Knicks · Knicks Sign Beno Udrih (page 3)

tkf wrote:

Clean wrote:So we lose Camby, Novak, Kidd, Cope, Q Rich, Earl Barron

and we gain Beno, MWP, Bargs, Hardaway, CJ Lesie, Jeremy Tyler

This has been an overall good offseason when factoring in the limitations we had on us. MWP covers copes production . Beno is a huge get over the nearly dead Kidd. We got youth for the present and future. If Bargs has anything left I think we can surprise everyone in the east again this year.

we also lose 3 draft picks...

I also like draft picks but I think the deal for Bargs is very good. They wanted to get rid of Camby and Novak contract anyways and was able to do it here. So basically we got Bargs for a 1st rounder and 2 2nd rounders. Unless we tank and the 1st rounder becomes a lottery pick and the 2nd rounders are in the 31-36 range then I think it was a fair deal.

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

Clean wrote:

tkf wrote:I think beno will be better than prigs... which is why I didn't like giving prigs a dime more..

No one could have thought we would have gotten Beno for the Min. I do think maybe Nate would have been better other signing if we knew we would get Beno later. I don't care about that anymore I am just happy we got a guy I have been wanting for a few years now.

well maybe not beno, but look at the list I posted days ago, there were other options better than prigs IMO.... Dj augustine being one of them..

besides being younger, how is DJ any better?

Speed element, Dj is much faster, and can actually get into the lane and finish, not saying he is great at that, but we don't get that at all from prigs, heck...we don't get enough of that from anyone on our team, especially our guards...

you want to talk pick and roll, DJ is actually good at the pull up jumper off the dribble. one of his few offensive strengths....

defensively he is average, but after watching him blow by our guards last year, it makes you wonder how good defensively we are there as well..

overall, i would take him over prigs not only because he is a decade younger, but he brings another element we need to this team.. youth and speed, and offensively I think he is more of a threat which actually bodes well in the pick and roll.. Isn't that supposed to be a big part of our offense now according to most?

If you want to be honest, all things being equal, which i don't think they are.. why not go younger and cheaper?

so finishing at rim and jump shot % are easy numbers to look up... where did you get your stats that suggest DJ is better in those categories?

Youth and speed are nice when you can put them to good use, but what about effectiveness?

tkf wrote:

Clean wrote:So we lose Camby, Novak, Kidd, Cope, Q Rich, Earl Barron

and we gain Beno, MWP, Bargs, Hardaway, CJ Lesie, Jeremy Tyler

This has been an overall good offseason when factoring in the limitations we had on us. MWP covers copes production . Beno is a huge get over the nearly dead Kidd. We got youth for the present and future. If Bargs has anything left I think we can surprise everyone in the east again this year.

we also lose 3 draft picks...

I agree, I hated losing the 3 picks for Bargs and you can see that by my many posts in various other threads on the subject. However, those picks don't help us next year. This is the reason why I did not put them there. This list was purely a talent lost vs talent gained list.

Clean wrote:

tkf wrote:

Clean wrote:So we lose Camby, Novak, Kidd, Cope, Q Rich, Earl Barron

and we gain Beno, MWP, Bargs, Hardaway, CJ Lesie, Jeremy Tyler

This has been an overall good offseason when factoring in the limitations we had on us. MWP covers copes production . Beno is a huge get over the nearly dead Kidd. We got youth for the present and future. If Bargs has anything left I think we can surprise everyone in the east again this year.

we also lose 3 draft picks...

I agree, I hated losing the 3 picks for Bargs and you can see that by my many posts in various other threads on the subject. However, those picks don't help us next year. This is the reason why I did not put them there. This list was purely a talent lost vs talent gained list.

I don't get sweating the picks. One pick is the second rounder from the Thunder for the Brewer trade. It is projected to be the second to last pick in next years draft. The other second rounder is for 2017. Melo will be 33 and Tyson will be 34 when that draft happens and most likely it is a late second rounder again. The first rounder should be a late pick. I am not sure where the Nuggets will be but I think the Knicks will still be a top 3-4 team in the east so the pick should be late.

CrushAlot wrote:

Clean wrote:

tkf wrote:

Clean wrote:So we lose Camby, Novak, Kidd, Cope, Q Rich, Earl Barron

and we gain Beno, MWP, Bargs, Hardaway, CJ Lesie, Jeremy Tyler

This has been an overall good offseason when factoring in the limitations we had on us. MWP covers copes production . Beno is a huge get over the nearly dead Kidd. We got youth for the present and future. If Bargs has anything left I think we can surprise everyone in the east again this year.

we also lose 3 draft picks...

I agree, I hated losing the 3 picks for Bargs and you can see that by my many posts in various other threads on the subject. However, those picks don't help us next year. This is the reason why I did not put them there. This list was purely a talent lost vs talent gained list.

I don't get sweating the picks. One pick is the second rounder from the Thunder for the Brewer trade. It is projected to be the second to last pick in next years draft. The other second rounder is for 2017. Melo will be 33 and Tyson will be 34 when that draft happens and most likely it is a late second rounder again. The first rounder should be a late pick. I am not sure where the Nuggets will be but I think the Knicks will still be a top 3-4 team in the east so the pick should be late.

For me the point has nothing to do with where the picks are. The point is that we could have gotten him without giving the 1st rounder. We just had to be patient and wait out the clock. The 1st thing the Raps Gm said was Bargs would be traded or Amnestied by the amnesty deadline. he said this publicly in his press conference after his signing was announced. Something tells me if he knew he could get 2 2nd rounders and a 1st rounder for Bargs he would have never thought about even talking about Amnesty. This shows his expectations on his return for bargs.

It is in the past now, I am ready to move on. I would not have even talked about it if TKF did not bring it up. I am now happy with the team we currently have and want to see who will be the last signing.

NYKBocker wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Very good signing. Beno should start from day one. They should get rid of Felton.

wow, what a very enlightened post. Get rid of a guy that played well and ISN'T overpaid....makes perfect sense if you live in an insane world. Felton is KEEPER.

Felton did play well in spurts last year. Other times he was putrid. He also has a tendency to sulk and cause trouble when he doesn't start. The minute they figure out that Beno is better and should start over Felton then you will see Felton destroy team dynamics. Its in his history. He has done this in Denver and in Portland.

Now your just making stuff up. Felton has been a very good character guy for his career. Larry Brown absolutely loved this guy and he has caused no problems as a Knick. Also, his play dropped when he had the hand injury but, as expected his production increased as his health improved.

Bonn1997 wrote:He's an OK player. His defensive #s are really bad but he helps on offense. I don't expect him to make a big difference but he's worth the league min.

Man you've got to stop thinking of players in a vacuum. It's like you look at the personal numbers and don't pay attention to the actual impact they can have on the team. I think you have a very flawed take on how this move plays into the way the Knicks will function. For one thing tell me how does Prigs look in the stat sheet as a player in a vacuum? Not good at all!!! However, his actual impact on the way the team plays is greater than his stats and Kidd had a similar positive impact earlier in the season.

Think of what these players do in terms of the Hockey assist before the assist. Often its the pass before the pass that leads to the score that is most important. The Knicks have a very specific way they play based on the flaws of the teams top scorers. We have to find other ways to make the team more efficient and part of that is having guards that can make intelligent decisions with the ball and able to knock down the open 3. Our guards also have to be able to run PnR at a high level but not be shot happy.

Now the Knicks have 2 very smart, high BB IQ PG's again, but Beno has more left in the tank than Kidd did. That's something that worked great for the Knicks and they clearly want to repeat that this year, but to have more endurance at the position than we did last year.

callmened wrote:dj augustine sucks

If anything he brings much needed depth and veteran savvy, but still added production at a good age(31).

Now if we can just sign Ivan Johnson, I'd say it's been a real productive "A" offseason considering our cap situation and the CBA.

Who says vets and free agents don't want to play in NY? He could've gotten the same offer elsewhere. He came to NY to win!

According to a league source with knowledge of the decision, Memphis was a strong suitor and Philadelphia also showed interest in Udrih, whose deciding factor was his chance to win with the Knicks.

Screw the Haters...I LOVE IT!

CrushAlot wrote:

callmened wrote:dj augustine sucks

Agree. I thought he would end up in Europe next year after this past season.

DJ: “Hopefully here we can get going on the right track and guys can have that winning atmosphere.”

versus

CrushAlot wrote: According a league source with knowledge of the decision, Memphis was a strong suitor and Philadelphia also showed interest in Udrih whose deciding factor was his chance to win with the Knicks

Hope versus chance.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He's an OK player. His defensive #s are really bad but he helps on offense. I don't expect him to make a big difference but he's worth the league min.

Man you've got to stop thinking of players in a vacuum. It's like you look at the personal numbers and don't pay attention to the actual impact they can have on the team. I think you have a very flawed take on how this move plays into the way the Knicks will function. For one thing tell me how does Prigs look in the stat sheet as a player in a vacuum? Not good at all!!! However, his actual impact on the way the team plays is greater than his stats and Kidd had a similar positive impact earlier in the season.

Think of what these players do in terms of the Hockey assist before the assist. Often its the pass before the pass that leads to the score that is most important. The Knicks have a very specific way they play based on the flaws of the teams top scorers. We have to find other ways to make the team more efficient and part of that is having guards that can make intelligent decisions with the ball and able to knock down the open 3. Our guards also have to be able to run PnR at a high level but not be shot happy.

Now the Knicks have 2 very smart, high BB IQ PG's again, but Beno has more left in the tank than Kidd did. That's something that worked great for the Knicks and they clearly want to repeat that this year, but to have more endurance at the position than we did last year.

Nope?

Whose team it was?

Feltons.

Kid did a good job. Jordan did not want to pay Felton and While Larry wanted DJ (dumb pick) Jordan let Felton walk.

Because of this, DJ, who is a bit of an intense guy and Felton really did not get along.

Can they be pro's about it? Perhaps.

Would DJ really challange Felton? Likley not.

But why do it?

Beno is 6'3 sees the floor and The Garden will welcome him with open arms.

This is an outstanding move as it changes the playing personality of the Knicks for the better. International players love New York beacue it offers tremendous cultural diversity and high energy.

It's about to be fun

ChuckBuck wrote:Love love love this move! This guy is clearly worth more than $1.2mill. Great move by Grunny to convince him to come to NY for the vet min.

If anything he brings much needed depth and veteran savvy, but still added production at a good age(31).

Now if we can just sign Ivan Johnson, I'd say it's been a real productive "A" offseason considering our cap situation and the CBA.

Who says vets and free agents don't want to play in NY? He could've gotten the same offer elsewhere. He came to NY to win!

According to a league source with knowledge of the decision, Memphis was a strong suitor and Philadelphia also showed interest in Udrih, whose deciding factor was his chance to win with the Knicks.

Screw the Haters...I LOVE IT!

Uhrih is coming off a huge contract that paid him $7M annually. We get him for the minimum.

Be still my heart.

That leaner/pull up jumper is unstoppable once he's on!

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:He's an OK player. His defensive #s are really bad but he helps on offense. I don't expect him to make a big difference but he's worth the league min.

Man you've got to stop thinking of players in a vacuum. It's like you look at the personal numbers and don't pay attention to the actual impact they can have on the team. I think you have a very flawed take on how this move plays into the way the Knicks will function. For one thing tell me how does Prigs look in the stat sheet as a player in a vacuum? Not good at all!!! However, his actual impact on the way the team plays is greater than his stats and Kidd had a similar positive impact earlier in the season.

Think of what these players do in terms of the Hockey assist before the assist. Often its the pass before the pass that leads to the score that is most important. The Knicks have a very specific way they play based on the flaws of the teams top scorers. We have to find other ways to make the team more efficient and part of that is having guards that can make intelligent decisions with the ball and able to knock down the open 3. Our guards also have to be able to run PnR at a high level but not be shot happy.

Now the Knicks have 2 very smart, high BB IQ PG's again, but Beno has more left in the tank than Kidd did. That's something that worked great for the Knicks and they clearly want to repeat that this year, but to have more endurance at the position than we did last year.

The guy who always overestimates the Knicks win totals by at least ten says I have a very flawed outlook! Thanks!

Typical punk response. Doesn't even begin to address my post but that's OK. Guessing Season win totals mean next to nothing. It's a guess and I tend to guess a bit higher than some. Big deal. What does that have to do with a PLAYER EVALUATION??? Stick to the topic.

The reason the Knicks wanted Beno isn't based on personal stats. There are PG's who could put up bigger numbers but not really fit into the team concept in the same way. We saw how that worked last year with Kidd and Prigs helping the team play winning BB. Kidd was just too old, but the idea was right. Now they want to repeat that kind of chemistry but with a player who should be able to endure an entire season without breaking down like Kidd did. This team needs brains on the court and guys willing to keep the ball moving and making the right decision with the ball.

callmened wrote:dj augustine sucks

Yep - Augustine handled the ball like a hot-potato in the playoffs against the Knicks.

It got bad enough that Pacer's just pulled him.

Only thing that kept Knicks in that series was Pacer's turnover issues.

Udrih greater than Augustine....especially off the high-pick & roll Knicks use.