Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:JamesKPolk wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I like Novak but I wonder why many teams have let him go even though he continues to show that he is a good/great shooter.As for Bargs creating more space I don't know how you can judge that. What I do think is that because of his versatility if Bargs is on defenders will be in a conundrum trying to defend him. With Novak you could lay off and defend him with a small guy that can close hard which would take away all the work an offense did to get the defense of balance. Because Bargs can actually put the ball on the ground to score he puts more pressure on the D and possibly keeps the D off balance. The key will be him making the simple passes as the D rotates when he drives.
Whatever you say doesn't matter. Anything he does is negated by his absolutely awful defensive and rebounding play. It's like Eddy Curry's 19 and 7 season. It was a complete stat-pad, empty stat of a season. Andrea Bargnani is our new Eddy Curry. He is the laziest, softest loser we have had here since Curry left the team. You and many others who try to rationalize every single Knicks trade in existence will soon come to realize the painful truth. The man is pathetic on the basketball court. Be prepared for him to feel the wrath of the fans early on in the season if he puts up the effort he has his entire career until now.
The difference for AB is that he's going to be part of a roster that has more talent around him. There are some similarities between Curry and Bargnani but I don't think he's as bad as you're making him out to be. The role that Bargnani is playing is far different than the role Curry played for this team. Bargnani doesn't have to hold down the middle on D or be a beast on the boards. We need him to mainly help Melo with the scoring. Bargnani isn't being asked to carry this team.
I think we need to give Bargs time to adjust to the culture of this team which is to work hard and give effort. When Bargs sees himself on film any lack of effort should be addressed by Woody and also in practice. We'll see how things work out here in NY. I don't really want to get too carried away with assuming Bargs is gonna be a problem before we even get him thru his 1st camp with this team. I'm not saying it's not a concern, but the jury is still out on this.
His problem areas (basically everything except scoring) can't be excused by being on poor teams though. Being on a bad team won't make you get fewer rebounds or blocks or steals. Assists and turnovers are his only bad areas that you could make that argument for.
The most important stat is the one you never bring up, wins...
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:nixluva wrote:JamesKPolk wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I like Novak but I wonder why many teams have let him go even though he continues to show that he is a good/great shooter.As for Bargs creating more space I don't know how you can judge that. What I do think is that because of his versatility if Bargs is on defenders will be in a conundrum trying to defend him. With Novak you could lay off and defend him with a small guy that can close hard which would take away all the work an offense did to get the defense of balance. Because Bargs can actually put the ball on the ground to score he puts more pressure on the D and possibly keeps the D off balance. The key will be him making the simple passes as the D rotates when he drives.
Whatever you say doesn't matter. Anything he does is negated by his absolutely awful defensive and rebounding play. It's like Eddy Curry's 19 and 7 season. It was a complete stat-pad, empty stat of a season. Andrea Bargnani is our new Eddy Curry. He is the laziest, softest loser we have had here since Curry left the team. You and many others who try to rationalize every single Knicks trade in existence will soon come to realize the painful truth. The man is pathetic on the basketball court. Be prepared for him to feel the wrath of the fans early on in the season if he puts up the effort he has his entire career until now.
The difference for AB is that he's going to be part of a roster that has more talent around him. There are some similarities between Curry and Bargnani but I don't think he's as bad as you're making him out to be. The role that Bargnani is playing is far different than the role Curry played for this team. Bargnani doesn't have to hold down the middle on D or be a beast on the boards. We need him to mainly help Melo with the scoring. Bargnani isn't being asked to carry this team.
I think we need to give Bargs time to adjust to the culture of this team which is to work hard and give effort. When Bargs sees himself on film any lack of effort should be addressed by Woody and also in practice. We'll see how things work out here in NY. I don't really want to get too carried away with assuming Bargs is gonna be a problem before we even get him thru his 1st camp with this team. I'm not saying it's not a concern, but the jury is still out on this.
His problem areas (basically everything except scoring) can't be excused by being on poor teams though. Being on a bad team won't make you get fewer rebounds or blocks or steals. Assists and turnovers are his only bad areas that you could make that argument for.
The most important stat is the one you never bring up, wins...
hahahaha
Bonn, you are coming across as someone who is nitpicking and whining about what stat box isn't being filled by Melo..Fact is he is a tremendous player..He led the Knicks to 54 wins last season, best in a decade..Durant, Kobe, Wade, all demonstrated what it's like not having a supporting cast when u get to the playoffs, but somehow Melo's assist/to ratio/ rebounding is why we can't advance...And he is a good rebounder for a small forward..If Melo does all the things u think he should be doing, he will be Michael Jordan..
One thing u can't teach Bonn, he is a winner ...He has won at every level he has played except the NBA..His teams win ball games..U need a supporting cast to win NBA rings, Ask LeBron...Just a number two scorer is all the Knicks need Bonn, to silence the whiners...
Who am I kidding, Prigs will get the credit...
We talking about Melo or Bargnani? My bad if you were being serious. My ignoring win totals (your claim) would only help Bargnani. The last thing he'd want is for me to look at his teams' track records. That's why I thought you were joking.
Regarding Melo...well I'll save that for a Melo thread. Nevermind.
Bonn1997 wrote:We talking about Melo or Bargnani? My bad if you were being serious. My ignoring win totals (your claim) would only help Bargnani. The last thing he'd want is for me to look at his teams' track records. That's why I thought you were joking. Regarding Melo...well I'll save that for a Melo thread. Nevermind.
My bad Bonn, I'm all over u like a cheap suit in the wrong thread..
By the way, I like the Bargs trade, Novak and Camby was useless..
Eh, most Raptors fans are more excited about getting some 2nd round picks than keeping Bargnani - actually *far* more excited about the picks would be more accurate. Look at all these reactions.
http://fans.raptors.nba.com/topic/635-kn...
Bonn1997 wrote:Eh, most Raptors fans are more excited about getting some 2nd round picks than keeping Bargnani - actually *far* more excited about the picks would be more accurate. Look at all these reactions.
http://fans.raptors.nba.com/topic/635-kn...
The NY Post back page stated "Good Riddance" when Ewing was traded..
holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Eh, most Raptors fans are more excited about getting some 2nd round picks than keeping Bargnani - actually *far* more excited about the picks would be more accurate. Look at all these reactions.
http://fans.raptors.nba.com/topic/635-kn...
The NY Post back page stated "Good Riddance" when Ewing was traded..
So Bargs has two bad NBA seasons left and then is gonna be out of the league? I think I get the analogy.
Andrea Bargnani was Toronto's Ewing? LOL
This is what happens on this forum. People who have no clue about basketball trying to rationalize awful players because they're Knicks. 100% guarantee that if Bargnani was a Net people here would be claiming how much of a worthless player he is and how he wont impact the Nets at all.
Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Eh, most Raptors fans are more excited about getting some 2nd round picks than keeping Bargnani - actually *far* more excited about the picks would be more accurate. Look at all these reactions.
http://fans.raptors.nba.com/topic/635-kn...
The NY Post back page stated "Good Riddance" when Ewing was traded..
So Bargs has two bad NBA seasons left and then is gonna be out of the league? I think I get the analogy.
If that's the way u choose to spin...Spin!!!
JamesKPolk wrote:Andrea Bargnani was Toronto's Ewing? LOL
And he thinks I'm the one doing the spinning!
Bonn1997 wrote:JamesKPolk wrote:Andrea Bargnani was Toronto's Ewing? LOL
And he thinks I'm the one doing the spinning!
you guys so daft that that is how you read Hol's post?
martin wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:JamesKPolk wrote:Andrea Bargnani was Toronto's Ewing? LOL
And he thinks I'm the one doing the spinning!
you guys so daft that that is how you read Hol's post?
No I understood his point. Basically, he's pointing out that it is possible for fans to be wrong in their evaluations of traded away players. No one would deny that that is possible though. So it's absurd to try to use it to negate the seven years worth of knowledge the Toronto fans have accumulated from watching Bargnani.
I thought this was obvious enough that I didn't have to write it all out
nixluva, i know youre a fan. and at this point im just going to post this because i think its amusing. its not a shot at you at all - i respect youre opinions (since you actually back them up with SOLID data)
In the ESPN Knicks preview - "Still needing a health boost and defensive upgrade, the Knicks then traded for Bargnani, which is like going to the store for a gallon of milk and coming back with a bag of mulch. Bargnani offers nothing of what the Knicks need and everything they should avoid. He's an injury-prone big man who doesn't play defense and creates loads of terrible shots. Bargnani shot 39.9 percent from the floor last season, including 30.9 percent from downtown. He's growing increasingly terrified of contact as his free-throw rate was sliced in half compared to 2011-12 and his rebounding rate plummeted to just 4.6 boards per 36 minutes, which is pathetic for a 7-footer."
Its imperative to use Barganani like a Pau Gasol 4. So far Ive seen him positioned far from the basket--I did not envision this. If we play our offensive 7 footer 25 feet from the basket--we will not have the success I believed we can have. Carmelo is our stretch 3-4. If we cant produce a post game--we will not beat the best teams with our composition. If we use Barganani as a post 4 and he can average 20-7 48%+ then its a whole different ball of wax a few teams will be able to compete with us. If we use him as he was used in Toronto--than we will pay the price.
I can live with his long range shooting but I hope he can help on defense and the boards
JamesKPolk wrote:Andrea Bargnani was Toronto's Ewing? LOLThis is what happens on this forum. People who have no clue about basketball trying to rationalize awful players because they're Knicks. 100% guarantee that if Bargnani was a Net people here would be claiming how much of a worthless player he is and how he wont impact the Nets at all.
LOL.. so true, I said this so many times..
The nets get terry, pierce and Garnett, all champions, a little older, but still effective HOF players(at least two of them) and knick fans say they are overhyped..
knicks get bargnani, beno and a way past his prime artest who was good never great and we are not only better, but poised to beat miami.. go figure..
Nyets are a frickin juggernaut man. It's crazy watching their games and seeing KG, pierce, joe Johnson, deron, Lopez, terry, ak47, Reggie Evans, Shaun Livingston all the SAME team. Fuckin ridiculous. All the while the Knicks have 7ft Bargnani strictly camped out at the 3pt when he is a worse 3pt shooter than Melo and Shumpert and we have no interior offense. Melo is by no stretch of the imagination a beast inside. He is better on the wing
callmened wrote:nixluva, i know youre a fan. and at this point im just going to post this because i think its amusing. its not a shot at you at all - i respect youre opinions (since you actually back them up with SOLID data)In the ESPN Knicks preview - "Still needing a health boost and defensive upgrade, the Knicks then traded for Bargnani, which is like going to the store for a gallon of milk and coming back with a bag of mulch. Bargnani offers nothing of what the Knicks need and everything they should avoid. He's an injury-prone big man who doesn't play defense and creates loads of terrible shots. Bargnani shot 39.9 percent from the floor last season, including 30.9 percent from downtown. He's growing increasingly terrified of contact as his free-throw rate was sliced in half compared to 2011-12 and his rebounding rate plummeted to just 4.6 boards per 36 minutes, which is pathetic for a 7-footer."
I disagree. It's more like going to the store for milk and coming back with a gallon of cyanide
tkf wrote:JamesKPolk wrote:Andrea Bargnani was Toronto's Ewing? LOLThis is what happens on this forum. People who have no clue about basketball trying to rationalize awful players because they're Knicks. 100% guarantee that if Bargnani was a Net people here would be claiming how much of a worthless player he is and how he wont impact the Nets at all.
LOL.. so true, I said this so many times..
The nets get terry, pierce and Garnett, all champions, a little older, but still effective HOF players(at least two of them) and knick fans say they are overhyped..
knicks get bargnani, beno and a way past his prime artest who was good never great and we are not only better, but poised to beat miami.. go figure..
I like how Artest didn't get the champions label but way past prime. Everyone listed is past his prime except Bargs but he has his own issues.
