IronWillGiroud wrote:misterearl wrote:Double StandardIf it was Jerry Sloan saying the same thing you would be calling it genius motivation. Stop it.
Mike Woodson can say whatever he wants to get results
Imaginary Crusade
Stop it.
Vapid response.
Try bringing more substance nest time.
Mike Woodson has only made the young Shump work for prime minutes. Nothing is guaranteed. To make that a negative issue is a blatant double standard.
Coaches are not baby sitters. Playoff coaches are sometimes irritating, non-lovable, hot-headed, SOB's. Sometimes they run sprints for low turnovers.
The prime directive is simple.
You suck. You sit.
There has been speculation that the organization and the owner were disappointed that he didn't participate more in the summer league. Later reports came out that his knee was sore. I am not sure why Woodson is singling out Shump but it doesn't feel right. I am worried that Woodson might be following a directive from higher up. There didn't seem to be animosity between the two in the past and Woodson seemed to have a genuine fondness for Shump and his young ways. I think Woodson generally has autonomy in his dealing with the team but he doesn't have his gm anymore. Hopefully this isn't setting things up for a trade of Shump. Woodson's comments today about handling the ball in the pick and roll seems to go back to Shump cutting out on the Summer League team.
holfresh wrote:U are not there..U can't judge what a coach is doing with a player from your couch...So far, Woody has been dialing the right numbers, JR has been playing his best ever, Melo has been playing his best ever, Felton is in his best shape ever, Chandler grabbed 20 reb in three consecutive games after Woody tore him a new one... After 200 years in this league, someone finally told Chandler to work on his offense...Shump is shooting at a higher clip after his injury ..He has been working hard in the offseason after he hears there is competition for his job..Why mess with a good thing..Sit back and relax..Larry Brown, with Woodson at his side, rode Billups enough to make him one of the better players(PG)in this league..Billups now loves LB for it, he got it later along with a big contract..Bargs looks like he needs a kick in the pants, he is soft...Relax and watch the show..Leave it to the guys who knows the game..They are the pros..We are fans..
Exhibit A:
Anyway this is again something a really good coach would not have said about Shumpert. Why doesn't he come down as hard on Chandler ALL THE TIME? Why is it that Chandler has to have three 20 rebound games and think that he accomplished something? WHY is he guaranteeing Felton a spot in the starting 5? As far as I am concerned, Melo is the only player we have whose spot in the starting 5 is guaranteed.
The reason why he comes down harder on Shumpert is because he knows that if he does that to his veterans they'll stop listening to him and soon he'll be out of a job. So he wants Shumpert to be so versatile that he can cover his veteran players' deficiencies.
misterearl wrote:IronWillGiroud wrote:misterearl wrote:Double StandardIf it was Jerry Sloan saying the same thing you would be calling it genius motivation. Stop it.
Mike Woodson can say whatever he wants to get results
Imaginary Crusade
Stop it.
Vapid response.
Try bringing more substance nest time.
Mike Woodson has only made the young Shump work for prime minutes. Nothing is guaranteed. To make that a negative issue is a blatant double standard.
Coaches are not baby sitters. Playoff coaches are sometimes irritating, non-lovable, hot-headed, SOB's. Sometimes they run sprints for low turnovers.
The prime directive is simple.
You suck. You sit.
Shumpert looks like the 2nd best player on the team. Hes got the 2nd most talent. If he scked so bad on D where was woody after game 1s 7-7? This guys 1st team all rookie D. Lets wait until something bad happens to lay down some law through the media. I think keep a positive attitude and reinforce anything in private. Beno Udirih was very poor in his action in game 2--where was Woddy then? I think now is a time for positive reinforcement--its a good team Shumps a nice piece of it=lets keep our cool and get the thing going.
BRIGGS wrote:Shumpert has a chance to be a borderline all star in the making. He plays hard its his 3 rd year==give him some respect and keep any critiscm in house if there is a need. He should be the starting 2G and given more respect that he has from Woddy. I dont see Spoelestra or the Indiana coach bashing their players in the media. Why would he be doing this?
Agreed. Very odd. I know he's pro JR but still man, pipe down and support ALL your players, esp. this young dude who's made significant progress since first putting on a Knick uniform up to now.
some are really micro-analyzing and over-reacting for anything ... you should go seek the advices of some astrologist on how to manage the Knicks.. lol
there is nothing wrong in what Woodson has said about Shump
BRIGGS wrote:Shumpert has a chance to be a borderline all star in the making. He plays hard its his 3 rd year==give him some respect and keep any critiscm in house if there is a need. He should be the starting 2G and given more respect that he has from Woddy. I dont see Spoelestra or the Indiana coach bashing their players in the media. Why would he be doing this?
Shumpert knows what's going on at MSG, he's smart enough to see thru the big picture in why he's the new whipping boy.
They want to break him, but he won't be broken, he will likely be traded for whatever reason.
Shump wants to play to win, but he doesn't want any part of the politics that the owner down to the GM and coach has to play. He can get a job elsewhere.
Kids are spoiled rotten these days, with their social media, questionable fashion sense, rapping ventures, etc. What Woody is doing is nothing a loving father wouldn't do. T2 has come out and said that his father was so hard on him it strained their relationship. Woody isn't out to get Shump man, come on that's so fucking retarded. All these conspiracy theories about how Dolan and Woody are devising a plan because he didn't play IN THE SUMMER LEAGUE....and dun dun dun..he's PISSED....LMFAOOO.
His coach sees the potential in him, and unlike most kids these days who are expected to have things handed to them, he's pushing him. Obviously he's not going to do that to veterans, who are who they are. But Iman can be molded.
Nothing he has said about him is WRONG. He DOES overplay on defense. He got LIT UP in the last game. It's not because he's bad on defense, it's because he plays it a certain way sometimes that it burns him.
Watch him on offense. All the guards, even Carmelo, can run a pick and roll effectively. Iman still can't do that. He's doing more and more one on one iso's this pre-season. When he's the only guard on the floor, he needs to learn how to be effective with the ball. Right now, he is the most effective when the plays are helter skelter, meaning off steals, fast breaks, broken plays..but when things are half court and organized, he falls off unless his shooting stroke is on. There's a reason why he shoots at a higher clip from 3 than mid-range and at the rim.
Iman is a young player who the Knicks drafted with lots of potential, but lets not make him out to be some kind of messiah, who can do no wrong.
Go back a few years..when there were trade rumors of KG for Channing Frye...a lot of Knicks fans said no lol. Knicks fans love to ride the dicks of young players and scrubs so hard they don't give the due to the solid veterans that actually gave this franchise success. Shitting on Melo night and day, saying Tyson didn't deserve his DPOY, pissing on Houston throughout his days here, booing Ewing, etc..but God forbid somebody says something critical of a 3rd year player.
when you look at it, shump is really the only guy on this team (out of the good younger players) that woodson feels he can probably mold and coach up since he's been coaching shump since a rookie. all the other guys are who they are, woodson probably feels tough love is best for this kid. i'm not a huge woodson fan but i have no problem with this.
Gsus wrote:Kids are spoiled rotten these days, with their social media, questionable fashion sense, rapping ventures, etc. What Woody is doing is nothing a loving father wouldn't do. T2 has come out and said that his father was so hard on him it strained their relationship. Woody isn't out to get Shump man, come on that's so fucking retarded. All these conspiracy theories about how Dolan and Woody are devising a plan because he didn't play IN THE SUMMER LEAGUE....and dun dun dun..he's PISSED....LMFAOOO.His coach sees the potential in him, and unlike most kids these days who are expected to have things handed to them, he's pushing him. Obviously he's not going to do that to veterans, who are who they are. But Iman can be molded.
Nothing he has said about him is WRONG. He DOES overplay on defense. He got LIT UP in the last game. It's not because he's bad on defense, it's because he plays it a certain way sometimes that it burns him.
Watch him on offense. All the guards, even Carmelo, can run a pick and roll effectively. Iman still can't do that. He's doing more and more one on one iso's this pre-season. When he's the only guard on the floor, he needs to learn how to be effective with the ball. Right now, he is the most effective when the plays are helter skelter, meaning off steals, fast breaks, broken plays..but when things are half court and organized, he falls off unless his shooting stroke is on. There's a reason why he shoots at a higher clip from 3 than mid-range and at the rim.
Iman is a young player who the Knicks drafted with lots of potential, but lets not make him out to be some kind of messiah, who can do no wrong.
Go back a few years..when there were trade rumors of KG for Channing Frye...a lot of Knicks fans said no lol. Knicks fans love to ride the dicks of young players and scrubs so hard they don't give the due to the solid veterans that actually gave this franchise success. Shitting on Melo night and day, saying Tyson didn't deserve his DPOY, pissing on Houston throughout his days here, booing Ewing, etc..but God forbid somebody says something critical of a 3rd year player.
We have a very good team--we need positive reinforcement right now. I think you do that in NY in house unless its a serious situation. Why create problems when there are none? The last game was an abomination--it wasnt coached or played well--no one cared. We could easily start with the coach on the last game but again lets drop it--not necessary. Now he fed the fueled to the media and we dont need that right now. Shumpert was shooting 75% through games 1-2 and played good D created many TO's if Woody had something to say--say it there. I dont recall any fans talking negatively about Houston other than his outrageously overpaid contract that came back to hurt us badly and PE had a love hate veteran relationship w fans.. Shumpert is the type of player who can develop into a really nice player--hes close. Lets show some decorum and keep this stuff in house instead of dumping it all over ESPN Steven Smith and 7 Knick beat writers. It wasnt the most intelligent move.
What did woody say-? Im looking for quotes
JVG used to do this all the time. If Woody is just trying to motivate him to be better, I have no problem with it what so ever- Iman seems to play better with a chip on his shoulder, so I trust Woody to know how to use different approaches to get the most out of different players (e.g. he uses encouragement on the more fragile Bargs).
However if its just some Dolan mandated BS to 'justify' trading him then it's lame.
I don't mind it.
Some players you have to coddle and tread lightly. Some you have to yell and criticize.
Shumpert's not one of those dudes, he has thick skin it seems. Don't think he'll ball up into the fetal position anytime soon.
ChuckBuck wrote:I don't mind it.Some players you have to coddle and tread lightly. Some you have to yell and criticize.
Shumpert's not one of those dudes, he has thick skin it seems. Don't think he'll ball up into the fetal position anytime soon.
I agree with that. One-size-fits-all management usually doesn't work
callmened wrote:What did woody say-? Im looking for quotes
"Defensively, he's got to start being more solid and not so overaggressive that he gets beat," the coach said Monday.
"Iman plays hard. That, to me, is the thing that's kept him on the floor," Woodson said. "[But] he's just got to figure out, we've got to help him figure out, [how] his game that coincides with what we want to do.
"He's got to be able to play pick-and-roll offense [and] he's got to be able to run the team with the ball in his hands, because our [point guards, shooting guards and small forwards] handle the basketball."
Really? He's talking like Iman is not playing smart. While I don't disagree in certain aspects, there's enough blame on that "not playing smart, but hard" to go around. Which one of our veterans plays hard and smart?
Cartman718 wrote:
Anyway this is again something a really good coach would not have said about Shumpert. Why doesn't he come down as hard on Chandler ALL THE TIME? Why is it that Chandler has to have three 20 rebound games and think that he accomplished something? WHY is he guaranteeing Felton a spot in the starting 5? As far as I am concerned, Melo is the only player we have whose spot in the starting 5 is guaranteed.The reason why he comes down harder on Shumpert is because he knows that if he does that to his veterans they'll stop listening to him and soon he'll be out of a job. So he wants Shumpert to be so versatile that he can cover his veteran players' deficiencies.
Pretty much agree with everything you said there
Cartman718 wrote:callmened wrote:What did woody say-? Im looking for quotes
"Defensively, he's got to start being more solid and not so overaggressive that he gets beat," the coach said Monday.
"Iman plays hard. That, to me, is the thing that's kept him on the floor," Woodson said. "[But] he's just got to figure out, we've got to help him figure out, [how] his game that coincides with what we want to do.
"He's got to be able to play pick-and-roll offense [and] he's got to be able to run the team with the ball in his hands, because our [point guards, shooting guards and small forwards] handle the basketball."
Really? He's talking like Iman is not playing smart. While I don't disagree in certain aspects, there's enough blame on that "not playing smart, but hard" to go around. Which one of our veterans plays hard and smart?
Dem is fighing words!!!!!
Shump got the hair, the shoes and likes to be noticed!!!! Time to let the game do the talking.
I think Shump will get the start and will have every opportunity to keep JR on the bench if he plays well. He has his health, full summer to work on his game and good time under his belt to build on.
No hair, no bright shoes will talk as loud as his game does. Time to stop acting like a rookie!
Im rooting for him to succeed!!!! Dude has nice upside!
Praise The Lord it's just a motivational tactic!
Let's roll:
Felton
Shumpert
Melo
Bargnani
Tyson
gunsnewing wrote:Praise The Lord it's just a motivational tactic!
Let's roll:
Felton
Shumpert
Melo
Bargnani
Tyson
Yeah, a major part of coaching is finding what buttons to push with each player. I'm sure Phil Jackson treated Metta World Peace differently than he did Andrew Bynum. This organization is dysfunctional enough as it is. You'll go crazy if you try to dig for deeper meaning every time a new quote gets thrown out.
This could either be a motivational tactic or somewhat bush-league. If this is what Woodson has learned to help push Shumpert to Higher level, and it works. Great. However; if this is just putting him down because he is simply saying what is on his mind, or he needs to vent, then he needs to knock it off. 1) You wont find a way to lose a player faster or even an entire team, then by doing that. 2) You strain your relationship. 3) It is not appropriate. At least do this with all of the players. Singling out one player is wrong. Every player, including Melo, has plenty of weaknesses.
Cartman718 wrote:callmened wrote:What did woody say-? Im looking for quotes
"Defensively, he's got to start being more solid and not so overaggressive that he gets beat," the coach said Monday.
"Iman plays hard. That, to me, is the thing that's kept him on the floor," Woodson said. "[But] he's just got to figure out, we've got to help him figure out, [how] his game that coincides with what we want to do.
"He's got to be able to play pick-and-roll offense [and] he's got to be able to run the team with the ball in his hands, because our [point guards, shooting guards and small forwards] handle the basketball."
Really? He's talking like Iman is not playing smart. While I don't disagree in certain aspects, there's enough blame on that "not playing smart, but hard" to go around. Which one of our veterans plays hard and smart?
I dont see the big deal at all. Hes right
