Not sure how Vogel is handing out preseason minutes but I was able to catch the second half of the Pacers game Saturday night. Cope didn't play until the final 3 minutes of the fourth quarter. Hill was playing most of the second half. Maybe Vogel is going to play Hill one game and Cope the next but if not it appears Hill is ahead of Cope on the depth chart. Obviously too early to tell but before calling Cope the savior of the Pacers I think it is important to note that he got third string, not in the rotation minutes on Saturday.
CrushAlot wrote:Not sure how Vogel is handing out preseason minutes but I was able to catch the second half of the Pacers game Saturday night. Cope didn't play until the final 3 minutes of the fourth quarter. Hill was playing most of the second half. Maybe Vogel is going to play Hill one game and Cope the next but if not it appears Hill is ahead of Cope on the depth chart. Obviously too early to tell but before calling Cope the savior of the Pacers I think it is important to note that he got third string, not in the rotation minutes on Saturday.
Copeland is also coming off of Knee surgery so take that into account when it comes to his playing time.
I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
What move and decision doesn't backfire for the Knicks?
gunsnewing wrote:Mike Woodson does not have the great young coaching mind that Vogel has. Woodson is good at motivating his players as evident by how we've avoided long losing streaks. But when it come to game and adjustments other coaches run circles around him. This is who he is. Going back to Atlanta. He will get you in the playoffs but that's about it. He will be severely out coached every time. Fortunately for him he has the built in excuse that the roster is flawed and clumsy. Making him the perfect coach for a team going nowhere for 2yrs
Could'nt agree more, Woodson can't adjust properly, and he's always adjusting to the opposing team instead of them adjusting to us..
Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
The funny thing about your comments that Copeland at 29 years old is among the upper 3rd of older players on the Pacers.
foosballnick wrote:Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
The funny thing about your comments that Copeland at 29 years old is among the upper 3rd of older players on the Pacers.
Young Cope is older then Anthony and Felton.
CrushAlot wrote:foosballnick wrote:Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
The funny thing about your comments that Copeland at 29 years old is among the upper 3rd of older players on the Pacers.
Young Cope is older then Anthony and Felton.
Yet the coach treated him like a 20yr rookie and enabled others like JR
Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
coaches don't give a shit about that, they want to win games. especially in Woody's case last year.
gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:foosballnick wrote:Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
The funny thing about your comments that Copeland at 29 years old is among the upper 3rd of older players on the Pacers.
Young Cope is older then Anthony and Felton.
Yet the coach treated him like a 20yr rookie and enabled others like JR
So the coach treated a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D like....well a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D.......an you complain and point to his preference to use the SMOTY as a reason for his incompetence?
foosballnick wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:foosballnick wrote:Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
The funny thing about your comments that Copeland at 29 years old is among the upper 3rd of older players on the Pacers.
Young Cope is older then Anthony and Felton.
Yet the coach treated him like a 20yr rookie and enabled others like JR
So the coach treated a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D like....well a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D.......an you complain and point to his preference to use the SMOTY as a reason for his incompetence?
Also, the coach started Cope in the first game of the boston series. Cope wasn't able to score a point in that series and looked shook. He was much more effective against Indy but that stuff stays with a coach and might cause him to think twice about putting a guy in in a pressure situation.
CrushAlot wrote:foosballnick wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:foosballnick wrote:Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
The funny thing about your comments that Copeland at 29 years old is among the upper 3rd of older players on the Pacers.
Young Cope is older then Anthony and Felton.
Yet the coach treated him like a 20yr rookie and enabled others like JR
So the coach treated a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D like....well a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D.......an you complain and point to his preference to use the SMOTY as a reason for his incompetence?
Also, the coach started Cope in the first game of the boston series. Cope wasn't able to score a point in that series and looked shook. He was much more effective against Indy but that stuff stays with a coach and might cause him to think twice about putting a guy in in a pressure situation.
Are you giving him and excuse for that ridiculous move..please
knicks1248 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:foosballnick wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:foosballnick wrote:Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
The funny thing about your comments that Copeland at 29 years old is among the upper 3rd of older players on the Pacers.
Young Cope is older then Anthony and Felton.
Yet the coach treated him like a 20yr rookie and enabled others like JR
So the coach treated a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D like....well a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D.......an you complain and point to his preference to use the SMOTY as a reason for his incompetence?
Also, the coach started Cope in the first game of the boston series. Cope wasn't able to score a point in that series and looked shook. He was much more effective against Indy but that stuff stays with a coach and might cause him to think twice about putting a guy in in a pressure situation.
Are you giving him and excuse for that ridiculous move..please
Let's say you are the coach of the Knicks during playoffs. Cope is 2-12 over the last 5 games. What is your move?
Woody played Cope for for a minute the 6th game and then played him a lot more after that.
what would you have done differently?
I don't think Crush provided an excuse for Woody, it would semi sound reasoning.
playa2 wrote:This is for all who thought so little about Copeland lack of playing time against the Pacers wouldn't have helped the Knicks defeat the Pacers in 2nd rd and play Miami in Conf finals. Who ever didn't tell Woody to play Copeland needs to held accountable too. Chris Copeland, 29, bounced around Europe before finally making it to the NBA with the Knicks last season. His ability to stretch the floor caused problems for Indiana when Knicks coach Mike Woodson, however briefly, played Copeland at center. The move forced the Pacers to take Roy Hibbert out because the All-Star center struggles to defend 25 feet from the basket. (That is the player who kicked our butt when it counted.
According to Copeland, when he arrived for training camp both Pacers coach Frank Vogel and Hibbert told him, “We’re happy we don’t have to worry about you anymore.”
Woodson was criticized for not giving Copeland a bigger role in the postseason, when Copeland averaged 11 minutes during the playoffs. At times he appeared to be a better alternative to both Amar’e Stoudemire and Kenyon Martin.
I love how nobody talked DIRECTLY to what Vogel and Hibbert said , about how happy they were to not have to worry about him anymore, but try and deflect it to me. For that I laugh at you !
playa2 wrote:playa2 wrote:This is for all who thought so little about Copeland lack of playing time against the Pacers wouldn't have helped the Knicks defeat the Pacers in 2nd rd and play Miami in Conf finals. Who ever didn't tell Woody to play Copeland needs to held accountable too. Chris Copeland, 29, bounced around Europe before finally making it to the NBA with the Knicks last season. His ability to stretch the floor caused problems for Indiana when Knicks coach Mike Woodson, however briefly, played Copeland at center. The move forced the Pacers to take Roy Hibbert out because the All-Star center struggles to defend 25 feet from the basket. (That is the player who kicked our butt when it counted.
According to Copeland, when he arrived for training camp both Pacers coach Frank Vogel and Hibbert told him, “We’re happy we don’t have to worry about you anymore.”
Woodson was criticized for not giving Copeland a bigger role in the postseason, when Copeland averaged 11 minutes during the playoffs. At times he appeared to be a better alternative to both Amar’e Stoudemire and Kenyon Martin.
I love how nobody talked DIRECTLY to what Vogel and Hibbert said , about how happy they were to not have to worry about him anymore, but try and deflect it to me. For that I laugh at you !
Good for them. I tend to chalk it up to team rhetoric. Team signs a new player, coach and teammate break ice with positive comments. I'd be shocked if Cope became a major part of that rotation, but who knows. Vogel has the opportunity to show just how happy they are.
"We're happy we don't have to worry about you anymore."
As a Knick fan, I share their sentiments.
foosballnick wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:foosballnick wrote:Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
The funny thing about your comments that Copeland at 29 years old is among the upper 3rd of older players on the Pacers.
Young Cope is older then Anthony and Felton.
Yet the coach treated him like a 20yr rookie and enabled others like JR
So the coach treated a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D like....well a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D.......an you complain and point to his preference to use the SMOTY as a reason for his incompetence?
smoty is a regular-season award. there is almost zero continuity between the mamby pamby jayvee season and its silly pissant awards and all-star games and whatnot. smith is a jayvee player, always has been always will be. come playoff time he can't handle his shit.
vogel rightfully said woodson was a moron for not playing copeland in that series. i am going to listen to vogel's opinion, especially since bird decided that copeland was worth picking up. sounds like an endorsement to me. you?
woodson is mostly hat and no cattle. he practiced double standards last season and any fan of the knicks should call bullshit on that. he should be harder on his "favorites" not easier.
if we could woodson for vogel tomorrow would you do it?
Yes and twice on Sunday are u kidding?! I would do it for a lot less than Vogel. Vogel is 1 of the top 3-5 coaches in the league and he is young and great at actually developing players.
Let's see:
pops
Vogel
Thibs
Doc
Carlisle
woodson
*crickets
...
Anyone?.....
dk7th wrote:foosballnick wrote:gunsnewing wrote:CrushAlot wrote:foosballnick wrote:Solace wrote:I think a young player like Copeland not getting more minutes was also money related. I do think teams are adverse to giving free agent young players who haven't proven much yet big minutes, because then the price goes way up. In the Knicks case, it backfired, but this is a common mentality.
The funny thing about your comments that Copeland at 29 years old is among the upper 3rd of older players on the Pacers.
Young Cope is older then Anthony and Felton.
Yet the coach treated him like a 20yr rookie and enabled others like JR
So the coach treated a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D like....well a 28 year old journeyman rookie who does not play D.......an you complain and point to his preference to use the SMOTY as a reason for his incompetence?
smoty is a regular-season award. there is almost zero continuity between the mamby pamby jayvee season and its silly pissant awards and all-star games and whatnot. smith is a jayvee player, always has been always will be. come playoff time he can't handle his shit.
vogel rightfully said woodson was a moron for not playing copeland in that series. i am going to listen to vogel's opinion, especially since bird decided that copeland was worth picking up. sounds like an endorsement to me. you?
woodson is mostly hat and no cattle. he practiced double standards last season and any fan of the knicks should call bullshit on that. he should be harder on his "favorites" not easier.
if we could woodson for vogel tomorrow would you do it?
if you could get season tickets for Indy games and a free hat would you do it?
