Knicks · Bargs starting isnt woking wont work and we will LOSE games if it continues (page 1)

StarksEwing1 wrote:Toronto must be laughing at us. They were basically begging teams to take him for nothing and we gave them 3 picks including a 1st

I think Bargs is OK its the SL that has no chemistry

BRIGGS wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Toronto must be laughing at us. They were basically begging teams to take him for nothing and we gave them 3 picks including a 1st

I think Bargs is OK its the SL that has no chemistry

loweyecue wrote:Well, our owner seems to think we are built to win a championship.

start Felton, Shump, Metta, Melo, and Chandler. Shump can guard the better perimeter player, and Metta can take the more physical forward. you stash Melo on whoever the worst of the 3 is, and get the offense going with the PnR and with Melo.

Bargnani is best fit to be a backup C on this team. let the chemistry develop over time with him and Melo and see what happens, but right now, its silly starting him. couldn't agree more.

BRIGGS wrote:We all said it after the pre season--Bargani 18 minutes off the bench--Artest to PF--do we need L's to understand it???

100% right - Came out flat and weak. Artest needs to start.

StarksEwing1 wrote:Toronto must be laughing at us. They were basically begging teams to take him for nothing and we gave them 3 picks including a 1st

yep

Neither melo or bargnani are efficient enough to hit their first couple of shots regularly....they both need volume to get going.

I thought bargs was supposed to create space...all I see is turnovers.

knickscity wrote:You cant have two guys who need shots to get going in the same lineup.

Neither melo or bargnani are efficient enough to hit their first couple of shots regularly....they both need volume to get going.

I thought bargs was supposed to create space...all I see is turnovers.

You know you still have to run a legit NBA offense. You can't just throw guys together without a plan. You need to still have ball and player movement and they have to be in sync. Felton is not a very good floor general and so if you start Bargs then you better run sets that will help Felton where he is weak. Basically you want to run a set like "Horns" where you can make things simple for Felton and the bigs don't bang into each other not knowing where to be.

I don't know what new sets Woody has this team trying to run but they're very poorly executed. The Knicks very rarely get a great look for Melo out of their sets. I don't know if it's Melo or Woody or what, but too often Melo ends up with a low % shot. That's poor coaching IMO. As a coach you have to make it clear to Melo what shots you want him taking and make it possible with the sets you run. None of our plays seem to lead to great shots for Melo. He's having to work too hard for every single shot, which is not smart BB.

but once again, the problem ISNT offense, its defense...we simply give up way too many easy points. thats why im in favor of starting a defensive team first

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:You cant have two guys who need shots to get going in the same lineup.

Neither melo or bargnani are efficient enough to hit their first couple of shots regularly....they both need volume to get going.

I thought bargs was supposed to create space...all I see is turnovers.

You know you still have to run a legit NBA offense. You can't just throw guys together without a plan. You need to still have ball and player movement and they have to be in sync. Felton is not a very good floor general and so if you start Bargs then you better run sets that will help Felton where he is weak. Basically you want to run a set like "Horns" where you can make things simple for Felton and the bigs don't bang into each other not knowing where to be.

I don't know what new sets Woody has this team trying to run but they're very poorly executed. The Knicks very rarely get a great look for Melo out of their sets. I don't know if it's Melo or Woody or what, but too often Melo ends up with a low % shot. That's poor coaching IMO. As a coach you have to make it clear to Melo what shots you want him taking and make it possible with the sets you run. None of our plays seem to lead to great shots for Melo. He's having to work too hard for every single shot, which is not smart BB.

It aint the system or the sets.

callmened wrote:thats the thing though, they DO run sets like horns and scissors...but in the crunch time, woody just wants a melo iso...i thought it was unfair to melo to ask him to bail him out

but once again, the problem ISNT offense, its defense...we simply give up way too many easy points. thats why im in favor of starting a defensive team first

Theres the problem....bad offense leads to easy baskets on defense. If your starting lineup, or entire team is made up of mostly jump shooters, and average to below average defenders, every team in the NBA will get easy baskets against us. We either have average 3 pt shooters, or players that needs to get directly under the rim to score. Thats why floor spacing is an issue.

The only way to fix this is to add some structure to the offense, especially during crunch time. I say if Woodson is going to feature Melo, then make him a point forward. Run high pick and roles. The problem is this will make Melo an average offensive player, with reduced stats and less money on his next contract. So basically we are stuck treading water (watching Melo and JR take all the attempts) until we either get another star or trade somebody. You see what happens when you have a healthy Stat, who's a system guy. It gets the team involved and we win games.

It's the same problem we've had before we got Amari....And when we got Melo, we continued to ignore the same issues. Now that another summer passed, we still have the same issues. I don't care how much sugar they try to put on it. Don't put a bandaid over it, fix the holes.

Need defensive players with lateral quickness.
Need a backup center
Need a PG
Need players that can get to the rim and score, without dribbling the shot clock out just to shoot fadeaway jumpers.

When we had Dantoni, we needed a defensive assistant coach.
With Woodson, we need an offensive assistant coach.
We need a coach thats not affraid to challenge their best players, or use them as an example when they F up during the game.

Same problems equals Same results!

anthony's best one on one move is when he spins down to the right baseline from the right mid-post and releases a shot from 8-12 feet. we should be seeing this play called for him five times a game.

the first time he jacks up a spooge three with 20 seconds left on the clock woodson needs to bench him. similarly when he shoots over three converging defenders he should be benched. he needs to start being punished for impulsivity and stupidity.

Jmpasq wrote:Some of you put up good suggestions for the offense the problem is no matter what when the game is on the line Melo wil revert to Melo and he will be chucking 25 footers at the basket.

we didn't lose last night because Melo is inefficient during crunch time. We lost because we let the other team double us up in the first quarter.

franco12 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Some of you put up good suggestions for the offense the problem is no matter what when the game is on the line Melo wil revert to Melo and he will be chucking 25 footers at the basket.

we didn't lose last night because Melo is inefficient during crunch time. We lost because we let the other team double us up in the first quarter.

We took on way too much salary, cap space/flexability, solid role players, draft picks, and that is why we are unable to build around Melo with the quality players needed

Look at what Harden and CP3 were acquired for, they didn't take on 40-60m in salaries and poor contracts that hinders their ability to still build a team around them with cap space alone
Instead we gave up the cap space, multiple draft picks, and players that had much higher value than what they were traded for

We overpayed for a want and not a need, that is why we have had to continue to overpay in trades for flawed players and vet min like contractsh

To spit with Melo, we need many quality players
We need a SF/PF with guard skills, ability to score inside and out, good speed snd athletisicm rebound, and the ability to defend 2-3 positions

A PG that can demand the trust and respect of Melo that can be a lockdown defender, play on and off the ball, hit a wide open 3pter, and penetrate and facilitate at a high efficient rate
Someone like CP3, at least a Jrue Holiday

A young Shawn Marion would be ideal, had we kept Wilson Chandler or Gallo, we would still have a chance to build a team with the right players to implement a philosophy that would work
Others like Battum, Parsons

2 PF/C, one that can play great team DEF with supreme mobility, athleticism, length, can score 1v1 down low and hit a 17 footer effectively

Another stretch 4/5 that can also defend and rebound at a efficient rate...

However all these type of players are rare skill sets that cost more than the average player salary
With JR, Iman, and Hardaway JR, we have 3 players that play the same position
We likely would need to trade one of these players for a SF/PF or a upgrade at PG

On top of all this we still have to wait till 2015 to retool, without overpaying for talent, especially for Melo
But getting some of the pieces now would allow us to fill in the holes in order to build a team, with the players needed to build a philosophy that would actually work vs playoff caliber teams
As of right now, we are a 3pt shooting team with many holes as a team

Jmpasq wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:Some of you put up good suggestions for the offense the problem is no matter what when the game is on the line Melo wil revert to Melo and he will be chucking 25 footers at the basket.

we didn't lose last night because Melo is inefficient during crunch time. We lost because we let the other team double us up in the first quarter.

No we lost the Bulls game because Melo was inefficient during crunch time

THIS