be a steal for the knicks BUT you cant blame any fan for being hesistant given bargnani's inconsistency
Exactly. Reading the posts i think some are overrating BargnaniWho is "some."
Some people say (insert anything here).. is a vapid means of attributing an opinion to a generic no one.
"Overrating" a player like Bargnani is meaningless at this point. He has no rating other than an opportunity to earn some rotation minutes or a spot as a starter. Ratings are for magazines and television shows.
Bargnani gets a restart. No rating. No baggage. No burden to lead the Knicks as the sole focus.
Andrea is not rated as anything but another dude trying to earn his paycheck and earn some quality minutes.
He is a steal because 7 foot Euro centers with decent fundamentals an outside range to the three point line are rare. He is a steal because New Yorkers love a good comeback story and Bargnani has comeback written all over him.
Low expectations. Higher quality team than Toronto equals more help and lighter load to carry.
Bright lights. Big city. Little Italy is only a few blocks from The Garden.
What's not to like?
he's not a steal if he isn't a positive-sum player for the knicks.
he has never been a positive-sum player.
if he can produce more and give up less than the players traded for him then whoop-dee-damn-doo.
still won't bring us any closer to a title.
misterearl wrote:Exactly. Reading the posts i think some are overrating BargnaniWho is "some."
Some people say (insert anything here).. is a vapid means of attributing an opinion to a generic no one.
"Overrating" a player like Bargnani is meaningless at this point. He has no rating other than an opportunity to earn some rotation minutes or a spot as a starter. Ratings are for magazines and television shows.
Bargnani gets a restart. No rating. No baggage. No burden to lead the Knicks as the sole focus.
Andrea is not rated as anything but another dude trying to earn his paycheck and earn some quality minutes.
He is a steal because 7 foot Euro centers with decent fundamentals an outside range to the three point line are rare. He is a steal because New Yorkers love a good comeback story and Bargnani has comeback written all over him.
Low expectations. Higher quality team than Toronto equals more help and lighter load to carry.
Bright lights. Big city. Little Italy is only a few blocks from The Garden.
What's not to like?
Look all those sayings and quotes are good to hear but we still need to see Bargnani perform. As a Knick fan i hope he does well here but i guess we have to wait and see before we call it a steal
You have to look at how a player will fit into YOUR TEAM and not just look at what he did on another team. Those of us who say this is a steal are taking into account what the impact of having AB should be in the rotation with our other players. On this team he can have a significant impact. People had nothing good to say about JR and then he went on to win the 6th man of the yr award. It's all about how a player fits into the mix rather than just in a vacuum. Given the lack of options the Knicks had, this deal was a steal if for nothing more than the upside still present in AB. It's up to Woody and the staff and his new teammates to help AB reach his full potential. We'll see if they can this year.
I think Carmelo's judgement on front office moves is suspect, just like his ability to operate in a half court set.
I think most fans will enjoy seeing what Bargs can do this season.
We did not give up a unless we tank in 2016 and the pick is very high.
No sense getting upset now, its three years away.
I have high expectations for this kid and hope he can stay healthy.
Hope is a funny thing. I hope AMare can get/stay healthy. This team can be good. How good? They'll be games to play!
StarksEwing1 wrote:misterearl wrote:Exactly. Reading the posts i think some are overrating BargnaniWho is "some."
Some people say (insert anything here).. is a vapid means of attributing an opinion to a generic no one.
"Overrating" a player like Bargnani is meaningless at this point. He has no rating other than an opportunity to earn some rotation minutes or a spot as a starter. Ratings are for magazines and television shows.
Bargnani gets a restart. No rating. No baggage. No burden to lead the Knicks as the sole focus.
Andrea is not rated as anything but another dude trying to earn his paycheck and earn some quality minutes.
He is a steal because 7 foot Euro centers with decent fundamentals an outside range to the three point line are rare. He is a steal because New Yorkers love a good comeback story and Bargnani has comeback written all over him.
Low expectations. Higher quality team than Toronto equals more help and lighter load to carry.
Bright lights. Big city. Little Italy is only a few blocks from The Garden.
What's not to like?
Look all those sayings and quotes are good to hear but we still need to see Bargnani perform. As a Knick fan i hope he does well here but i guess we have to wait and see before we call it a steal
Completely agree with this. I want to be optimistic about this but at the same time its hard for me to ignore his past seasons. Have to take the wait and see approach.
Ahhh, a week off from work and the UK, and all the usual Somber Suspects are still in rare form.
Complaining about thread redundancy. Nice. From posters who created the patented "Why I hate Melo and you should too" thread spawns and the neverending, 4 year old (and counting) "The Trade ruined all our lives, and you're just too much of a Dolan minion to realize it" thread bots.
So at the risk of resurrecting redundancy:
1) Novak. --> last seen doing less than nothing in the playoffs. Last seen in a thread near you with multiple explanations about how his glaring deficiencies (both on O and D) have been solved and exploited by every team in the league that matters.
2) Camby. --> last seen not playing. Continually. For whatever reason. Spectre-like visions of past rebounds and blocks notwithstanding.
3) Draft picks --> Yawn....yeah, draft picks...right. We're the Knicks, remember?
jrodmc wrote:Ahhh, a week off from work and the UK, and all the usual Somber Suspects are still in rare form.Complaining about thread redundancy. Nice. From posters who created the patented "Why I hate Melo and you should too" thread spawns and the neverending, 4 year old (and counting) "The Trade ruined all our lives, and you're just too much of a Dolan minion to realize it" thread bots.
So at the risk of resurrecting redundancy:
1) Novak. --> last seen doing less than nothing in the playoffs. Last seen in a thread near you with multiple explanations about how his glaring deficiencies (both on O and D) have been solved and exploited by every team in the league that matters.
2) Camby. --> last seen not playing. Continually. For whatever reason. Spectre-like visions of past rebounds and blocks notwithstanding.
3) Draft picks --> Yawn....yeah, draft picks...right. We're the Knicks, remember?
Isn't it redundant when 3 of the first 4 (non-stickied) threads are about how wonderful a pickup Bargnani is?
Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Ahhh, a week off from work and the UK, and all the usual Somber Suspects are still in rare form.Complaining about thread redundancy. Nice. From posters who created the patented "Why I hate Melo and you should too" thread spawns and the neverending, 4 year old (and counting) "The Trade ruined all our lives, and you're just too much of a Dolan minion to realize it" thread bots.
So at the risk of resurrecting redundancy:
1) Novak. --> last seen doing less than nothing in the playoffs. Last seen in a thread near you with multiple explanations about how his glaring deficiencies (both on O and D) have been solved and exploited by every team in the league that matters.
2) Camby. --> last seen not playing. Continually. For whatever reason. Spectre-like visions of past rebounds and blocks notwithstanding.
3) Draft picks --> Yawn....yeah, draft picks...right. We're the Knicks, remember?
Isn't it redundant when 3 of the first 4 (non-stickied) threads are about how wonderful a pickup Bargnani is?
So if I understand you correctly, your point is that negative redundancy is bright, smart and informed, while positive redundancy is dull, boring and pointless?
Can we start a number of redundant threads that are purely about redundancy?
I know martin, I know, if I can't add anything...
I am not a fan of Barg's but I don't see how anyone can miss Novak and Camby. Barg's is easily better than both.
I hope Barg's can put up around 15 ppg next year with strong percentages and a few boards. I would be happy with that.
jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Ahhh, a week off from work and the UK, and all the usual Somber Suspects are still in rare form.Complaining about thread redundancy. Nice. From posters who created the patented "Why I hate Melo and you should too" thread spawns and the neverending, 4 year old (and counting) "The Trade ruined all our lives, and you're just too much of a Dolan minion to realize it" thread bots.
So at the risk of resurrecting redundancy:
1) Novak. --> last seen doing less than nothing in the playoffs. Last seen in a thread near you with multiple explanations about how his glaring deficiencies (both on O and D) have been solved and exploited by every team in the league that matters.
2) Camby. --> last seen not playing. Continually. For whatever reason. Spectre-like visions of past rebounds and blocks notwithstanding.
3) Draft picks --> Yawn....yeah, draft picks...right. We're the Knicks, remember?
Isn't it redundant when 3 of the first 4 (non-stickied) threads are about how wonderful a pickup Bargnani is?
So if I understand you correctly, your point is that negative redundancy is bright, smart and informed, while positive redundancy is dull, boring and pointless?
Can we start a number of redundant threads that are purely about redundancy?
I know martin, I know, if I can't add anything...
Wow, you read a lot into my simple yes/no question!
Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:jrodmc wrote:Ahhh, a week off from work and the UK, and all the usual Somber Suspects are still in rare form.Complaining about thread redundancy. Nice. From posters who created the patented "Why I hate Melo and you should too" thread spawns and the neverending, 4 year old (and counting) "The Trade ruined all our lives, and you're just too much of a Dolan minion to realize it" thread bots.
So at the risk of resurrecting redundancy:
1) Novak. --> last seen doing less than nothing in the playoffs. Last seen in a thread near you with multiple explanations about how his glaring deficiencies (both on O and D) have been solved and exploited by every team in the league that matters.
2) Camby. --> last seen not playing. Continually. For whatever reason. Spectre-like visions of past rebounds and blocks notwithstanding.
3) Draft picks --> Yawn....yeah, draft picks...right. We're the Knicks, remember?
Isn't it redundant when 3 of the first 4 (non-stickied) threads are about how wonderful a pickup Bargnani is?
So if I understand you correctly, your point is that negative redundancy is bright, smart and informed, while positive redundancy is dull, boring and pointless?
Can we start a number of redundant threads that are purely about redundancy?
I know martin, I know, if I can't add anything...
Wow, you read a lot into my simple yes/no question!
I have been here long enough to know that you have 14 miles of sabremetrics and sweaty, blood-stained spreadsheets behind every single post, Bonn.
jrodmc wrote:Ahhh, a week off from work and the UK, and all the usual Somber Suspects are still in rare form.Complaining about thread redundancy. Nice. From posters who created the patented "Why I hate Melo and you should too" thread spawns and the neverending, 4 year old (and counting) "The Trade ruined all our lives, and you're just too much of a Dolan minion to realize it" thread bots.
So at the risk of resurrecting redundancy:
1) Novak. --> last seen doing less than nothing in the playoffs. Last seen in a thread near you with multiple explanations about how his glaring deficiencies (both on O and D) have been solved and exploited by every team in the league that matters.
2) Camby. --> last seen not playing. Continually. For whatever reason. Spectre-like visions of past rebounds and blocks notwithstanding.
3) Draft picks --> Yawn....yeah, draft picks...right. We're the Knicks, remember?
JRodmc scours for redundant Melo threads, then redundantly repeats the redundant redundancy by redundantly repeating the redundant.
.......and the beat goes on.........
Soon we'll blame Layden for the body count in Gettysburg during the Civil War and I'll have to explain Al Bianchi was the GM then!
And the beat goes on.............
The window is closing on Melo's finger championship........"Bernard King would never have said that!!!!" cries the revisionist knick fans! "Ewing died for your sins" cries the fundamentalist!........"WWOD? Oak would never stand for that!!!", "Spree was just misundertood".......and finally............"Have we not learned from H20's contract"???????????
Man, Vin Baker was Lindsey Lohan way before there was TMZ!!!!!
It still remains that for what we gave up it's hard to get a player with the combination of size, skill and experience as AB. It's not like you can just pick up 7'ers with 3pt range for practically nothing. Novak/Camby = 0 and the picks have low value to this team. The reason those future picks are of little value is the nature of the franchise. This team doesn't build off of 2nd rd picks and the 1st rd pick isn't purely ours either. 2nd rd picks don't mean as much with the D League and Foreign leagues nowadays. Teams can find good talent without 2nd rd picks. Fans on this forum seem to overrate picks merely because of old school thinking and not properly evaluating the way teams can build today.
