BRIGGS wrote:I think the Knicks are absolutely loaded and much improved from last year wehave everything you need to win it from the pgs to the big men d to the o and I honestly have not thought this good about the team in 20 years
I don't agree but from your lips to god's ears my man
Well I hope you're right!!
People tend to overrate rebounding IMO. YES it's important, but it's not the end all and be all of BB. The Knicks just have to be decent at rebounding in order to get the job done. The Knicks did a horrible job on the boards in the playoffs with Tyson hurting and the team playing small most of the time. Still that isn't really what killed us. What killed us was that our offense devolved into ISO Melo and practically nothing else was clicking. JR and Kidd didn't show up in the playoffs either. This year this team is MUCH stronger up and down the roster. We shouldn't have to resort to such a limited offense as we had in the playoffs.
To start the season last year Woody had a much more diverse offensive attack, but as the season moved along they became more limited. I don't see that happening this year. There's just too much versatility on this roster. IF Woodson will have learned anything from last years playoffs it has to be that heavy ISO can't win in the playoffs beyond the 1st rd. You might beat some weak team with that crap, but no 2nd rd team is gonna let you run such a simple offense like that. I think it's clear from the additions the Knicks made that they don't intend to play that way anymore.
nixluva wrote:People tend to overrate rebounding IMO. YES it's important, but it's not the end all and be all of BB. The Knicks just have to be decent at rebounding in order to get the job done. The Knicks did a horrible job on the boards in the playoffs with Tyson hurting and the team playing small most of the time. Still that isn't really what killed us. What killed us was that our offense devolved into ISO Melo and practically nothing else was clicking. JR and Kidd didn't show up in the playoffs either. This year this team is MUCH stronger up and down the roster. We shouldn't have to resort to such a limited offense as we had in the playoffs. To start the season last year Woody had a much more diverse offensive attack, but as the season moved along they became more limited. I don't see that happening this year. There's just too much versatility on this roster. IF Woodson will have learned anything from last years playoffs it has to be that heavy ISO can't win in the playoffs beyond the 1st rd. You might beat some weak team with that crap, but no 2nd rd team is gonna let you run such a simple offense like that. I think it's clear from the additions the Knicks made that they don't intend to play that way anymore.
I think I heard Bargs actually say that! The next words out of his mouth were, "People also overrate passing, turnovers, steals, and blocks!"
I think this is the best team and the best shot they have had in a long time. I think the Knicks can beat any team in a series. I am worried about Chicago but hopefully the Knicks match up with them in the ecf.
CrushAlot wrote:I think this is the best team and the best shot they have had in a long time. I think the Knicks can beat any team in a series. I am worried about Chicago but hopefully the Knicks match up with them in the ecf.
I heard the same thing last year.... I was also in Miami two weeks ago, and I heard the heat fans say the say things knicks fans are saying in this thread....
In the end, it is better to be realistic and reasonable when assessing your own team, I know that is hard to do for some fans, especially knick fans.. but if you honestly look around at the rest of the east, I am not sure how we can talk any kind of championship.... I really don't like setting myself up for let downs...
tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I think this is the best team and the best shot they have had in a long time. I think the Knicks can beat any team in a series. I am worried about Chicago but hopefully the Knicks match up with them in the ecf.
I heard the same thing last year.... I was also in Miami two weeks ago, and I heard the heat fans say the say things knicks fans are saying in this thread....
In the end, it is better to be realistic and reasonable when assessing your own team, I know that is hard to do for some fans, especially knick fans.. but if you honestly look around at the rest of the east, I am not sure how we can talk any kind of championship.... I really don't like setting myself up for let downs...
I agree that there is always the opportunity for a letdown and the Heat certainly are formidable. But isn't that part of being a fan? I think in a 7 game series the Knicks have a great chance against any team. The only team that I fear is Chicago because of how they match up with the Knicks. Isn't part of being a fan knowing that there is a chance your team might lose? Knick fans certainly aren't frontrunners or bandwagoners. The season and playoffs are a grind but it is a lot more fun when the team is winning and in the conversation.
Exactly I'm not getting my hopes up this time. I will wait for the season to start and then judge the team. Last year I expected ECF+ and was let down big time. I will judge how we win games this year, who we beat and how disciplined we are as a team. If we struggle to beat the lower echelon teams with jr, Felton and Melo chucking a low percentage or if Indiana and Chicago abuse use with their size again. I will further temper my expectations. If not then it will be a good year and maybe I will give them my heart again. Also I will be keeping a close eye on on Woodson and Felton our biggest weak links
gunsnewing wrote:Exactly I'm not getting my hopes up this time. I will wait for the season to start and then judge the team. Last year I expected ECF+ and was let down big time. I will judge how we win games this year, who we beat and how disciplined we are as a team. If we struggle to beat the lower echelon teams with jr, Felton and Melo chucking a low percentage or if Indiana and Chicago abuse use with their size again. I will further temper my expectations. If not then it will be a good year and maybe I will give them my heart again. Also I will be keeping a close eye on on Woodson and Felton our biggest weak links
When you expected ECF plus did you anticipate the Knicks losing Amare, Sheed, and Thomas? Did you expect the team to win with an injured Tyson, Melo, JR, and a totally spent Jason Kidd? Did you expect the Knicks to have so many injuries that they had to sign a guy in February who wasn't in the league and rely on him for the stretch run to win the division? Did you expect the Knicks to have to rely on two rookie free agent minimum signing guys, guys that made under $500,000? Also, I don't remember many positive posts by you or anything written about your expecting ECF. If I am wrong I apologize but I seem to remember a lot of criticism of the organization for not resigning Lin, criticism of Felton, Melo and Woodson.
Every team has injuries. Miami won the whole thing with Wade being a shell of himself. Please don't use injuries as an excuse. There were teams in worse shape than the Knicks who put up a better showing. More so than injuries it was our style of play that got exposed in the playoffs. Lack of ball movement, rebounds and composure
Last year the Knicks were the #2 seed in the East. EVERY TEAM IN THE EAST had a chance to beat us out and they didn't. Now unfortunately we had guys wear down at the wrong time and we lost too many bench players over the course of the season. That left this team weaker than it should be. That also caused the team to fall back into bad habits such as over reliance on ISO. The entire summer was about improving those weaknesses in the roster so that we don't have the same things happen this year. This team has the same abilities as last year but now has even more versatility and talent over last year's team.
So with that fact in mind, why should we fans not be expecting this team to have a chance to vie for a title? Why should the Knicks not be in the mix for a title this year? We have size, speed, shooting, passing, experience, continuity, a star player who can close... Basically this is the best team we've had in over a decade.
What i'm looking for is whether this team will increase it's use of the most efficient parts of the offense and decrease the least efficient. This team is more efficient off PnR and other team oriented plays and so that's what i'd like to see. There's one thing that i'd like to point out. There's nothing wrong with taking someone one on one in the flow of the offense, but that is different than going "ISO" which is when a player wants to get the ball and then hold it before making a move of any kind. This ISO play is very low percentage and the rest of the team is basically just standing around waiting. Unless you're involving everyone with cuts and other movement and the post or ISO is being used to create plays for others. In any event the Knicks need only one thing, SPACING, BALL AND PLAYER MOVEMENT!!! When we get that this team is very potent and a match for any team in the NBA.
gunsnewing wrote:Every team has injuries. Miami won the whole thing with Wade being a shell of himself. Please don't use injuries as an excuse. There were teams in worse shape than the Knicks who put up a better showing. More so than injuries it was our style of play that got exposed in the playoffs. Lack of ball movement, rebounds and composure
The only team I can think of is Chicago. Also, I spoke about the roster. Knicks had three new starters in the line up to start the season. They also had three new rotation players and had to mix and match all year. There was a lot to pull together and overcome. Injuries were a big part of it. Adding Kidd, Brewer and Felton to your starting line up certainly isn't like adding Bosh and LBJ. Also, Wade played in more games then Melo and once the Heat winning streak ended he sat. If Wade had Amare like issues I think that is fair to bring him up. The guy averaged 21, 5 and 5.
CrushAlot wrote:tkf wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I think this is the best team and the best shot they have had in a long time. I think the Knicks can beat any team in a series. I am worried about Chicago but hopefully the Knicks match up with them in the ecf.
I heard the same thing last year.... I was also in Miami two weeks ago, and I heard the heat fans say the say things knicks fans are saying in this thread....
In the end, it is better to be realistic and reasonable when assessing your own team, I know that is hard to do for some fans, especially knick fans.. but if you honestly look around at the rest of the east, I am not sure how we can talk any kind of championship.... I really don't like setting myself up for let downs...
I agree that there is always the opportunity for a letdown and the Heat certainly are formidable. But isn't that part of being a fan? I think in a 7 game series the Knicks have a great chance against any team. The only team that I fear is Chicago because of how they match up with the Knicks. Isn't part of being a fan knowing that there is a chance your team might lose? Knick fans certainly aren't frontrunners or bandwagoners. The season and playoffs are a grind but it is a lot more fun when the team is winning and in the conversation.
you can keep ignoring indy, but they are better than us... and I also think the nets are a team that can easily end up in the ECF.... it seems as if you are short selling those teams, as if the knicks are clearly better and that is far from the truth...
lol 'mr. holier than thou tkf'.. get over yourself bro.
Vegas has the Knicks at 22:1 to win a chip and 13:1 to take the EC
I still don't get these self hating Knicks fans. You have literally the best team you've seen from this franchise since the last Finals team and all you can do is take shots at the team! WTF are you guys ever going to be pleased with if you can't get behind this team? All the nitpicking is unbelievable. Team won 54 games and fails to get past the 2nd rd, but improves the roster over the summer and some fans can't see the positives in that. SMH
nixluva wrote:I still don't get these self hating Knicks fans. You have literally the best team you've seen from this franchise since the last Finals team and all you can do is take shots at the team! WTF are you guys ever going to be pleased with if you can't get behind this team? All the nitpicking is unbelievable. Team won 54 games and fails to get past the 2nd rd, but improves the roster over the summer and some fans can't see the positives in that. SMH
Papabear Says
Nixluva ! don't go there! That's what they want you to do is get upset. They get off on that.If you believe and I believe that the Knicks have a chance to win it all then we carry that with us. They want to steal your joy. Don't let them do that. Those guys are irrelevant and mean nothing. They do not support the team in any way. They pull up stats off of Google to make us think that they are so smart but how many times can you pull up the same old stats and play the same old broken record.how they hate Melo. Beleve me that if the Knicks win it all it will be a sad day in their life even more sadder than now. They won't change so save yourself some grief and just enjoy this coming season. I sure plan to.
nixluva wrote:I still don't get these self hating Knicks fans. You have literally the best team you've seen from this franchise since the last Finals team and all you can do is take shots at the team! WTF are you guys ever going to be pleased with if you can't get behind this team? All the nitpicking is unbelievable. Team won 54 games and fails to get past the 2nd rd, but improves the roster over the summer and some fans can't see the positives in that. SMH
top 8 defense instead of a fool's gold 16th rank.
top 10 assist rank instead of a fool's gold 29th rank.
top 10 rebounding rate instead of a fool's gold 17th rank.
these rankings would give me a sense of optimism. even 2 out of 3 would.
but sadly the knick priorities may well lie elsewhere.
dk7th wrote:nixluva wrote:I still don't get these self hating Knicks fans. You have literally the best team you've seen from this franchise since the last Finals team and all you can do is take shots at the team! WTF are you guys ever going to be pleased with if you can't get behind this team? All the nitpicking is unbelievable. Team won 54 games and fails to get past the 2nd rd, but improves the roster over the summer and some fans can't see the positives in that. SMH
top 8 defense instead of a fool's gold 16th rank.
top 10 assist rank instead of a fool's gold 29th rank.
top 10 rebounding rate instead of a fool's gold 17th rank.
these rankings would give me a sense of optimism. even 2 out of 3 would.
but sadly the knick priorities may well lie elsewhere.
Cool. Are you watching games this year or citing box scores when you post?
nixluva wrote:I still don't get these self hating Knicks fans. You have literally the best team you've seen from this franchise since the last Finals team and all you can do is take shots at the team! WTF are you guys ever going to be pleased with if you can't get behind this team? All the nitpicking is unbelievable. Team won 54 games and fails to get past the 2nd rd, but improves the roster over the summer and some fans can't see the positives in that. SMH
Papabear Says
Remember what I said ignore them. They want you to feel like them doom and gloom. Hopelessness. That's just how they feel.
