Knicks · Every Other Thread Takes A Back Seat... or A Knee... To The Truth (page 1)

Continuity Is The Word (number three in a funky series)

The Spurs’ coach has for years been affectionately known as Pop. In Dolan’s Garden, coaches and assorted executives, though handsomely paid, have been treated like children.

Since Pop, or Gregg Popovich, took a seat on the Spurs’ bench in 1996, the Knicks have had eight head coaches, including Herb Williams, who handled the team for one game in 2004 and for 43 as an interim coach in 2005.

Since the management duo of Popovich — who also holds the title of team president — and R. C. Buford, the general manager, united in San Antonio, the Knicks have had six men in charge of their basketball operation. Three have called the personnel shots in the last three-plus seasons. Donnie Walsh was downgraded from president to long-distance adviser after digging the team out of a salary-cap hole the size of the Grand Canyon.

The latest change — Steve Mills in as president and Glen Grunwald out as general manager — bizarrely occurred on the eve of training camp, months after the Knicks won those 54 games and their first playoff series since 2000.

Under pressure from an impatient public — but also from Dolan’s dictums and ever-rising ticket prices — the Knicks invariably dwell more on the inadequacies of a promising talent, like Iman Shumpert.

Walsh made the call on signing Amar’e Stoudemire and his fragile knees before jettisoning David Lee, but it can be argued that the franchise instability and style-over-substance ethos made that risky and now-ruinous move inevitable.

It is well known around the league that Popovich demands a certain kind of player, or at least players with the ability to assimilate into his team-first system. At the Garden, Dolan has welcomed too many heralded saviors turned saboteurs.

San Antonio’s owner, Peter Holt, is seldom talked about. In New York, Dolan is a continuing topic of bewildering and derogatory conversation. And that is not good, no matter the context.

- Harvey Araton, NYTimes journalist

Is it true that Anything can be fixed?

Style over substance gives the dance team glow sticks, and adds crazy special effects, for player introductions.

Then, when the players underperform, puts the dancers on probation.

Saw the article but didn't finish it..Life gets a little easier when D. Robinson and Tim Duncan is your number 1 pick...

The rest of the story

holfresh wrote:Saw the article but didn't finish it..Life gets a little easier when D. Robinson and Tim Duncan is your number 1 pick...

Life gets a little easier when scouting reports are questioning a little known point guard from (cough) France, and you take a calculated risk on him with the 28th pick.

Manu Ginobili was the 57th pick in the 1999 draft

misterearl wrote:Walsh made the call on signing Amar’e Stoudemire and his fragile knees before jettisoning David Lee, but it can be argued that the franchise instability and style-over-substance ethos made that risky and now-ruinous move inevitable.

Never blamed Walsh for this. The signing made sent an important message to the fan base. I do blame Walsh and for playing STAT so many minutes when everyone said his minutes needed to be monitored. I also blame them for rushing him back to play in a meaningless playoff game.

Lord of the Rings

BigDaddyG - when Amare exclaimed, "the Knicks are back!", was that message intended for the fan base, or just one more potential big ticket-type NBA free agent?

What was the important message?

misterearl wrote:Lord of the Rings

BigDaddyG - when Amare exclaimed, "the Knicks are back!", was that message intended for the fan base, or just one more potential big ticket-type NBA free agent?

What was the important message?

Both. I think most of us were still holding out hope that Melo and Paul would follow. The Phoenix training staff said STAT had three years before the wheels started to come off. Everyone knew that, except for the Knicks management and coach staff. We made a huge investment in a guy that we knew needed to monitored closely and played him the most minutes in his career. It' not my money, but it doesn't seem like the best way to protect an investment.

misterearl wrote:Lord of the Rings

BigDaddyG - when Amare exclaimed, "the Knicks are back!", was that message intended for the fan base, or just one more potential big ticket-type NBA free agent?

What was the important message?

The important message was that "starphucking is back"

Bonn1997 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Lord of the Rings

BigDaddyG - when Amare exclaimed, "the Knicks are back!", was that message intended for the fan base, or just one more potential big ticket-type NBA free agent?

What was the important message?

The important message was that "starphucking is back"

Never left. The only thing that changed was the cap space

The San Antonio spurs are a well run organization..... at the Same time they are extremely lucky... finding Parker and manu so late the the draft, Tim duncan is one of the greatest big men to ever play. Even Pop becoming a good coach in the nba is a God send. He was unknown before becoming spurs coach. How rare is it to have a guy with the same team that long as a coach? Jerry Sloan?

Yeah so it's fun to poke at the Knicks. Yes we are a horribly run franchise. I think that is well documented. But can we enjoy a little fun time? We are a winning team again. Why can't we focus on that for now?

Are We Not Men?

EnySpree - of course we can enjoy a winning team. Given the context and constant scrutiny, imagine how mentally tough our coaches and players must be in the biggest media market.

rather than parroting the bitterness of the media, and self-officious "experts", the context may allow supporters of Knicks players and coaches to celebrate their victories with a skootch more appreciation.

Every trade deadline every Knicks player is bait.

Only the strong win in The Garden

Ron World Peace knew the deal from his days at St Johns. Carmelo understood from his days at Syracuse. Small town Raymond Felton never wanted to leave NY for Denver because he relished the challenge and the spotlight. Tim Hardaway Jr has that big city mojo because his daddy taught him well.

Andrea Bargnani will be fun to watch grow, or shrink, under the harsh lights of Broadway.

Peter Holt gets the credit for building the culture and sticking with it. IT started with Larry Brown of all people!!!!

All great franchises get its assistants and player development personnel poached to run other teams. Credit the owner for keeping a system going an not panicking when they had a bad season or playoff disappointment.

To a lessor extend, Indy has done a similar thing. While it has not yielded a championship they seem to recover form its mistakes. They got hoodwinked by Isiah but figured a way to come back. Financially they have struggled at times. There recent success is from development of personnel from drafts and trades. West was a free agent signing. Good blend and a home grown young coach.

Nalod - exactly

Whether Dolan listens to his buddies on celebrity row, or plays the role of the kid screaming for candy in WalMart, he does not have the discipline to see past today.

His is a culture of entitlement.

You lose. You throw a tantrum. Incremental progress is measured in weeks, instead of years.

Welcome to New York.

Nalod wrote:
To a lessor extend, Indy has done a similar thing. While it has not yielded a championship they seem to recover form its mistakes. They got hoodwinked by Isiah but figured a way to come back. Financially they have struggled at times. There recent success is from development of personnel from drafts and trades. West was a free agent signing. Good blend and a home grown young coach.

“(Indiana) is a pretty good team right now, and we’re still a team that’s learning on the fly.”

- Joe Johnson, Brooklyn nets

You read and hear story after story about a team buying into their coach's outlook, plan, vision, attitude, etc.
Indy with the young, brash coach with the young, brash team.
SanTone with the intelligent, team-first coach and the intelligent, team-first team.

What is Woody's stance? I get a vaguely dispassionate "you better get the job done or your done" vibe. How does a team buy into this?
Or maybe that's not his stance?

What does Woody have to sell? What is he enabled to sell by our perrenial troll of the year owner?

jrodmc wrote:You read and hear story after story about a team buying into their coach's outlook, plan, vision, attitude, etc.
Indy with the young, brash coach with the young, brash team.
SanTone with the intelligent, team-first coach and the intelligent, team-first team.

What is Woody's stance? I get a vaguely dispassionate "you better get the job done or your done" vibe. How does a team buy into this?
Or maybe that's not his stance?

What does Woody have to sell? What is he enabled to sell by our perrenial troll of the year owner?

When the top man starts issuing "Win or Else" edicts, you can conclude that he has very little to sell. My question is, how deep must we fall before we are rescued?

Sangfroid wrote:

jrodmc wrote:You read and hear story after story about a team buying into their coach's outlook, plan, vision, attitude, etc.
Indy with the young, brash coach with the young, brash team.
SanTone with the intelligent, team-first coach and the intelligent, team-first team.

What is Woody's stance? I get a vaguely dispassionate "you better get the job done or your done" vibe. How does a team buy into this?
Or maybe that's not his stance?

What does Woody have to sell? What is he enabled to sell by our perrenial troll of the year owner?

When the top man starts issuing "Win or Else" edicts, you can conclude that he has very little to sell. My question is, how deep must we fall before we are rescued?

Rescued? By Steve Mills? The new rookie commish?

Or god forbid, IT?

the truth is the Knicks are poorly run and poorly managed.

Fired the GM after 54 wins and the first division win in a decade plus.

Jeremy Lin would be our best guard now and cheap, but instead this organization publicly courted Steve Nash then acted shocked and dismayed and Lin found his own contract (hows that team doing?)

JR Smith is an epic dummy with a long track record of being an epic dummy. You have to fail 3x before you get suspended for drug use, anyone want to wager when the next is coming? Then we waste a roster spot on his talentless donkee of a brother.

The truth is the Knicks are poorly run, and what you saw last year was a talented player have a monster year and propell the Knicks to a good record and the second round. Now we are back to wondering what went wrong. Same thing that always does in Knicksland...

Continuity

San Antonio just defeated the Sixers by 24

Popovich has been with the Spurs for 16 years.

Who is the longest tenured Knicks coach during the Cablebision years?

Dantoni? LOL

jrodmc wrote:You read and hear story after story about a team buying into their coach's outlook, plan, vision, attitude, etc.
Indy with the young, brash coach with the young, brash team.
SanTone with the intelligent, team-first coach and the intelligent, team-first team.

What is Woody's stance? I get a vaguely dispassionate "you better get the job done or your done" vibe. How does a team buy into this?
Or maybe that's not his stance?

What does Woody have to sell? What is he enabled to sell by our perrenial troll of the year owner?

The only thing he ever had to sell was that he would suck Melo's ass and make sure that everyone else sucks Melo's ass.

Seriously. That's the truth. He is the perfect coach for Dolan and Melo because he would not rub Melo the wrong way and everyone could go on living in their pretty delusion.