Knicks · Excellent Bargs tape and why he should do well here (page 2)

Bargs isn't replacing Novak, Artest is. Bargs is replacing Camby. Artest is going to see a lot of his mins at the 3/4 and Bargs is going to see a lot of his mins at the 4/5.

Nice video. Any highlights of him on defense...
If you will check this 41-pint game on tape... he is so bad even Stat looks adequate.
Actually Stat was guarding him in this game.
If Stat-level defenders will guard him every game he will be an offensive beast. Who wont be?

callmened wrote:Hello?!?! Lol...how come no one is concerned with his lack of def or rebs?

They too busy slobbin over highlight clips, ones that pretty much every player in the NBA has.

He does replace Novak though with a more expanded role, he has more ways to score, but still rebounds and defends like poop.

His talent has never been the issue, the other side of the court is and his true desire to be part of a good team.

jrodmc wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:People want this to go by what the rumor is and not what the tape says. The dude is a good player. Knicks will be better because of it.

Nobody has questioned his talent. In fact people ahve been very fair/objective when it comes to bargnani. Yes ihe can shoot for a big man and that will help against most teams. However the Knicks biggets weakness is inside. Also you have to take into account that Bargnani has been injury prone.

your right and I hope we get another big but, I see Bargs as more of a Novak replacement than an actual big. People focus on his size as opposed to his personal style of play. He is a big that never learned to play like a big imo.....more like guys who plays guard as a teenagers then has this huge growth spurt. At that point, it's hard to completely alter your game to suit what people think it should be because of your size.

Bargs game is nothing like Novaks... that's the point of the tape. You guys wanna say he is a Novak replacement but he is way more than a 3pt specialist. The dude can score all over the court and he will drive and dunk on your team. When had Novak ever done that.?

Bargs isn't Shaq and he isn't Patrick Ewing. The dude is still very good. He's a capable starter and legit scorer when healthy. Health is the issue. Training camp will solve all doubts.

you obviously didn't read or comprehend my entire post. I didn't describe Bargs as a one e dimensional 3point shooter. I said he played like a guard who had a huge growth spurt and never learned to change his game. That doesn't sound like Novak to me!!

Plllllllusss 1

Barg's is going to stretch the floor and, if he stays healthy, give us the Bosh effect on O. Spread 'em, Hibbert!

And let's see, Woody took a career psycho and got him to SMOTY, and Melo averaged 8 rpg and showed flashes on D. Things can happen here.

The league owes us a year of health.

Watch the games!

You dont trade for a Bargs to stretch the floor--you trade for a Bargs to do what Pau Gasol did for the Lakers--get easy baskets with the room you have inherited from Kobe Bryant. We have three point shooters we need Bargs to post toast dish and swish. Its pretty esy to see just looking at his stats. It becomes easy to guard a 7 footer the farther away he moves from the basket ---basketball 101.

callmened wrote:Hello?!?! Lol...how come no one is concerned with his lack of def or rebs?

How come no one is concerned that Tyson chandler can't do anything but dunk and slap rebounds into the backcourt?

I guess me and Briggs the only ones that think bargs can post up....tons of video says he can and very well yet he's Steve Novak

i think bargs can do it ALL offesively...assuming hes healthy

but im not worried about his offense...its his defense that concerns me...i dont want him playing more than 20 mins with his horrible defense and poor rebounding!

callmened wrote:i think bargs can do it ALL offesively...assuming hes healthy

but im not worried about his offense...its his defense that concerns me...i dont want him playing more than 20 mins with his horrible defense and poor rebounding!

Each unit will have defensive players Artest Chandler Prigioni Martin Shumpert Im not worried about anyone 1 individual--all he has to do is play into a team D and use that 7 foot size to get easy baskets on the O and clog the paint on the D.

i hear you BRIGGS. and woody overall has had done a good job in HIDING the defensive weakness of this team (MELO, AMARE). im just concerned about bargs...not just his defense and rebounding but his LACK of effort. unless he changes, i really hope he doesnt play much. he'll be too much of a liability on defense.

callmened wrote:i think bargs can do it ALL offesively...assuming hes healthy

but im not worried about his offense...its his defense that concerns me...i dont want him playing more than 20 mins with his horrible defense and poor rebounding!

He is a very good post defender that struggles with rim protection and help D if you go by the numbers. When he played with Bosh he was the primary defender. Now he has solid wing defenders and post defenders helping him.

I'm intrigued to see what happens.

Here's one of Bargs hanging 24 points and 12 boards (no that's not a typo) on the Knicks:

Notice how all the attention that Bosh attracts opens up things for Bargs. Imagine what he'll do playing next to Melo.

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:Here's one of Bargs hanging 24 points and 12 boards (no that's not a typo) on the Knicks:

Notice how all the attention that Bosh attracts opens up things for Bargs. Imagine what he'll do playing next to Melo.

Man the Knicks were really bad that year. No first round pick after all their folly either. Hill and Douglas weren't even in the game at all.

KEEPCAMBYNY wrote:Here's one of Bargs hanging 24 points and 12 boards (no that's not a typo) on the Knicks:

Notice how all the attention that Bosh attracts opens up things for Bargs. Imagine what he'll do playing next to Melo.

Thats what you dont want--look at the massive difference between the tapes where Bargs sets up. In tape 2 he sets up 26 feet from the basket. yes he made 5-6 3's but thats fools gold. Thats why his career hasnt been consistent or as good as it couldve been. He was allowed in Toronto to play way to far from the basket--if NY makes the same mistake--its on them--but I dont think they will.

You want your big to be versatile. That's what Sheed could do when he was in his prime. Woody is gonna want to take advantage of having another 7'er and one that can do it all on the floor. Where is AB not able to score? He can post, PnR/PnP, drive and finish, turn around jumper and yes hit 3's. If you're a good coach you should be able to put him in great position to do damage every night.

I see Woody using AB in the post like Amar'e and also in PnP and a little out at 3pt range like Sheed would do from time to time, but not like Novak. AB is too talented to limit in any kind of way. Give him touches and let him get hot and no one is gonna be able to stop him. It's all going to be about the coaching and what Woodson demands of AB. Woody will have to call plays that force AB to be close to the basket where he can do work.

As you can tell im not a fan of bargs (even though i was a fan of the trade...shorter contract and an expiring contract next yr). I have no concerns about his offense. I think theyll find a way for him to score. I work about his defense, rebounding, injurysand hustle. His presense makes us softer despite his size.

I really hope he proves me wrong

callmened wrote:As you can tell im not a fan of bargs (even though i was a fan of the trade...shorter contract and an expiring contract next yr). I have no concerns about his offense. I think theyll find a way for him to score. I work about his defense, rebounding, injurysand hustle. His presense makes us softer despite his size.

I really hope he proves me wrong

Well Bargnani is a better man defender than Novak and a better scorer than Camby. I think he can be fine in a team defensive scheme where you have Tyson in the mix. If you put 2 7'ers in there you should be able to get some defense out of them. It's not impossible for AB to be taught the team defensive concept and where he can fit in. When people talk about AB's defense they are really talking about his awareness and help defense. They expect that he will know when to rotate and give help setting down the lane. Woody should be able to teach him what his assignments are and the way he should move on D to help close down lanes.

Woody should be able to teach AB to patrol his space on the floor and be a menace with his length. I don't believe that AB is a lost cause. Not when you have a winning culture and more accountability from teammates who know what it means to play winning ball. He didn't have that kind of peer pressure in Toronto.

Bargs averaged just as much blocks as Chandler when healthy.... put that in your pipe and smoke it!

tyson doesnt block shots...he alters shots...he also defends the PNR well

bargs is def an upgrade over camby and novak..no matter how much i dont like bargs, i can acknowledge that hes still an upgrade

im hoping that woody's defensive principals (switching & hybrid zone) cover up his deficiencies.

but there are other concerns...his injuries and EFFORT..that you cant coach

knickscity wrote:

callmened wrote:Hello?!?! Lol...how come no one is concerned with his lack of def or rebs?

They too busy slobbin over highlight clips, ones that pretty much every player in the NBA has.

He does replace Novak though with a more expanded role, he has more ways to score, but still rebounds and defends like poop.

His talent has never been the issue, the other side of the court is and his true desire to be part of a good team.

you are right, it is a HUGE concern! I think, looking at the bigger picture, that it is better not to have Melo banging with power forwards in the post to help keep him healthy. At the 3, Melo will still be a decent rebounder but, lets look at it this way. A healthy Amare was a piss poor rebounder as well. The team is going to have to gang rebound but, it shouldn't be too bad. JR is very good on the boards for a guard and both Shump and Artest can step up there too. Wish KMart was a better rebounder.

nixluva wrote:You want your big to be versatile. That's what Sheed could do when he was in his prime. Woody is gonna want to take advantage of having another 7'er and one that can do it all on the floor. Where is AB not able to score? He can post, PnR/PnP, drive and finish, turn around jumper and yes hit 3's. If you're a good coach you should be able to put him in great position to do damage every night.

I see Woody using AB in the post like Amar'e and also in PnP and a little out at 3pt range like Sheed would do from time to time, but not like Novak. AB is too talented to limit in any kind of way. Give him touches and let him get hot and no one is gonna be able to stop him. It's all going to be about the coaching and what Woodson demands of AB. Woody will have to call plays that force AB to be close to the basket where he can do work.

Giving him *free reign* caused Bargs to play inconsistent his whole career. You want to give him some basketball discipline--his basketball IQ needs work so to speak. He needs to play smarter basketball--use his incredible assets and touch the right way. Its ok to take 1-2 open 3's a game---but thats that. For his efficiency to improve he must be a majority 14 feet and in.

EnySpree wrote:I guess me and Briggs the only ones that think bargs can post up....tons of video says he can and very well yet he's Steve Novak

He can but that's not why he was brought here. He is here to stretch the floor. Don't set yourselves up for disappointment. We are talking about Mike Woodson here. Not necessarily an offensive guru