GustavBahler wrote:Diogu might not put up the same numbers as Faried, but I think he can bring the same skill set at a discount. Certainly not for Shump. No one on this team is untouchable IMO. If we are going to trade Shump it has to be a deal that will take us to the next level, don't believe this trade would do it.
I'm still trying to figure out what kind of player fans like you would expect for Shump. Take us to the next level?
Seriously what kind of deal would you trade Shump for?
EnySpree wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Diogu might not put up the same numbers as Faried, but I think he can bring the same skill set at a discount. Certainly not for Shump. No one on this team is untouchable IMO. If we are going to trade Shump it has to be a deal that will take us to the next level, don't believe this trade would do it.
I'm still trying to figure out what kind of player fans like you would expect for Shump. Take us to the next level?
Seriously what kind of deal would you trade Shump for?
Haven't thought about a specific player or package because I don't want Shump traded at this time. Shump is one of the best on the ball defenders in this league, he's shooting over 40 percent from 3 this preseason, his mid range jumper looks better, he's also one of the most athletic players in this league. You don't give up on a player with those qualities unless its a chance to measurably improve the team. I've heard some names floated like Dudley among others. I believe we can do better, much better for Shump, if it came to that.
We talk about getting Melo another all star to play along side of him and put us over the top. A package for that type of player is about all that I would be interested in seeing us trade Shump for at this time. I get the feeling that Shump is going to have a breakout season if he can stay healthy.
Shump will be traded- everyone get used to the idea. Most likely Dolan will wait until you're starting to feel pretty good about the team, and then decide to remind us all why we loathe him as an owner.
It would be odd trading him for Faried, as didn't we draft Shump over him a couple of years ago? Whenever I looked at Denver boxscores, it always seemed like Faried had 20+ pts and over 10 rebounds, I was surprised to see he averages only about 10pts.
everyone here knows I wanted the Knicks to draft Faried over Shump. I love Faried's game. He is a baller and is tenacious...
however, the Knicks are paying so many bigs that Knicks need guys like Shump. Unless they have a plan for legitimately replacing Shump, he's got to stay
SupremeCommander wrote:everyone here knows I wanted the Knicks to draft Faried over Shump. I love Faried's game. He is a baller and is tenacious...however, the Knicks are paying so many bigs that Knicks need guys like Shump. Unless they have a plan for legitimately replacing Shump, he's got to stay
Likely they see Tim Hardaway Jr and Murray as being able to replace him- plus Prigs, Felton and Beno can play some 2. Of course Dolan doesn't care that we lose one of our best defenders, because it's personal. If JR is really moving back into the starting lineup (Felton, JR, Melo, Bargs and Tyson is not a good mix, in my opinion), we're just looking at a backup SG.
I haven't watched Faried much, but always thought he was meant to be a very good player- that's why I was surprised when people said he is awful offensively and defensively.
I'd love to have a young, tenacious, rebounding front court player, but not at the price of Shump.
smackeddog wrote:Shump will be traded- everyone get used to the idea. Most likely Dolan will wait until you're starting to feel pretty good about the team, and then decide to remind us all why we loathe him as an owner.It would be odd trading him for Faried, as didn't we draft Shump over him a couple of years ago? Whenever I looked at Denver boxscores, it always seemed like Faried had 20+ pts and over 10 rebounds, I was surprised to see he averages only about 10pts.
Agreed. Shumpert may very we'll be traded
On Faried: Tyson Chandler puts up 20 & 10 occasionally ON DUNKS. Same with Faried. He is super athletic and quick above the rim. Not an offensive threat by any stretch of the imagination.
We need Shump's perimeter defense
If this preseason thought us anything we need him more than ever
gunsnewing wrote:smackeddog wrote:Shump will be traded- everyone get used to the idea. Most likely Dolan will wait until you're starting to feel pretty good about the team, and then decide to remind us all why we loathe him as an owner.It would be odd trading him for Faried, as didn't we draft Shump over him a couple of years ago? Whenever I looked at Denver boxscores, it always seemed like Faried had 20+ pts and over 10 rebounds, I was surprised to see he averages only about 10pts.
Agreed. Shumpert may very we'll be traded
On Faried: Tyson Chandler puts up 20 & 10 occasionally ON DUNKS. Same with Faried. He is super athletic and quick above the rim. Not an offensive threat by any stretch of the imagination.
We need Shump's perimeter defense
If this preseason thought us anything we need him more than ever
But the most important thing about Faried is: is he loyal? Would he do anything Dolan asked him to do? That's the criteria this organisation uses when evaluation players, coaches and GMs.
On a more serious note, could Faried play alongside Tyson, or would we run into the same problems as the K-Mart/Tyson front line, in that as neither of them has much of an offensive game, it doesn't really seem to work.
Worse. Faried makes Kmart look like Moses Malone. Tyson Faried for court is overkill. Definitely more contested shots for Melo
They have a surplus of bigs - Gallo, Hickson, Koufos, Mozgov, Wil Chandler, McGee, Arthur - and no real 2 so I kinda get it from their standpoint. Fournier is still to young, Nate will get destroyed by bigger 2s and Randy Foye is simply not good enough.
TKF - They drafted Erick Green, so there is the other PG (also Nate and Andre Miller are there and are pretty good).
I hope Shump isn't involved in any trade, but if he is shipped to Denver Mills better be on the winning end of it when dealing w/ their new GM (though I highly doubt).
sealy wrote:They have a surplus of bigs - Gallo, Hickson, Koufos, Mozgov, Wil Chandler, McGee, Arthur - and no real 2 so I kinda get it from their standpoint. Fournier is still to young, Nate will get destroyed by bigger 2s and Randy Foye is simply not good enough.TKF - They drafted Erick Green, so there is the other PG (also Nate and Andre Miller are there and are pretty good).
I hope Shump isn't involved in any trade, but if he is shipped to Denver Mills better be on the winning end of it when dealing w/ their new GM (though I highly doubt).
I think they traded Koufos to Memphis. At the time it didn't make sense as they already had Faried and had resigned JJ Hickson- why not keep Koufus and let Mosgov walk (not really any room for another PF in Arthur). But then why wait until now to check Faried's trade value? I just don't get their thinking.
What I don't get- if they want to trade Faried because of his lack of defense, why replace him with JJ Hickson?!
EnySpree wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Diogu might not put up the same numbers as Faried, but I think he can bring the same skill set at a discount. Certainly not for Shump. No one on this team is untouchable IMO. If we are going to trade Shump it has to be a deal that will take us to the next level, don't believe this trade would do it.
I'm still trying to figure out what kind of player fans like you would expect for Shump. Take us to the next level?
Seriously what kind of deal would you trade Shump for?
I'm not against trading Shump. I just need to know that there's is someone on the roster capable of doing decent job of defending point and shooting guards. If Murry grows into that role and we get a fair offer for Shump I'll listen. That's asking a lot tho.
smackeddog wrote:sealy wrote:They have a surplus of bigs - Gallo, Hickson, Koufos, Mozgov, Wil Chandler, McGee, Arthur - and no real 2 so I kinda get it from their standpoint. Fournier is still to young, Nate will get destroyed by bigger 2s and Randy Foye is simply not good enough.TKF - They drafted Erick Green, so there is the other PG (also Nate and Andre Miller are there and are pretty good).
I hope Shump isn't involved in any trade, but if he is shipped to Denver Mills better be on the winning end of it when dealing w/ their new GM (though I highly doubt).
I think they traded Koufos to Memphis. At the time it didn't make sense as they already had Faried and had resigned JJ Hickson- why not keep Koufus and let Mosgov walk (not really any room for another PF in Arthur). But then why wait until now to check Faried's trade value? I just don't get their thinking.
What I don't get- if they want to trade Faried because of his lack of defense, why replace him with JJ Hickson?!
The Koufos for Arthur trade didn't make a lot of sense to me. He was their best center. I know they want to develop Javele but the move didn't make sense. Not sure what they are doing slowing things up and trying to have McGee become a post presence. The Nuggets won 58 last year and were almost unbeatable at home running and pushing the pace. It seems like Shaw wants them to be the new Pacers.
CrushAlot wrote:smackeddog wrote:sealy wrote:They have a surplus of bigs - Gallo, Hickson, Koufos, Mozgov, Wil Chandler, McGee, Arthur - and no real 2 so I kinda get it from their standpoint. Fournier is still to young, Nate will get destroyed by bigger 2s and Randy Foye is simply not good enough.TKF - They drafted Erick Green, so there is the other PG (also Nate and Andre Miller are there and are pretty good).
I hope Shump isn't involved in any trade, but if he is shipped to Denver Mills better be on the winning end of it when dealing w/ their new GM (though I highly doubt).
I think they traded Koufos to Memphis. At the time it didn't make sense as they already had Faried and had resigned JJ Hickson- why not keep Koufus and let Mosgov walk (not really any room for another PF in Arthur). But then why wait until now to check Faried's trade value? I just don't get their thinking.
What I don't get- if they want to trade Faried because of his lack of defense, why replace him with JJ Hickson?!
The Koufos for Arthur trade didn't make a lot of sense to me. He was their best center. I know they want to develop Javele but the move didn't make sense. Not sure what they are doing slowing things up and trying to have McGee become a post presence. The Nuggets won 58 last year and were almost unbeatable at home running and pushing the pace. It seems like Shaw wants them to be the new Pacers.
The trades make plenty of sense when you look at the money they paid McGee. Denver is in different situation from us. They can't afford to keep doling out $10 million annually for a guy on the bench.
if k faried is on the block you gotta be STUPID not to trade for him,
give them shump any as many draft picks as they want plus timmy jr,
k faried is the FUTURE, SON
this guy is a filthy man: dropped 11/9 with steal and block in second year to go along with crazy youtube videos,
BigDaddyG wrote:CrushAlot wrote:smackeddog wrote:sealy wrote:They have a surplus of bigs - Gallo, Hickson, Koufos, Mozgov, Wil Chandler, McGee, Arthur - and no real 2 so I kinda get it from their standpoint. Fournier is still to young, Nate will get destroyed by bigger 2s and Randy Foye is simply not good enough.TKF - They drafted Erick Green, so there is the other PG (also Nate and Andre Miller are there and are pretty good).
I hope Shump isn't involved in any trade, but if he is shipped to Denver Mills better be on the winning end of it when dealing w/ their new GM (though I highly doubt).
I think they traded Koufos to Memphis. At the time it didn't make sense as they already had Faried and had resigned JJ Hickson- why not keep Koufus and let Mosgov walk (not really any room for another PF in Arthur). But then why wait until now to check Faried's trade value? I just don't get their thinking.
What I don't get- if they want to trade Faried because of his lack of defense, why replace him with JJ Hickson?!
The Koufos for Arthur trade didn't make a lot of sense to me. He was their best center. I know they want to develop Javele but the move didn't make sense. Not sure what they are doing slowing things up and trying to have McGee become a post presence. The Nuggets won 58 last year and were almost unbeatable at home running and pushing the pace. It seems like Shaw wants them to be the new Pacers.
The trades make plenty of sense when you look at the money they paid McGee. Denver is in different situation from us. They can't afford to keep doling out $10 million annually for a guy on the bench.
But it doesn't even make sense financially! Koufus gets $3mil per year. Arthur also makes $3 mil, plus they ended up giving Mosgov $4mil per year, despite him being a worse player than Koufos. So they've subtracted $3mil and added $7mil. Then they added Hickson for $5mil, and look like they're about to get rid of Faried (the better player) who only makes $1.5mil.
if we add any PF he's gott be able to stretch the floor. Faried is a horse but he's not that player. Otherwise Melo ends up shooting tons of jumpers because its too easy for defenses to pack the middle.. neither Chandler or Faried can stretch a D. Good player, bad fit next to Melo.
fishmike wrote:if we add any PF he's gott be able to stretch the floor. Faried is a horse but he's not that player. Otherwise Melo ends up shooting tons of jumpers because its too easy for defenses to pack the middle.. neither Chandler or Faried can stretch a D. Good player, bad fit next to Melo.
Yeah, my brain agrees with you- we cant really have another offensively challenge front court player next to Tyson. But I miss having rugged PF's who rebound with passion- I hate seeing us get outrebounded game after game.
